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Reply With QuoteIts a sensible case. Its also wrong because prior works aren't always good. Spiderman 2 was awesome but thats not going to stop me from calling the first Spiderman movie the pile of horseshit it was.
Originally Posted by TrantaLocked
Don’t worry, no personal insults here. Its clear Bioshock sure has made quite an impact on many people, including you . Now, keep in mind this is someone who completed System Shock 2 after Bioshock due to curiosity.
I have played through Bioshock (many) times, its a brilliant game and deserves the praise it gets. But, if you truly loved Bioshock, you wouldn’t even consider bashing the very game that supplied it with near every single element you know and love.
That’s right, if it wasn’t for (crappy old) System Shock 2, big bad Bioshock wouldn’t even exist…
Bioshock was Ken Levine’s way of reintroducing the elements System Shock 2 never got to present. Because, System Shock 2 from a commercial standpoint, failed…big-time.
Wondering why he took his leave after Bioshock 1 was finished? Presumably, his work was done, he had offered System Shock 2 another chance for success. All it needed was a different name/makeover…and some alterations to make it slightly less complex for the modern masses. Also of course, moderations of gameplay in favour of gaming consoles for more consumer rates.
Coming away from the subject in general, I found many elements that where taken from System Shock 2, not to just exist in Bioshock, but just to exist for the sake of it. One of many being that Spider Splicer organs allow you to heal with a certain Gene Tonic. A supposed twist on the research system in System Shock 2, where you find chemicals inside corpses and combine chemicals for bio-logical weaknesses.
As for the research system in general, the way Bioshock portrays it feels again just a little tacked on. Research took a lot more effort and patience in System Shock 2 due to the chemical combination’s, rather than just taking pictures. Now onto purely gameplay, Bioshock is definitely more dynamically ambitious. But, I actually would say System Shock 2 with its even more complex RPG oriented elements, allowed for far more (options) in general.
Now, since I previously mentioned reused and altered gameplay elements, let me list some basics of many I have discovered…
Plasmids act as the PSI-Powers, supplied by Eve-hypos/PSI-hypos. Gene Tonics act as Cybernetic upgrades, purchased with Adam/Cyber Modules. Both use security cameras, turrets, generally hostile robotics and the ability to hack. Both use ammo-types, modifiable weaponry and a research system. Both use ghost images, audio tapes to tell the story. The style of the plot twist is also very similar. I could go on forever.
Now as for the story, this is quite an interesting parallel...
1 = Shodan creates something (The Many), loses control of it, there is a bloody conflict. You, an amnesiac are tasked with helping Polito (who is secretly Shodan) perform a series of tasks, as her puppet. Towards the end of the game it is revealed that you have become her cybernetic monster. You destroy The Many and go on to destroy Shodan…
2 = Andrew Ryan creates something (Rapture) and loses control of it, there is a bloody conflict. You, an amnesiac, are tasked with helping Atlas (who is secretly Fontaine) perform a series of tasks, as his puppet. Towards the end of the game, it is revealed that you are his genetic monster. You destroy Ryan and go on to destroy Fontaine…
Interesting, eh? So, in all of this babbling this is what im trying to say. Bioshock is a brilliant game, but if you truly love it, you should be on your knees and kissing Shodans assFarewell.
Last edited by LookAtYouHacker; 9th Mar 2010 at 21:38.
Its a sensible case. Its also wrong because prior works aren't always good. Spiderman 2 was awesome but thats not going to stop me from calling the first Spiderman movie the pile of horseshit it was.
Of all the stupid threads to resurrect, why did you noobs have to resurrect THIS one?
Technically research in System Shock 2 in its basest form involved finding one of the chemical storage rooms that wandering Many didn't come into and sitting there to let the research timer run down, so I'm not sure that's a terribly great advert for the (undoubted) increased complexity of that game over BioShock.
Besides, Shock 1 was much better. (THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT)
What sort of bonehead sat there like a lemon while research was going on? You're supposed to grab the chems you need, then go about your business and pop in each chem as your MFD asks for it.
.. so what was that article in the gameinformer magazine all about?
In its basest form, ZB, in comparison to BioShock requiring you to go out and actually do something for your research bonus. Obviously my description was an exaggeration to provide a counterpoint to LAYH's assertion that the system took more 'effort' than in BioShock, but I maintain it is a perfectly viable description nonetheless.
Well, the main problem was, since they'd scrapped the entire inventorysystem of ss2, gathering those would've made little sense anymore, which is why bioshock is more of a shooter again, and less of a survival horror rpg like ss.
as ZB put it: you grab what you need, since you dont have room carrying it all around.
ss2 gave us choices, bioshock just rid the choices and let you get all items and powerups.
I want a new systemshock to be survival horror again, not a shooter with style.
I’ve never had the pleasure of playing System Shock 1, but I hope to play it one day. Anyway, onto System Shock 2's research system and my (assertion).
Chemical rooms in general are located all around the Von Braun, and not (all) chemical rooms harness the correct chemicals you need.
So, most of the time, you end up backtracking from using up chemicals in specific areas. Even to the point, of travelling in-between the decks and possibly encountering more enemies by respawn.
Certain items that are capable of research, also take longer to identify than others, so much so you end up practically continuing with the game just to past the time. Also, you need to upgrade your research skills to even begin researching certain items AND find the appropriate software!
Now, even though Bioshock 1’s research system in my opinion may be tacked on as an element to be recognized, I will say that Bioshock 2’s research system (is) interesting and makes more sense. Since you first have to activate the camera, then start inflicting varieties of in-game damage to enemies in the process of recording. Now, that takes a lot more effort.
Last edited by LookAtYouHacker; 14th Mar 2010 at 03:05.
bioshock2 research was even more lazy than bs1. there was nothing to do for it. I researched each and every splicer and brute in the very level I got the camera. got big sisters and alpha at the same time later and never had to use it again. I just had the camera running CONSTANTLY. hit 6+fire, go around until camera is out, hit 6+fire, rinse+repeat. 4 fights later you are done. Nothing to worry about, no surprises, big sisters are scripted so you just pop in every research tonic, deliver the little sister, hit 6+fire and go to town. BS2 was better than BS1 because it knew it's just a shooter and got rid of all the other RPG crap that hindered the shooting. Does it make the game then comparable to SS2 or 1 ? NO. it's a completely different genre with almost no overlapping areas due to cutting and streamlining. It's just a better dressed up shooter and it's tension comes from totally different points of view. SS2 had the survival one can kill me feeling while BS2 was like: I SQUASH YOU YOU LITTLE MINIONS. I WADE THROUGH YOU. all the "bossfights" could be controlled by the player so it certainly wasn't a hard game. It went for chaos and mayhem and this it did good. I like BS2 because it is less BS1 in its mechanics and even more shooter. It just should have not banked on the SystemShock heritage, that was its gravest mistake imo. And yeah, repeating the same story with the same plotpoints and twists (atlas) is just SOOOOOO lame.
Your wait is over.
System Shock Portable
System Shock mouselook/key mapping/high resolution mod
Me too played BS once to never look back at it, harvested all little sisters too.
My biggest issue with BS is the its epoch, the time period, if they would make it SciFi esque I probably would have liked it better. Charleston and Foxtrot, 20's hairstyle, ancient weapons and furniture do not excite my imagination the way space ship close corridors, exotic weapons, ET alien live forms do.
I consider DeadSpace much more spiritual successor to SS2 than Bioshock.
Bioshock immersion was spoiled for me because I could not identify myself with that particular time set, I didn't cared about getting in to the story, learning what happened or who is who and simply aimed and shot my way to the next level.
How long are we going to rant about the lack of SS3 in our lives?
Hmm...
Seems pretty obvious to me Dead Space began its development as a sequel to System Shock. It's damn good as well. Almost shocking that EA didn't just plaster System Shock all over it to sell a few more copies. Coff, X-Com, Coff, Coff...
Ahem... excuse me. Point is you don't need a retro-sensational, nostalgia name on the box to relive a certain kind of experience. It's better in fact to be surprised by a fresh IP.
What d'ya think?
I'm thinking that digging up a three-month-old thread as your first post was probably not very smart.
heh i signed up to reply to the reply lol....
just finished playing system shock 2 - been a while! i've also played both bioshocks as well - yes i like bioshock, graphics are great n all that, storys interesting etc...but i still got shivers playing ss2 - i've just opened the inventory to listen to a log and suddenly i'm being attacked from behind...and almost shat myself when i first encounter shodan herself...atmosphere is what counts, look at the movies these days - all big budget graphics, cgi and explosions but less on the story, the atmosphere. freelancer had its bugs/issues but still has that atmosphere so i'll keep playing it untill they re-do it!.
saw the trailer for system shock 3 - looking forward to it even though it looks like a fallout 3 copy
You what?
he signed up to reply to the reply lol
Yeah, awesome trailer. Any word on whether Daft Punk will make the music for this one?
Their work on the first Tron sequel was su-su-su-superb.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
20 MINUTES INTO THEFUTURE
<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
system shock 3 you guys are talking about Dead Space right? I just got past the part where you stick the organic poison in the hydroponics deck.
trollface.jpg
Ohh have some faith my lad. It could be done and very well, it's a copyright issue (that and the fact that console games rule and the kiddies have no patience for a good deep game...)
Yes thinking is hard for people who want to move a controller and see pretty pictures. Unfortunately that's not playing a game, that's just pressing buttons and hearing sound and watching pictures. I like games where you actually have to do something.
I would take the inspiration of Bioshock even further pointing out that the world of Rapture (a colony where people could start anew and live together in a utopia that then goes bad) is very much like the plot of Ultima Underworld where their leader tried to do the same thing but things fell into despair. I seem to be the only one who sees that link but I think the Looking Glass legacy has deep roots.Don’t worry, no personal insults here. Its clear Bioshock sure has made quite an impact on many people, including you . Now, keep in mind this is someone who completed System Shock 2 after Bioshock due to curiosity.
I have played through Bioshock (many) times, its a brilliant game and deserves the praise it gets. But, if you truly loved Bioshock, you wouldn’t even consider bashing the very game that supplied it with near every single element you know and love.
That’s right, if it wasn’t for (crappy old) System Shock 2, big bad Bioshock wouldn’t even exist…
Bioshock was Ken Levine’s way of reintroducing the elements System Shock 2 never got to present. Because, System Shock 2 from a commercial standpoint, failed…big-time.
Wondering why he took his leave after Bioshock 1 was finished? Presumably, his work was done, he had offered System Shock 2 another chance for success. All it needed was a different name/makeover…and some alterations to make it slightly less complex for the modern masses. Also of course, moderations of gameplay in favour of gaming consoles for more consumer rates.
Coming away from the subject in general, I found many elements that where taken from System Shock 2, not to just exist in Bioshock, but just to exist for the sake of it. One of many being that Spider Splicer organs allow you to heal with a certain Gene Tonic. A supposed twist on the research system in System Shock 2, where you find chemicals inside corpses and combine chemicals for bio-logical weaknesses.
As for the research system in general, the way Bioshock portrays it feels again just a little tacked on. Research took a lot more effort and patience in System Shock 2 due to the chemical combination’s, rather than just taking pictures. Now onto purely gameplay, Bioshock is definitely more dynamically ambitious. But, I actually would say System Shock 2 with its even more complex RPG oriented elements, allowed for far more (options) in general.
Now, since I previously mentioned reused and altered gameplay elements, let me list some basics of many I have discovered…
Plasmids act as the PSI-Powers, supplied by Eve-hypos/PSI-hypos. Gene Tonics act as Cybernetic upgrades, purchased with Adam/Cyber Modules. Both use security cameras, turrets, generally hostile robotics and the ability to hack. Both use ammo-types, modifiable weaponry and a research system. Both use ghost images, audio tapes to tell the story. The style of the plot twist is also very similar. I could go on forever.
Now as for the story, this is quite an interesting parallel...
1 = Shodan creates something (The Many), loses control of it, there is a bloody conflict. You, an amnesiac are tasked with helping Polito (who is secretly Shodan) perform a series of tasks, as her puppet. Towards the end of the game it is revealed that you have become her cybernetic monster. You destroy The Many and go on to destroy Shodan…
2 = Andrew Ryan creates something (Rapture) and loses control of it, there is a bloody conflict. You, an amnesiac, are tasked with helping Atlas (who is secretly Fontaine) perform a series of tasks, as his puppet. Towards the end of the game, it is revealed that you are his genetic monster. You destroy Ryan and go on to destroy Fontaine…
Interesting, eh? So, in all of this babbling this is what im trying to say. Bioshock is a brilliant game, but if you truly love it, you should be on your knees and kissing Shodans ass
I think Dead Space is a very good game and yes it's more of a spiritual successor to SS2 than BioSUCK (sorry, couldn't resist) I don't think EA figured System Shock is a name worth anything to plaster anywhere. Oblivious fools.
People who do this annoy me so much.
This post marks the point where this thread stopped making any sense.
Now it's retardation about System Shock 3 looking like Fallout 3, and Kolya did something weird, and someone's bitching about console games and I don't know what the fuck.
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