I wonder if those people who aren't happy with traditional firearms (that use gunpowder) would be ok with some funky steam-powered guns then...
I don't know that I have a problem with guns in Thief per se, so much as a lack of confidence in modern trends in game making to implement them in a way that would appeal to me.
I think as long standing fans of a long standing fiction you develop this sense (rightly or wrongly) of ownership (in the same sense that you develop a sense of ownership to the place that you grew up and have an emotional interest in the place - even though you don't literally own it with actual cash) - and there's no sense from Eidos Montreal that they're interested in the kinds of things that I or anyone else might like to see in a future Thief game.
I'm not saying that it's right or wrong or that EM are bad because of it and I've no idea if T4 will be awesome or awful or appeal to me or not. But I think that's the thinking behind the bitching about T4. I don't think it's omg guns - so much as I don't trust you to make a good job of this thing that I've got an emotional stake in and omg now there are guns.
p.s. and to be fair to EM because I don't want to bash them, even though I disagree with Fett that DX:HR is a good sign simply because it's such a different kind of experience to what I'd hope a thief game might be, I do think that Eidos Montreal have shown that they're more competent than most with DX:HR
Last edited by jay pettitt; 29th Apr 2012 at 08:55.
I just stumbled upon as clear as I can find example as to what worries me about the direction Thief 4 might be going in (not that anyone knows what direction it's going in) by comparing two interviews over at Sneaky Bastards.
Here's what Arkane's Harvey Smith (ex Looking Glass) and Raf have to say about what makes Stealth awesome:
Raf: "The great thing about stealth gameplay is the feeling of being somewhere I’m not allowed to be. The excitement that arises from the fear of getting caught, feeling like a predator. All of these things are emotions that we all felt as kids, playing hide and seek, or sneaking in the ‘forbidden’ room of the house."
Harvey: "Yes, totally. And in games, there’s something satisfying about the tension that comes from toying with imperfect AI awareness, knowing that a stressful moment can turn violent. I’ve heard some of the guys who worked on Thief say, “surfing the edges of the AI’s awareness,” and “sublime tension.” Both are great ways of summing up the experience of playing those games, which are among some of our favorites."
Raf: "Also, we both really love eavesdropping on characters in the world, gathering little bits of color."
In short - for those two it's the fantasy of being somewhere you shouldn't be and the fear of getting caught.
Now here's Eidos Montreal's Jean-Francois Dugas - game director on Deus Ex: Human Revolution answering the same question...
Jean-Francois: "The fantasy of being invisible, to be the one who can see but nobody knows I’m there. The feeling that I can take you out, and there’s nothing you can do about it."
I'm not saying one of those is right and the other wrong (though I could have a try) - but I think when it comes specifically Thief, it's traditionally been more about the sort of vibes that Raf and Harvey are discussing and only a little about Jean Francis' take on stealth where it's about being cool and having power and the upper hand over your enemies. There's a little bit of the latter for sure, but for me Thief is more about being somewhere where I'm not allowed to be , and then being nosey. A game that's predominantly about the power-trip of being stealthy might trade clinically on what would be a faded brand name, but wouldn't otherwise be recognisable as a Thief game to my mind.
Last edited by jay pettitt; 29th Apr 2012 at 10:36.
Yeah, that's kinda what I'm getting at. The two share a lot of things, but the way they emphasise and prioritise those different elements is what gives them their character. I'd be sorry to see Thief become more like Splinter Cell - for it to become more about taking out and circumventing guards than it is about being nosey in forbidden locations.
Yandros &jay pettit: Yep!
Also, what Dia said.
I'm not sure it describes Splinter Cell, specifically. Certainly Conviction, and perhaps the first game in the series. But in Chaos Theory I not only killed absolutely no one... I actually prevented the main antagonist from taking his own life!
If you changed the costumes they were wearing, could it have been a Thief game?
Speaking of which, who is the lead designer on this thing? It was mentioned a while ago if I recall correctly, but I've forgotten.
Last edited by Ostriig; 30th Apr 2012 at 13:30.
No T4 news here, but if you back this Kickstarter project you might hear Stephen Russell's and Terri Brosius' voices http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...986-reborn-v20
I do not know if you've already seen these
just something usual in most popular. screenshot.
sorry if you've already posted.
Hey, IronEagle. Thanks, but yeah, we talked it to death back when it first showed up. EM had just remodeled their home page, with a timeline history of the company, and that image was there in the QA section, along with a bunch of blurred shots of general game-testing. When we started picking it apart, the image was removed form the page, leaving a ragged hole that wasn't repaired for months. Since then, they've remodeled the home page many time right before, during, and after DX:HR's release.
You know about these, right?
But yeah, we've gone totally pathological all over this stuff, though any news is welcome, regardless of reaction[ary "zomg hysteria"].
This would be a good time to remind those who don't come around much, to change their settings to show the forum index from the beginning, since most threads have fallen off into the thread Necromancy void.
and This ?
Strangely enough, I drove past that church exactly a week ago.
since you are the inhabitants of this thread. I have not followed much the story about a Thief 4. you can please make me a quick summary, the novelty of the game,
for example I know of a grappling hook. and I'm fine (better than nothing)
possibly a gun (as in A. Creed, to make it more enjoyable for young people, I personally think that a game as a thief, should not be modified in any way)
Water, ? garrett can swim. or use a gondola with a mark of a glyph above?
According to those sessions of play, seems that the character is slightly to the left (as in cold fear, cinviction)
There will be the first person?
I haven't been following the Thief 4 "news" or the discussion here on TTLG that closely either, to be honest, but I'm afraid that me and you will just have to wait for some more information from official sources, before we know anything at all about the game...
I'm doing a mission for T3, I was inspired by this beautiful church. inside of the map is part of this church. this church has in different styles.