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Thread: T2 FM: The Sun Within and The Sun Without v1.3 (December 23rd, 2009)

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Sedlec Ossuary
    Urumo: thanks for secrets list (I would ask about it anyway).

    "Top room of sun tower: what is the meaning of that loose stone on the ceiling" - you can read it in this thread: if you enter this room from outside you can fire this and break into elements shaft. No other use.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    First of all, a seriously big thanks to Qolelis and all who contributed to this outstanding mission! I'm not finished yet (time invested so far = 2+ hours) & still have the lucky charm to find (thanks for the previous hints, Taffers!) and have about 200 more in loot to find. I have to admit to a certain amount of frustration at some of the jumps & climbs (if I never see another one of those damn beams again I'll be happy! ) and also some confusion with the rope arrows (never thought of using a crate.... duh!) and I also got a tad annoyed with that last area at the bottom of the ladder that ends in the abyss since I was worried that I was missing something important but just COULDN'T make that damned jump! Otherwise I've been enjoying myself tremendously!

    I do have a couple questions:

    1. Do we ever see the guy from the beginning of the mission again, or is he one of the dead thieves?

    2. While standing at the top of the tower & looking out at the biggest huge rock floating next to the rock the tower's on, I noticed what looked like smoke & the top of a fire just over the horizon on that rock. Was I seeing things or is that someplace I can explore (or is that where I started from and I wasn't paying attention again)?

    Thanks again for the Christmas present Qolelis!

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Texas
    I finaly finished this mission. It was pretty dang good. I thought it would be pretty hard throwing the crates, but it wasn't to bad. The learning curve was easier than I thought. Thanks for a nice christmas present.

    Dia:

    1. I will tell you thatyou will see him again, and yes he is dead. Although he is in different places depending on the difficulty.

    2. I think you are seeing the rock you end up on after the first teleport. That may be the spot where the thief is found on normal as there is a fire burning there too.

    I could be wrong but I think thats where you are describing.

    Now that I have finished the mission, can I please get the walkthru? I would really appreciate it.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Baton Rouge, LA.


    Thanxs for this mission. I just loved, loved, loved it. Very hard tho and confusing at first. I played it three times already and will play again.

    Thanxs again,

    Hope Vincent

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: swirling in the night wind
    This mission was to die for - At one point I started I throwing myself into the void just because dying was fun! Played on expert and spent almost 2 hours looking for about 1,000 missing loot - didn't find much more, but had great fun exploring. Discovered ony 2 secrets out of five. This is one of a those rare missions that can be played again and still be lots of fun.

    Three questions:
    Will my experiences be different if I play on different Difficulty Levels?
    Has anyone managed to open the second emergency door (set of 2)?
    Can the airlock be discovered/entered?

  6. #56
    I've been away over Christmas and just want to start by thanking everyone for playing and for all the nice comments I'm glad you enjoyed it - it makes everything (all the headaches and the sleepless nights) totally worth it.

    Thanks to Tannar for stepping in and answering a lot of questions while I was away. A couple of days off did me good.

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    I realize now that what had me stumped for so long was I didn't try to shoot the locked panels depicting elements spirits with elemental arrows. Bloody hell, that puzzle was introduced in The Lost City, right?
    I haven't visited the Lost City either in a while, but I remember that the elemental faces are introduced and presented in connection with the four elements. I wanted to pay homage to TDP, so I tried to imitate the style.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    qolelis, I'm on Windows XP with Service Pack 2.
    The standard question is: Are you able to make it happen again (i.e. causing a crash when throwing the thief into space below)? If you can make it happen again and have some time to kill, could you please remove the file called tswtsw.osm from your Thief-folder (the folder into which you install TSWTSW) and then try causing the crash again? There is a small small chance that there is something wrong with my custom scripts module (tswtsw.osm). There is also a small chance that the crash won't happen again.

    Removing the osm-file will cause the ropecrates (and all float effects + possibly some of the teleports) to stop working, but you should be able to use the first teleport and find the thief who stole Garrett's lucky charm on Normal - and then throw him into space.

    By no means do you have to do this; I'm just mentioning it and you can do it if you want and can. I've never experienced those crashes myself, but two of my betatesters have had crashes (not in that particular spot, though), that later stopped occurring, so it's hard for me to test.

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    I finished all objectives except the loot goal. In need 1800 in loot and I got 1785. I looked everywhere and even found a secret, a small crystal hidden underneath two rocks below where the thief died. Which particular piece of loot could be so cleverly hidden that Ive missed it?
    You may already have found the last piece of needed loot, but I'll give some hints anyway:
    • The stargazer writes about finding a special white metal (what we would call silver) that he thinks is useless on the "asteroid" on which his tower is found, in his diary. Explore the outsides after you have freed the star, because then you won't have to worry about the shooting sun. The silver nuggets are mostly hidden in crevices.
    • The stargazer also writes about his new telescope that he built from "that yellow metal" (what we would call gold). Making the telescope loot might be a bit unpexpected.
    • Did you find the secret entrance in the transportation shaft? There is a button to find there.

    Ask again and I can give you more hints.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Congrats on the release! Anxious to fire it up tonight. Mirrored it over at the Southquarter download page too.
    Thanks for the mirror! I'll update my first post. I uploaded it before release to your site. Did that work?

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    This is a mission for hardened explorers who aren't intimidated by difficult climbs and devilish loot placement.
    Thanks for your review - and you are probably right about the difficult climbing - I've gotten so used to it myself, so I know it inside and out (I have played through it probably tens of times).

    As far as I understood, the portal in the Lord's crypt teleports you to a giant piece of rock surrounding the remains of the tower of a Precursor stargazer. Somehow, it was ripped out of the earth and teleported to a nameless limbo. Did I miss a readable that details how the tower ended up in limbo along with the sun?


    There are some clues in-game about what happened here, but maybe not that many. There are some extra hidden screenshots showing outtakes, that might give you more clues.


    If you find the basketball (which is not even remotely close to where you might think it is), you will also find a rather big clue.

    The stargazer should mention something about it too.

    In short I can say that something really bad happened to cause all this, but the former inhabitants did kind of (indirectly or directly) cause it themselves.

    Who is the thief that died in a shaft with the red lights and a broken ladder? The place is above the wall with the Precursor messages. I did not find anything to identify him. Dying alone in a place like this, not knowing in which forsaken, derelict place you are, and no way to get back, that's just a terrible thought. For some reason, this had a strong emotional impact on me.
    He is one of the thieves who tried to rob Abdjilan's crypts and never came back. The briefing talks about how Garrett couldn't find anyone who had actually been inside the crypts and there were no maps to find.


    Abdjilan's connection with these "asteroids" will be explained more in the sequel (whenever that gets released). For now it's open for speculation, but some clever guesses could be made perhaps!?

    spoiler:
    I ropecrated down there and after many tries I managed to jump to the remains of a corridor. It looks like there is nothing down there, the door is fake. I have a hard time believing there is really nothing down there since this would be a perfect place for a secret, but there isn't, right?
    Unfortunately no. I had some ideas for it, but I decided to keep it as it is. In my head, that door leads to a very interesting area, but in "reality" there is nothing behind it. The sequel is very likely to contain that area (I haven't even started on the sequel yet and I have other missions in the works that will be released before).


    Quote Originally Posted by redrider View Post
    Can someone give me a hint about where the dead thief and my lucky charm are? I did everything else but can't find the thief. Thanks!
    Hint: On Normal he was killed by the sun and dropped the lucky charm close to where he died.
    Hint: On Hard he was killed in the same place as on Normal, but he dropped the lucky charm in a very unfortunate spot.
    Hint: On Expert he was hurt by the spiders and left a trail of blood.
    Further hint: On Expert you will find the lucky charm close to where the blood trail ends.

    I can give you more hints if you need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingm View Post
    1. Where is the ring?
    2. How do I get to the room above the water room?
    3. I found the dead thief but no charm...where is it?
    4. Where do I get the walkthru by PotatoGuy?
    1. Hint: The ring belongs to the stargazer and where would the best spot be for a stargazer (astronomer) to be found?
    3. See above.
    4. PotatoGuy is working on the walkthrough, but it's not ready yet. I think it could be worth waiting for (there are some (or maybe even a lot of) extra hidden stuff)... While waiting for that, you can always ask in this thread and I will answer as soon as I get a chance (if you haven't already gotten an answer by then form my excellent betatesters or dito players ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirin View Post
    qolelis: this is perfect mission. A lot of new ideas. Congratulation on your excellent work !!!
    I'm glad you liked it. During beta-testing I added a number of extra areas, thanks to my excellent betatesters (whom I can't seem to thank enough), so they are to "blame" too

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirin View Post
    In caves there is an emergency exit "do not block". I can open it by circle high on the wall and get in. But how to open the other side of exit ? Where is the other side ?
    You can only open that from the other side.
    There is a similar sign in another area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urumo View Post
    where is the 5th secret?
    You have to find a button which will open a secret entrance.
    The button is medium-sized and in plain sight, but you will have to do some other things before finding the button.

    Outright spoiler:
    1. Activate the Ring of Clarity inside one of the elemental chambers and you will get access to a new area.
    2. Go to the bottom of that new area and look around.

    The special challange:In his initial post qolelis mentioned a basketball. Has anyone found it? If yes, where can I find it?
    Small hint (LarryG might call it a very small and subtle hint, though ): Lord Abdjilan's secret writing chamber contains something that might seem unimportant at first glance...

    Emergency exits: The first door I've opened - just like Aspirin before me. How can I open the next one? Also in the transportation shaft (earth level) there is a plaque that indicates another emergency exit. Is this one openable? If yes - how?
    Small hint: What could the emergency exit be for? Why is it needed?

    Not so small hint: The normal entrances to the transportation shaft is opened by activating the Ring of Clarity.

    Right out spoiler: Go inside the transportation shaft and drop an important item.

    And finally: Is there maybe a lootlist or walkthrough for this FM? I'm still missing 875 gold
    There is a lootlist, but it will be released together with the walkthrough, which is being worked on. While waiting, you can ask in this thread and I tihnk someone will be able to answer (I will answer as soon as I get a chance). There are some hints in this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dia View Post
    I also got a tad annoyed with that last area at the bottom of the ladder that ends in the abyss since I was worried that I was missing something important but just COULDN'T make that damned jump! Otherwise I've been enjoying myself tremendously!
    That area is not supposed to be accessible and there is nothing to find there, but there have been reports about people getting there anyway. You're only reward is that you get to brag about it

    1. Do we ever see the guy from the beginning of the mission again, or is he one of the dead thieves?
    I think you will understand when you find the lucky charm.

    2. While standing at the top of the tower & looking out at the biggest huge rock floating next to the rock the tower's on, I noticed what looked like smoke & the top of a fire just over the horizon on that rock. Was I seeing things or is that someplace I can explore (or is that where I started from and I wasn't paying attention again)?
    You were not seeing things... That fire is a clue.

    Quote Originally Posted by redleaf View Post
    This is one of a those rare missions that can be played again and still be lots of fun.
    I can tell you that there is a lot of extra hidden stuff (other than the official 5 secrets) and in very unusual places at times... I expect only the most stubborn explorers to find them... (consider yourself challenged... ).

    Will my experiences be different if I play on different Difficulty Levels?
    Has anyone managed to open the second emergency door (set of 2)?
    Can the airlock be discovered/entered?
    1. Slightly. Some things are in different places and one objective will be a bit more involved. Normal has no spiders... There are also less clues and less helpful items on higher difficulties. One teleporter takes you to different places on different difficulties.
    2. See spoilers above.
    3. No. You are not supposed to, anyway.
    Last edited by qolelis; 27th Dec 2009 at 15:13.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by qolelis View Post
    (Issue with mission crashing.)
    I can confirm the crash happens every time I throw the thief into the space below. I also did try removing tswtsw.osm. On the first try, I fell off the rock myself. The screen went black, but I didn't die. After reloading the mission, I managed to hurl the thief off of the rock and successfully crashed the mission again.

    Quote Originally Posted by qolelis View Post
    You may already have found the last piece of needed loot, but I'll give some hints anyway:
    Thanks, I have already finished the mission, but your hints will come in handy on the next playthrough.

    Quote Originally Posted by qolelis View Post
    Thanks for your review - and you are probably right about the difficult climbing - I've gotten so used to it myself, so I know it inside and out (I have played through it probably tens of times).
    I hope what I wrote didn't come across as a complaint. The difficult climbs are some of the best parts of the mission. I felt really satisfied with myself after finally reaching the roof of the sun tower. Afterwards, the transportation shaft allows easy access to almost all levels of the tower without having the repeat the climbs, which is a good idea. The only thing that annoyed me was constantly getting killed and blown off the rock by deadly sunrays.

    Quote Originally Posted by qolelis View Post
    There are some clues in-game about what happened here, but maybe not that many. There are some extra hidden screenshots showing outtakes, that might give you more clues.
    I like the mystery aspect of the mission, it got my brain thinking. This is in my view another strong aspect of the mission. I guess now I have to replay the mission and find all the secrets.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: Switzerland

    qolelis:

    Thank you very much for your answers. I will have a look at it tonight.

    Cheers

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    I can confirm the crash happens every time I throw the thief into the space below. I also did try removing tswtsw.osm. On the first try, I fell off the rock myself. The screen went black, but I didn't die. After reloading the mission, I managed to hurl the thief off of the rock and successfully crashed the mission again.
    Okay, thanks for trying that; then I at least know that the osm is okay. I've asked my beta-testers to try and make this crash happen. Could you please try two more things (same disclaimer as before)?

    1. Try throwing other stuff into space; both other AIs and various objects. Try shooting arrows into space (down, up and to the sides). Fire arrows are most likely to reach the sides and the top.
    2. This one is more work and might not fix the problem at all (I've had situations where it has helped, though. I don't really think it will help in this situation, but it could be worth a try): Try creating a fresh Thief-folder with files unchanged directly from the discs (by for example installing Thief again in a new location) and no additions like ddfix or other extra files. Then unzip TSWTSW directly into this fresh new folder. Start thief by double-clicking thief2.exe and then start TSWTSW. Try throwing the thief into space again (and maybe request #1 too).


    Has anyone else experienced this crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by
    I hope what I wrote didn't come across as a complaint. The difficult climbs are some of the best parts of the mission. I felt really satisfied with myself after finally reaching the roof of the sun tower. Afterwards, the transportation shaft allows easy access to almost all levels of the tower without having the repeat the climbs, which is a good idea.
    I wasn't sure if you thought it was too difficult or just difficult in a good way. Thanks for the clarification. I like the climbing myself, even if I know all the routes. If you start down in the caves, there are a number of alternative routes up to the stargazer's chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    The only thing that annoyed me was constantly getting killed and blown off the rock by deadly sunrays.
    Yeah, the sun is a little angry

    Quote Originally Posted by
    I like the mystery aspect of the mission, it got my brain thinking. This is in my view another strong aspect of the mission. I guess now I have to replay the mission and find all the secrets.
    Good luck!

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by qolelis View Post
    Try shooting arrows into space (down, up and to the sides). Fire arrows are most likely to reach the sides and the top.
    I tried shooting fire, water and rope arrows down, up and to the sides. This didn't crash the mission. I hurled a ropecrate down in the the void. Again, the mission didn't crash. Then I dragged the dead thief from near the office out into the open and off the rock. This time the mission crashed immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by qolelis View Post
    by for example installing Thief again in a new location
    Sorry, I only got one of the discs at hand and can't do a full reinstall right now, but thanks for all your suggestions!

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    I tried shooting fire, water and rope arrows down, up and to the sides. This didn't crash the mission. I hurled a ropecrate down in the the void. Again, the mission didn't crash. Then I dragged the dead thief from near the office out into the open and off the rock. This time the mission crashed immediately.
    Thanks for testing. I sent you a PM.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Location: ..is everything. UK
    Just to add to the positive comments from others, I've thoroughly enjoyed this new gameplay and thoughtful mission and am looking forward to the next installment. Well done, a fabulous Xmas present!

  13. #63
    I'll chime in with what has been said. This is a truly brilliant mission.

    First go through got me roughly 3600 loot after 1 hour, 50 minutes and furious saving/reloading. Second go through got me 3855 loot after 1 hour and 30 minutes (and a lot less saving/reloading).

    Now I have a few questions:

    # After I found a use for a rat's corpse, I have to ask: Is there a similar use for Dewdrop somewhere?

    # I noticed that one of the big floating rocks tends to float right in front of the sun without, like an eclipse. Does this play into anything special?

    # I actually managed to anger the lightkeeper's ghost (by setting off a powder keg a little too near him) and make him attack me. He also became "corporeal" and I could attack him. Am I supposed to be able to do that?

    # What's with the teleporter outside the tower that's supposed to take me to the mines? All I get is a disembodied voice saying "Look out!" and nothing happens.

    # I've found all the secrets except the "challenge" one. Any further hints you'd be willing to give out?

    (The above questions all relate to "Expert" difficulty, BTW.)

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    I'm happy to see so many people are so enthusiastic - I had a lot of fun during testing and was anxious to see some responses here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unkillable Cat View Post
    # After I found a use for a rat's corpse, I have to ask: Is there a similar use for Dewdrop somewhere?
    Yes, there is a use for dewdrop. It's really good hidden, and you'll probably like the use, but I won't give a hint yet. I think Qolelis wants this to be hidden for a while.

    # I noticed that one of the big floating rocks tends to float right in front of the sun without, like an eclipse. Does this play into anything special?
    Not really. It can help you by catching some of the sun's fire bolts on spots where you need it, but that's all.

    # I actually managed to anger the lightkeeper's ghost (by setting off a powder keg a little too near him) and make him attack me. He also became "corporeal" and I could attack him. Am I supposed to be able to do that?
    Hey, how would you feel if someone attacks your previous body? He got some temper!

    # What's with the teleporter outside the tower that's supposed to take me to the mines? All I get is a disembodied voice saying "Look out!" and nothing happens.
    Qolelis wanted this to be open for guessing, but here were his thoughts: You can set the wheel to 'village' to go to the residential asteroid. However, this asteroid has been destroyed already and you can't be teleported to that place anymore. You hear something that happened in the past: someone screams just before the sun attacks that asteroid.

    # I've found all the secrets except the "challenge" one. Any further hints you'd be willing to give out?
    I'm not sure which one is the challenge one, but I got a feeling it's the one on the surface of the tower asteroid. Search the southwest side very carefully.
    Last edited by PotatoGuy; 28th Dec 2009 at 13:47.

  15. #65
    # I've found all the secrets except the "challenge" one. Any further hints you'd be willing to give out?
    You will find some clues in a seemingly unimportant and unrelated creation of vice memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoGuy View Post
    I'm not sure which one is the challenge one, but I got a feeling it's the one on the surface of the tower asteroid. Search the southwest side very carefully.
    The first challenge is about finding the basketball.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Texas
    What is the status of the walkthru PotatoGuy? Will it be out soon?

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    There are maybe only some grammar mistakes, lack of hints to hidden things, and possible bad phrasing. Nothing major, so you can use it already. So if you really really really need it right now, I can send the 'beta version' already to you.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoGuy View Post
    Hey, how would you feel if someone attacks your previous body? He got some temper!
    That's odd. I let him watch while I picked up his body, carried it over to the edge of the asteroid, dropped it and let the angry sun hammer at it for a couple of minutes, before picking it up again and tossing it off the edge...and he didn't even break his stride.

    Maybe it's because I just gave him a nice tan and a "round-the-world" trip at no extra cost...

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    I just discovered Qolelis intended you couldn't pick up his body. It wasn't mentioned during beta-progress, so imagine that enormous rock won't let Garrett take that body.

    By the way, there is another way to make him visible. It really comes to use when you want to take care of the spiders. For a hint, read the notes of the mine boss.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Texas
    I want the finished product with all hints and secrets. So when do you think it will be ready? A week? A month? or maybe a year..lol

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    All hints and secrets are presents. The only thing missing in that area are hints for easter eggs. And there only will be hints.

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Texas
    So when I ask again will it be done? lol

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Unlit torches throughout the level...
    Is there any significance to lighting them all?

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    You can use the mushroom flares to make things a little more brighter, that's all.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Thanks...

    Another question
    The powderkeg room. How do I get into it? I got the key early on but the door is blocked off by a rockfall.

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