Ecologies and links

[Rainalkar]

Should you find time, could you take a look at a multibrush I created? I'm toying around with ecologies trying to figure them all out, and I encountered some very weird behaviour.
When you open the multibrush you'll see this:

-On the top there are 10x10 objects: spawn markers.
-Just below is a row of random generators. I made them all produce a random item, with 0% chance of getting a no drop. Each of these sends spawnpoint links to ALL of the markers (don't bother to ask me the time I took to do ).
-More below is a row of ecologies. They all have a unique Eco Type, and the same unique type is set on the generators above. Simplicity sake, I made them all with period 0,01, min 1, max 2, random 2. Each of the ecologies sends a sw to the generator just above only, and also sends a sw to a trigger delay just below.
-Next row are trigger delays. I set them all to 0,01. Each sends a sw to a destroy trap below.
-Last row are Destroy traps. They send sw's to the ecology and trigger delay above, except 689 that also sends sw's to all the generators and all the markers.

This is my reasoning of the system:
1.Time=0,00sec
Level starts
2.Time=0,01sec
All ecologies trigger at 0,01 seconds. Since they are set to min 1, max 2 and random 2, they will send a turnon at 0,01 because the ecology count for all is 0. This means that sw's go to all the random generators and trigger delays. Now, we have 13 random generators producing 13 items. There should be a total randomness where each item is spawned in the marker field, and there will not be 2 items spawned on same marker because poplimit is set everywhere. The sw's that went to trigger delays started their ticking of 0,01 seconds each.
3.Time=0,02sec
All ecologies check with 1/2=50% chance whether they will trigger. On average, 6-7 of them trigger and items are created on random positions. Trigger Delays pass on their sw's to Destroy Traps. Each destroy trap immediately returns the sw to the correspondent ecology and trigger delay, destroying them, while destroy trap 689 also destroys all the generators and markers.
4.Time=0,03sec
Nothing left to trigger. In average, 13 + (6-7), so 19-20 items are created.

The problem, this doesn't work. I noticed a lot of strange thing experimenting:
-all spawns are ALWAYS on markers more north. I mean ALWAYS. I never saw a spawn in the lower 50% part of the marker field.
-number of items is far greater then expected
-generators tend to average on some maximum amount: in the upper case it's 4 items
-when I delete all the ecologies save one, say CMs, and set it to period 1,00 sec, min 3, max 10, random 2, trigger delay to 10,5 (so, to get on average 6-7 items), I get always more, like 14-16, and I see them spawned in groups, like 4 at a time. I thought that ecology should spawn always one and only one item when triggered?

Anyway, if you have the time to play with the set, please. You can send it to me modified. I know the system is far from efficient, but that is the last thing on my mind. First it has to work, then I can cut down the objects' number and make it less cpu intensive. In the meantime, I will try some other things, like cutting on markers to try to figure out north side bias and the multiple spawns. Is there a limit in link number leading to/from an object?


You will also need a custom gamesys, since some ecologies produce some items defined there (a specific number of CMs or nanites), I'm sending that too.


http://www.mediafire.com/?yw5zzminoyz
http://www.mediafire.com/?amzxty1euyk

[Rainalkar]

I made more tests: I left all the markers, but erased all else save 1 ecology and generator.

I set all ecologies to Period=5 so that I can observe the effects. Then I varied min, max, and random values. What I have seen is that items form in clumps. Those clumps will spawn up to the point after which the total amount of items is=>Max.

Case 1
Min=0 Max=5 Rand=2
Test1: 1/1/5
Test2: 1/1/5
Test3: 3/4
Test4: 3/1/5
Test5: 1/3/1

What the numbers mean are the number of items appearing at the same time. For example, test3 had 3 items appearing, then 4, then stopped, because 7>5. Same for all others. My issue is, WHY do items appear in clumps? Why don't they appear one at the time? I always thought that ecology will spawn one and only one item at a time if the maximum isn't reached and with probability 1/Random. Is this correct, and if it isn't what is? Also, how is the upper number of items appearing simultaneously determined? It is NOT bound by Max (as you will see in other test), and it seems to increase with time.

Case 2
Min=0 Max=5 Rand=1
Test1: 2/4
Test2: 2/3
Test3: 3/2
Test4: 2/2/7
Test5: 2/6

There seems to be less clumps spawned with random 1 instead of 2, but more testing is likely required. What does random actually mean? We also have a case in test5 of 7 items appearing at once, more then max.

Case 3
Min=0 Max=10 Rand=1
Test1: 2/4/8
Test2: 1/6/10
Test3: 1/3/4/8
Test4: 2/8
Test5: 3/2/9

Case 4
Min=0 Max=1 Rand=1
Test1: 2
Test2: 3
Test3: 3
Test4: 2
Test5: 2


Oh, and I did figure out that there is a strong preference for spawnpoint links added first, while some will NEVER (it would seem) have a chance of triggering (unless given time for all other markers to fill up of course). I still haven't gotten to detail how all this is determined, and an explanation would be great.

[Zygoptera]

I still reckon your problem is with the number of links you have- I suspect 100 links is likely to run into problems whatever you set the ecology to and that you should try deleting some of the markers and see if the behaviour persists then.

[Rainalkar]

First, I tried leaving 15 markers. Period was 5, min 0, max 1, random 1.
I got 3,3,2,3 items at once.

Then I tried the same with only 5 markers. I got 2,3,1,3 items at once spawned.

All the testing is done on ops2.mis.

[Rainalkar]

And now I did a few tests on other mis files, and the same thing happens. Zygo, I tried gathering all your markers from medsci1 on one place and watched how they fill up. They work correctly, one item is spawned at a time, not entering in probabilities. The only difference I see between us that your markers have tweq>rotate,rotatestate, but I don't see how that can possibly be of any significance.

edit: solved the problem. It was the added script triggerecology to each ecology object that was causing problems.

Moving on: did anyone notice that some items refuse to spawn? I noticed so far that grenades, filled beakers and INT boost never spawn.

Also, a peculiar hint: I made an ecology with period 0,01, min 5, max 5, random 1, so, in theory, it shouldn't need more then a 0,05 secons trigger delay before a destroy trap sw's to it to spawn it's full material, that is 5 objects. This isn't so - I needed to place at least 0,20 period on the trigger delay to ever get 5 items spawning. Just a peculiarity, above is far more significant.

[Zygoptera]

I can spawn all of those listed items.

I presume the funny behaviour of the ecologies (apart from that) is sorted now?

[Rainalkar]

The most important issue is solved. There is still the marker preference thing, but i think i'll manage to at least circumvent it. Same for granades, i think i'll manage. i will let you knów, thank you