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Thread: First Impressions of BS2

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Does it matter?
    6 hours with exploring and you beat it? Really?

    Two and a half hours in and I'm just finishing up Ryan Amusements. So unless I'm 1/3 the way through the entire game, I figure my game time will clock in at far longer than yours.

    Also worth noting I'm playing on hard with vita-chambers off. MUCH harder than BioShock 1. Only died a few times, but I'm running through health and ammo at a rapid pace.

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Massachusetts
    It's taken me more than 6 hours so far, and I'm probably a little past halfway. I don't play this type of game quickly though.

    I'm playing Hard/Vitas off too. finding it harder than the first game for sure, but still not really hard except for certain battles. I'm blowing through a lot of ammo and supplies, but there's a lot lying around.

    Research is a little clumsy, if you don't catch a target unaware. Yes, you have to start filming, and then fight/kill the subject. That's easier said than done with some enemies.

    I like the level design better. They've made better use of vertical space. There's one (very grungy) section that has lots of catwalk and rooftop action. Not quite Life of the Party, but still fun to explore.

    Not much else to report, except that the further I get into this game it becomes more and more... Odd. Well, Rapture is already odd, but there's a steady progression of oddness as I venture from place to place. It's not like the first game, where you go from Steinman's madhouse, then to a fishery and an arboretum, and then into Cohen's playpen, and... you know the rest. There's a buildup taking place. It relies on a lot of contrivances to make you explore the zones (the train car can't proceed for this reason or that, so you have to explore this entire huge place and acquire this Thingy), but the zones have character. Although the one I'm in right now (Siren's Alley) has been a little snoozy, because it's got me boxed into one section while I... Acquire a Thingy.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Dresden View Post
    putting Fire Gun on Left Mouse and Fire Plasmid on Right Mouse, when visually your plasmid hand is on the left and your gun is on the right.
    That bothered me too, don't know why they didn't do like in Undying where the gun is in your left hand nad spells are in your right hand. I know you can change controls and use RMB for weapons, but it would be better if they reversed that.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Massachusetts
    I didn't even think about the handedness thing until Dresden mentioned it, probably because I'm a lefty. It's "right" for me.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Land that youth forgot
    Yes yes, keys blah blah. What about the game? Does it suck?

  6. #31
    is Best Pony
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: The magical land of Equestria
    I've only played about an hour or so for now, but it's looking promising.

    Totally have to stop myself repeating Big Daddy sound effects though

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Its a good game. Levels are very well designed, better than many Bioshock levels. Very good use of architectural space and windows looking back over walkways. Levels are very much lived in now.
    Many nooks and crannies.
    Many "scenes" where survivors tried to "hide" with supplies etc. if you explore.

    GFX feel a bit dated and a bit cartoony at first, till you get into the vibe again.

    One of the weapons is unbalanced, even on hard. Most are carbon copies of BS1 weapons, just reskinned.

    Really becomes fun if you explore every single nook and cranny, like in the first. Only come across one bit where it felt overly linear for a short period, the other areas have plenty of side-rooms and distractions.

    Does feel a bit like a rehash of the first in many respects, but its obvious a lot of care has gone into the levels I have seen.

    turned off "quest arrow" and "Art Subtitles" straight away - very immersion breaking!

  8. #33
    is Best Pony
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: The magical land of Equestria
    Quote Originally Posted by huggster View Post
    turned off "quest arrow" and "Art Subtitles" straight away - very immersion breaking!
    In addition to that I also turned off 'Item Highlight', but I might actually turn it back on as it's a little too hard to spot some stuff for me.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Location: Omicron Persei 8
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Smith View Post
    6 hours with exploring and you beat it? Really?

    Two and a half hours in and I'm just finishing up Ryan Amusements. So unless I'm 1/3 the way through the entire game, I figure my game time will clock in at far longer than yours.

    Also worth noting I'm playing on hard with vita-chambers off. MUCH harder than BioShock 1. Only died a few times, but I'm running through health and ammo at a rapid pace.
    I'll assume that was aimed at my earlier post. If you have finished Ryan Amusements, then you are pretty much 1/3 of the way through - you've completed 3 out of 7 levels. Please remember that I was playing on normal difficulty though. And yes, I think that I explored at least 95% of every map, judging by the fact that all areas in the map had turned white and I got the Rapture Historian Achievement. I did rush through the last level, basically because it was just a massive survival type situation and it was easier to run than confront!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dresden View Post
    Pretty much yes. In the opening, you're killed by the new antagonist. You wake up after the events of BS1 in front of a Vita Chamber. Curiously, you can also use the Vita Chambers again, leading me to believe that there's a very obvious plot twist here.
    The whole reason as to why Delta can use the vita-chambers doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Okay I'm half way through now, siren alley's dragging a little so I stopped.

    It's a good game. And it's better than bioshock cus the levels are much better. The adam mechanics are better. And the crappier weapons/2ndary fire are replaced by more useful weapons/2ndary fire.

    It's still bioshock, as in, a shoot-er, so don't go expecting system. All in all it's just a more refined bioshock. I can definitely see the reviewers, having given +90s, have no conceivable reason to give it a lower score - less they get bitched out of and pimp smacked up.

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Vienna, Austria
    agree.stopped at siren alley after 2 sisters and getting the code. fighting is much better, I invested in telekinesis 2 and electro 2 and both are killer sofar. upgraded the shotty and rivet full. story is ???? sofar, can't say much but I like the half-open levels and the fact that they give you now more time to setup perimeters or know a defendable spot beforehand if the big sister attacks. the left/right is akward imo as well. art is so-so, nothing stands out sofar. but I like the big brute splicers. hypnotize has much better use now because of them

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Yeah watch out though because unlike the first game, if you hypno a Big Daddy, they'll go hostile afterwords.

    I like how ALL of the plasmids have level 3 upgrades now. Even Decoy. And they do added things instead of just greater damage. It makes them a lot more fun to use. I'm on what I assume is the last level and holy crap that was cool. You'll know what I mean when you get there.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jashin View Post
    All in all it's just a more refined bioshock.
    It's interesting to see the progression from SS2, B1, and B2. Each one up the chain is a refined, purified version of the one before it.

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Massachusetts
    Heh. I'm *still* in Siren Alley. Mopping up the little sister stuff, and then I'll leave. You can blow a lot of time in these levels if you want to. I like the second part of that area with all of its ledges way up high, great for messing with stuff down below.

    Another improvement with plasmids, is you have to get version one before you can get version 2, et al. So, what I'm wondering now, is if I don't pick up Winter Blast 1, will it become unavailable at some point, meaning I've basically forsaken that plasmid line? If so, I wouldn't call it a bad thing. It would make choices more important.

    Either way, plasmid investments are more meaningful in this game than in the first.

    I had my run-in with Father Wales. That was another tough, resource draining fight. Subsequent Big Sister fights haven't been as harrowing. I've been luring them into fighting Big Daddies, and then adopting the freshly orphaned Little Sisters.

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Vienna, Austria
    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    It's interesting to see the progression from SS2, B1, and B2. Each one up the chain is a refined, purified version of the one before it.
    i see only progression from bs1 to bs2 with a big wide gap to SS2

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2010
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    It's interesting to see the progression from SS2, B1, and B2. Each one up the chain is a refined, purified version of the one before it.
    Where was the refinement between SS2 and Bioshock 1 (unless sparkly, colourful graphics is all you care about that is ) ? So please tell me what you're smoking, I might want to try some before playing Bioshock 2 ... to enhance the experience.

    If anything the Bioshock games went back a step gameplaywise as they are basically pure shooters now. Still fun but ...

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Done and done-- I Beat the game last night and I deffinitely have a lot of thoughts I need to flesh out so I can type up a conclusion and discuss some things with you guys. I know this isnt the PC gaming forum but really quick I would like to get something off my chest: I experienced a fairly annoying bug in the PC version of the game that was almost a show stopper for me.

    The Q key, be default, is used to rotate through the various plasmids that you currently have equiped. On many occasions (to quantify, probably 25% of the game) my entire left arm (the plamid one) was locked--completely forzen. This means that switching between and/or firing plasmids was not possible. Hitting the Q key did nothing.

    Funny enough, the first few times this happened I chalked it up to gameplay and figured the game was purposely making this happen for narrative reasons, but I soon realized it was a severely disabling bug. I often resolved the issue by reloading the game from an old save, by entering a in-game cinematic like moving on to a new level or by restarting the game.

    It actually wasnt that big of a deal until the game's finale where, as you can imagine, began to frustrate me because nothing I did would fix it--not even restarting the game. I won't spoil anything in the game with the details of the finale but I will say that I completed the final segment of the game (the final boss fight) without using a single plasmid.

    On my way to work (30 min drive) I thought about what happened and it deffinitely sucked, but there was also something poetic about it. When all was said and done and my foes were lying there dead at my feet I stood there triumphant and partially disabled aftering battling against the odds. It was almost fittingly poetic to my adventure in Rapture.

    More to come in a bit...

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ZergMasterBaiter View Post
    Where was the refinement between SS2 and Bioshock
    Bioshock burned away all the unrequired dreck SS2 had, most notably the stat-based crap and the research-through-waiting-around nonsense. Weapon jamming and breaking was removed.

    In general, it was refined through a more proper focus on being a shooter with RPG elements than an RPG with shooter elements. Remember that in Bioshock 1's Gamasutra postmortem, one of the What-Went-Rights was that they threw away their RPG-heavy original version.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Bioshock 2 is an interesting game isnt it? It stands in a tough spot following in the footsteps of what some people consider the greatest first-person shooter to come along in years. But even more interesting is I find that the group that hearily embraced the original, holding it high above their heads mightily exclaiming to the world "See! This is was happens, world, when you accurately marry compelling art with a quality gaming experience!" are now the ones turning their backs to it's sequel unwilling to listen to the story it wishes to tell. But really, who can blame them right? How is it possible that an interesting and compelling experience could come out of Rapture after the first? Well truth be told, I'm a little bit of a hypocrite as I initially found myself in that very group thinking those same things.

    After some thought, though, I realized that I wasnt giving the game a fair chance--I might be missing out on something I could love. I'm happy to say that I come away from playing Bioshock 2 through to completion (roughly 12 hours) feeling fulfilled. Certainly I'm a traiter right? Well all I can do is write what I feel about the game and hope that you can take something away from that that's beneficial.

    In short, I've come to the conclusion that Bioshock 2 is--through a few unfortunate misteps--an really good game. Hold your tomatoes please! To keep things completely spoiler free I won't go into any of the plot of gameplay revelations, but what I will do is tell you confidently that I found the narrative--and the way it unravels--interesting enough to keep pushing forward, but it goes without saying that it's not nearly as interesting as the original.

    I found the gameplay to be more intense and more enjoyable than the original, and this surprised me. I think the ability to duel weild a plasmids and a weapon heightens the intensity of the action to a new level. In addition there are more splicer attacks who're coupled with thicker skin and more powerful attacks (at least it appears that way to me) making it a welcome step-up from the first.

    Personally I had the most fun utilizing the Hypnotize plasmid. At first it just turns other foes against one another--which in itself is extremely entertaining--but eventually you can upgrade it to the point where you can recruit splicers for a few minutes--even the bigger foes! At several points in the game I found myelf surounded by two hacked drones along with, my favorite victim, one of the Houdini Splicers (teleporter who throws explosives). Sending them into a room full of splicers was so incredibily entertaining. I watched the AI try to figure out how to kill itself quite amusing, especially with the little aggrogant taunts they spout out from time to time.

    But what Bioshock 2 doesnt have, unfortunately, is the same quality of level design through and through. The magic that the first retained throughout the entire experience just isnt here. Bioshock 1 was defined by it's areas, their unique arcitechual design and aesthetics. Overall it was extremely memorable with fascinating points of interest. I fondly look back on areas like the Medical Pavilion run by the demented and insane Dr Steinman, the fishing port of Neptune's Bounty, the Farmers Market, or how about Rapture's entertainment center Fort Frolic? For me, Bioshock 2 really only has one area runsalong the same line as those, and that's in Ryan Amusements. I'll hold off on the details of why it's so interesting but let's just say it's a pivitol moment in the game's narrative truely revealing how arrogant and messed up Ryans practices were. It's a shining example of what a good segement of a game should be comprised of--a solid characteristic that's unique to the narrative and overall plot of, not just the game, but the Bioshock series. Plus it had a purpose in terms of gameplay amd it was fun to play around in.

    Unfortunately most of the other levels--including Siren Alley (the Red Light District), which was a missed opportunity--are much too similar in terms of aesthetic and architectual design. But I must point out that this is not to say that the levels are badly designed or even a bore to play through, but just to bring to light that they're not on par with the original. That whimsically melancholly Bioshock spirit is missing!

    In regards to the plot, once I found out what was going on--and yes it's revealed why you're a Big Daddy who's as weak and vulterable as he is,especially in comparison to the ones in the fist game--it all came together nicely. It's certainly not as interesting or inspired as the original game.

    Conclusion
    Bioshock 2 is a really fun game, but I think that in order for us hardcore to enjoy the intended crafted experience it has to offer then I think we need to come back down to earth (heh) a little. We need to realize that this isnt the first game's experience where we're experiencing Rapture and all its glory for the first time--which, honestly, is the very best part of the first game. But Bioshock 2 is an unpretentious attempt to expand on Rapture lore, and you know what? In the end I respect it for trying to nicely progress in the complexity of Rapture, but most importantly I respect it for being, overall, a fun video game to play--because that's what it does best.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2010
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    In general, it was refined through a more proper focus on being a shooter with RPG elements than an RPG with shooter elements. Remember that in Bioshock 1's Gamasutra postmortem, one of the What-Went-Rights was that they threw away their RPG-heavy original version.
    But I loved the SS2 rpg elements . Although I can see how Bioshock 1 (and Bioshock 2 even more so) were made into much better, more dynamic FPS games. But then I enjoyed the fact that in SS2 you were actually discouraged from getting into heavy firefights due to general scarcity of ammo (although towards the endgame I'm usually lugging so much ammo around it feels more like Doom or Bioshock ).

  21. #46
    Oh boy, ESpark is back and better than ever.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    So at the chance of getting crucified on here, and for what it's worth, I summarized everything I've written in this thread on my blog in a nice little neat post for those that are interested.

    Letting Go So We Can Move Forward:
    http://eat-games.blogspot.com/2010/0...e-isnt-it.html

  23. #48
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    It's interesting to see the progression from SS2, B1, and B2. Each one up the chain is a refined, purified version of the one before it.
    Oh god you're still alive.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    Bioshock burned away all the unrequired dreck SS2 had, most notably the stat-based crap and the research-through-waiting-around nonsense. Weapon jamming and breaking was removed.
    Is that sarcasm or do you really mean what you wrote?

  25. #50
    TTLG Server Goddess
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Out of my mind...
    Quote Originally Posted by mrle01 View Post
    To me that wasn't a problem since I usually bind my quick save/load buttons to F12/F11 (I play with arrow keys insted WASD). So I didn't even have to change that.
    Someone who plays just like me

    Thief was my very first graphical PC game - up till then it had only been solitaire & the Infocom text adventures - God, those were great!. (Guess you could say Garrett broke my cherry - ahem) Anyway, I've played every game since then with what were the default bindings for Thief (arrow keys, F11 & F12, keypad 0 for jump & keypad enter for crouch, etc.) - I am literally at a complete loss if I cannot re-map keys in a game.

    I've had a hard time getting used to having the plasmids and weapons both loaded at the same time (ironically, the fact that you had to switch back 'n forth in the first game was an annoyance as well) and very often find myself firing the wrong one. I also find the inability to replenish Eve, except when you're out very frustrating. Since the only time I run out is in the middle of battling something, pausing to reload while you're getting beat up isn't ideal at all.

    Something that is really minor, but has been bugging the crap outta me... what the hell happened to the graphics on the vending machines?? They look like shit! This makes no sense at all... they're simple static skins, they don't move and they are exactly the same design as in the first game - why do they look like badly compressed jpg images? And, yes, my graphics settings are all at the highest possible.

    I agree that that the "Protect little sister while she collects adam" thing was a huge pain in the ass in the first game, and the idea that I'd be doing a LOT of it in this game did not make me jump for joy... but, I have noticed it's a LOT easier in this game - you have plenty of planning time, before you set her down, and that the trap rivets work really well to weed out a large number of the incoming splicers, and the ones that do get close are easily dispatched with a loving tap from your drill.

    As someone else said, I love the way you can feel that you are a big daddy through sound alone... That part is done so well, and kudos to the devs for its implementation. The clunkiness and reduced field of view from the "be a big daddy" section in the first game were something I worried about in anticipation of this game.

    I saw an article about the lack of backtracking in this game and the developer's reasons for making it that way (I'm gonna have to go back and read it, I just have to find where I saw it)... The "WARNING - you are about to leave this level, are you sure you've done everything you want to do here before you leave?" message was disquieting, and made me go "ummmmshit, I dunno... have I?" So, I ran around aimlessly looking for those hidden wonderments I surely had overlooked... didn't find anything. I'm still wondering what treasures I missed, or if I missed anything at all. I never understood the point of the vita-chambers, I'd much rather use a quicksave (and do, frequently) so I couldn't care less whether they're there or not, disabled or otherwise... I know there was a similar feature in SS2 - but I didn't use those either.

    On a completely different note... I LOVE the Grace Holloway character in Pauper's Drop (reminds me of Queen Latifah in "Chicago", or Shug Avery in "The Color Purple"). I've sat at the "press space to continue" screen to listen to her "Once I lived the life of a millionaire" song in its entirety several times. As with its predecessor, the voice acting & music in this game are top-notch.

    [edit] I have now realized that I only got that "are you sure you've done everything..." message that one time... so I'm guessing the game was hinting that I HAD missed something... wonder what it was.

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