TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46

Thread: Proper Stars

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Sunny Finland

    Proper Stars

    EDIT: Done. See this post. Also, t2skies.

    I spun off from this thread, and here's where I've gotten to.

    Before:


    After:


    Here's a full-sized screenshot.

    These are the brightest 30000 stars from the Tycho-2 Catalogue, correctly oriented. (Polaris to the north, etc.)

    Just three more problems.

    Firstly, for this to work, one of the newsky stars parameters has to be set to a large value. Looks like it's almost trivial to patch at least in the OMs and I don't expect FMs to be any different.

    Secondly, the dark side of the moon doesn't occlude the stars. Fixable with new textures, which I might work on next if I get the rest of this working. Didn't someone already make better moon textures?

    But thirdly and most importantly, three of the OMs have stars in a different orientation. How do I control that? There's no option in Dromed to control the orientation of newsky stars. The information must nevertheless exist in the mis files.
    Last edited by jermi; 10th Apr 2010 at 15:42. Reason: Pointer.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2009
    Location: The shades behind you
    Oh... I liked the somehow snake in the middle... I prefer with wrong stars...

    (because I'm an originals-fanatic )
    Hey taffers!1d+++1g+++2+++3+ H+++M+++N+++R+++T++U+Z+G++L-O=P-Q+I-K-A++B+D=X+++J++S-W++Y++C=>++E+F-V-(+)BONE+++ASSN+++LOST+++BUSH+++LIFE+++CARG+++RECV-

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    Which 3 OMs have different orientation?

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Location: Sweden
    Are you talking about DromEd's north or the compass' north?
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "magnetical" northpole is sometimes offset to the "actual north".
    That could make it look like the sky has switched orientation.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    Yep, if you're talking about Eavesdropping, Blackmail, Casing and Masks, then its because of the settings under Editors-> Mission Parameters-> Automap Info-> Compass offset (in degrees 0-359)

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: Coming in from the cold...
    Being the grumpy old man here, but Thief is not taking place on Earth or even in our universe, so the stars should not be the same either. With this in mind, I prefer the "before" stars. I don't want to be reminded of our world when playing Thief.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Drinking baby lemonade!
    Although I realize how much work you must have put into this, and it's neat seeing Orion in a Thief screenshot, I have to agree with qolelis here.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by qolelis View Post
    Thief is not taking place on Earth or even in our universe
    Maybe not Earth, but AFAIK there is no reference to Thief not being in our universe. I still find it odd that the combat bot mentions being here on Earth in one of it's Alert Zero broadcasts. Since the stars are seriously far away, how does one know that a similar view won't be seen in the next galaxy? Thief missions with a moon always have our moon.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: thief.wikia.com
    The evidence points to it being an Alt-universe Earth, it has a lot of "Earth" stuff. Obviously not everything is the same.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Sxerks View Post
    The evidence points to it being an Alt-universe Earth, it has a lot of "Earth" stuff. Obviously not everything is the same.
    Hardly conclusive. The 'original concept' was for a game called Dark Camelot. A lot of the assets from Dark Camelot simply would have made their way into Thief. Sure they used our moon, but really...some details like that are going to slip through.


    The Thief world itself is not Earth, or an alternate earth. It's another planet and as such the constellations should not match the real world stars.

    I prefer the 'before' stars. Sorry.

  11. #11
    The Architect
    Registered: Dec 1998
    Location: Lyon
    I prefer the Alt-Earth idea, personally. The fact that the moon is identical is enough for me. The use of all of the real astronomical charts puts the argument squarely in the Alt-Earth court, as far as I'm concerned. Nice work on the stars!

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    Hardly conclusive. The 'original concept' was for a game called Dark Camelot. A lot of the assets from Dark Camelot simply would have made their way into Thief. Sure they used our moon, but really...some details like that are going to slip through.


    The Thief world itself is not Earth, or an alternate earth. It's another planet and as such the constellations should not match the real world stars.

    I prefer the 'before' stars. Sorry.
    There are human characters in the game, they measure time in a 12 hr clock, they use human tools etc. The chances to evolve and invent these things independently on two different planets are practically zero. The alternate Earth scenario is more likely IMO.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    The original T2 stars are real Earth stars too - it says so in the NewSky tutorial.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Personally. I've always liked the post-holocaust theory, that Thief is set eons in the future recovering from some event that nearly wiped out civilization. For me that explains the mix of "magic" (sufficiently advanced technology), "high tech" (electricity, steam power, &ct.), and "low tech". It also explains the mutated animals (genetically engineered exploding frogs as a military weapon, for example).

    It works for me.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by qolelis View Post
    Being the grumpy old man here, but Thief is not taking place on Earth or even in our universe, so the stars should not be the same either. With this in mind, I prefer the "before" stars. I don't want to be reminded of our world when playing Thief.
    This.

    It's a fictional setting, it shouldn't have the same stars as we see in reality.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Sunny Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Sxerks View Post
    Yep, if you're talking about Eavesdropping, Blackmail, Casing and Masks, then its because of the settings under Editors-> Mission Parameters-> Automap Info-> Compass offset (in degrees 0-359)
    That explains a lot. Unfortunately that means I won't be able to put the stars in their proper orientation in those three missions

    The original stars are indeed real stars. The constellations are not very recognizable because the orientations are wrong and they only put in 1500 stars, half of which are of course below the horizon - including Orion, which you can see if you use stars_spin in Dromed.

    Maybe it's not Earth, but the stars are essentially the same, the moon is the same, gravity is the same, atmosphere, animals, plants and people - all pretty much the same. Looks like a lot of the differences are due to mistakes, oversights, technical limitations, artistic license - you know, the top ten game development reasons of getting things wrong. Had they not meant for the stars to be real stars, they would have just generated them randomly.

    I could easily just keep the original stars in their incorrect orientation and add the missing dimmer stars in the same incorrect orientation. But I'd rather do this right.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    This.

    It's a fictional setting, it shouldn't have the same stars as we see in reality.
    Well, with that argument it shouldn't have carrots, cucumbers, apples etc. They are also Earth things Yes Thief is a fiction, but we reflect our own world in it. Some people reflect more, others less. It's really up to the FM author.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    Personally. I've always liked the post-holocaust theory, that Thief is set eons in the future recovering from some event that nearly wiped out civilization. For me that explains the mix of "magic" (sufficiently advanced technology), "high tech" (electricity, steam power, &ct.), and "low tech". It also explains the mutated animals (genetically engineered exploding frogs as a military weapon, for example).

    It works for me.
    OK, now we just have to find the Statue of Liberty! We already have Apes in Dromed

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasmarok View Post
    Well, with that argument it shouldn't have carrots, cucumbers, apples etc. They are also Earth things Yes Thief is a fiction, but we reflect our own world in it. Some people reflect more, others less. It's really up to the FM author.
    That's a stupid argument.
    Most fictional settings are a lot like our real one. Very few people are even capable of conceptualising something like The Gods Themselves, so authors stick close to what they know.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: WearyTaffer
    The thief homeworld is across the universe from our own that was populated in ancient times with humans and many plants and animals from our world via precursor stargates.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasmarok View Post
    OK, now we just have to find the Statue of Liberty! We already have Apes in Dromed
    That's just near-term post holocaust. I'm talking of seriously long-term post halocaust. The Statue of Liberty was dust long before this holocaust, that much long term. The stars have shifted --- to get back on the subject --- that long term!
    Last edited by LarryG; 15th Dec 2009 at 10:29.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    That's a stupid argument.
    Most fictional settings are a lot like our real one. Very few people are even capable of conceptualising something like The Gods Themselves, so AUTHORS STICK CLOSE TO WHAT THEY KNOW.
    Yes, that is EXACTLY my stupid argument. What's wrong with sticking to the human sky? Or is there a rule that you are allowed to use carrots, but not star constellations seen from the Earth?

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by NightRanger View Post
    The thief homeworld is across the universe from our own that was populated in ancient times with humans and many plants and animals from our world via precursor stargates.
    I hardly can wait for Dr Jackson appearing in one of the FMs But that argument is not bad. Did the keepers know about the stargate? Did they hide it with their glyphs from the general population? Now that the glyphs are gone, the gate could be found. I smell a sequel..... STARGATE THIEF
    Last edited by Vasmarok; 15th Dec 2009 at 11:52.

  24. #24
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    i made a working star gate with a dialing sequence on earth, ka-woosh effect, alien world and operating dhd. all the chevrons lit up and the top one moves up and down, the inner rings can spin. so dr. jackson could appear easily. but its such a knock of a well known and highly protected copyrighted work that i haven't finished it.

    i'd like to implement those stars. they are really nice, and appropriate.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: WearyTaffer
    i made a working star gate with a dialing sequence on earth, ka-woosh effect, alien world and operating dhd. all the chevrons lit up and the top one moves up and down, the inner rings can spin. so dr. jackson could appear easily. but its such a knock of a well known and highly protected copyrighted work that i haven't finished it.

    i'd like to implement those stars. they are really nice, and appropriate.
    Just use keeper glyphs instead of the gate chevrons! I'd love to see that!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •