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Thread: First Impressions of BS2

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by ZergMasterBaiter View Post
    But I loved the SS2 rpg elements
    I enjoyed them as well (to some extent), but it's interesting to see how different a FPS-With-RPG-Elements game is designed now as opposed to the era when SS2 was released. There's more of a focus on using RPG elements to supplement the basic game type, rather than shoe-horning a basic game type into an RPG/Stat-heavy system.

    An example of this can be found in researching things. In SS2, you have to be a certain level (if memory serves) to research something. Then you need to find a research chemical... and wait. Bioshock 1, you took static pictures. Bioshock 2, you have to film yourself actively killing an enemy. As the chain of games gones on, you have an increasing focus on action, mobility, and progress in terms of researching. It's simply facinating, especially since the demographic response in turn has been positive.

    It's similar to what happened with Fallout 3.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    I find it amusing that in System Shock 2 there are what, six French-Epstein devices in the whole game. In Bioshock 2, they're dime a dozen, and you can shoot them out of a gun.

    I do like the new hacking system, even if it is painfully easy to hack a bot while it's attacking you.

    The weapons seem strange to me. A lot of them are basically reskins of the previous guns, with minor differences (mostly in ammo types). The biggest differences are in ammo types and magazine sizes, but for the most part they're analogous.

    Don't take the above as ohmygodtheyruinedit criticism, just idle observations. I'm finding Bioshock 2 to be an enjoyable game. Not exactly groundbreaking, but most of the changes from BS1 are welcome, the plot seems interesting enough so far (I'm at the art place), and it's still a good shooter.

    One thing that really irks me, though- Why oh why did they use a health system that forces you to mash heal every few seconds in combat? Why give you a short health bar and five medkits when you could just have a health bar five times bigger and have medkits be instant use? SS2 had an inventory, so it made more sense, but in Bioshock and Bioshock 2 it's just an instant use health regeneration.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    An example of this can be found in researching things. In SS2, you have to be a certain level (if memory serves) to research something. Then you need to find a research chemical... and wait. Bioshock 1, you took static pictures. Bioshock 2, you have to film yourself actively killing an enemy. As the chain of games gones on, you have an increasing focus on action, mobility, and progress in terms of researching. It's simply facinating, especially since the demographic response in turn has been positive.
    I disagree. SS2's system allowed you to set up research and then not worry about it. I could be researching how to kill things while accomplishing my objectives. Bioshock then made you choose between shooting and researching, by having the research camera be a weapon. Bioshock 2 is closer to System Shock 2 in this regard- you choose a target to research, then get out your gun and fight. Once you set it up, you act normally while the research completes.

    If you choose to sit in a chemical storeroom in SS2 waiting for research to complete then that's your choice. The MFD tells you exactly what chemicals you need so a quick pass by the storeroom to grab it/them is the only detour required before returning to your mission objectives.
    Last edited by catbarf; 12th Feb 2010 at 23:17.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2010
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    Bioshock 1, you took static pictures.
    It's similar to what happened with Fallout 3.
    Also Metroid Prime series used the whole scanning/research thing way before those two . But good point ESpark. Research was definitely not the best implemented aspect of SS2. Nevertheless, it was still fun searching the ship for right chemicals and seemed like a believable way to do research on an unknown life form. But Bioshock's enemies are not exactly aliens, just humans behaving differently. So filming them to study behavior makes sense too.

  4. #54
    After a few first minutes with BS2 I'm starting to like it. There's no mystery anymore and the design doesn't feel that much fresh, as with the first game, but improved hacking is nice, so is dual-wielding plasmids and a weapon (though I tend to confuse LMB with plasmid and RMB with weapon, X360 version has left/right trigger assigned as on screen). I like the defend the sister mode, as I have to take a look at the surroundings, think how to tactically exploit it and I start deploying the trap rivets. It's definitely fun but I guess it gets boring after some time.

    Combat's still a bit wonky due to awful keymapping decisions. Almost every action has a separate key: hacking, close hacking, searching, using first-aid kit, playing the audiolog, etc. You may change the key assignment but some of the keys won't work on certain screens (hacking, harverst/adopt choice menu). Nothing really changed in terms of graphics, they're still using this heavily modified Vengance engine. The setting helps a bit but the blurry textures and simple objects tend to remind you that this the old tech. I really wish they dumped it and bought the UDK already.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    If there's a Bioshock 3, I really hope they ditch the weapon upgrade vendors. They're way beyond stupid and too video gamey. Just put the U-Invent type items back in (but unique and tricky to find, scattered in levels, on rafters, etc) and use those to upgrade your weapons at workbenches or maybe a toolbox that you carry around.

  6. #56
    TTLG Server Goddess
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Out of my mind...
    Suddenly, the game got a bit unbalanced... I'm in Siren's Alley and am getting my ass handed to me, repeatedly.

    Time to change tactics, thinks I.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: California, USA
    I'm replaying BS1 right now before I play BS2.

    I would like to remark that researching in BS1 is pure shit since getting shot in the face is pretty much a requirement of getting a decent photo. Well you CAN just ice a splicer and then take five perfectly identical photos of them, but that's just tedious and feels like an exploit.

    Mechanics like researching and hacking were so much better in SS2 I feel, simply because while they weren't particularly engaging or skillful, they weren't obnoxious or tedious either, nor did they involve standing around and waiting for a bar to fill up like DX's lockpicking/hacking.

    The researching mechanics in BS2 sound a lot more appealing than BS1's. I still love chemical storerooms though, I don't think streamlining a game down to absolutely vital gameplay mechanics is superior to having some superfluous depth and a bit of clunkiness. And if I wanted to play minigames, I'd whip out my Gamepig™

  8. #58
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    So long as you put it back in your pants once you're done.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    As the chain of games gones on, you have an increasing focus on action, mobility, and progress in terms of researching.
    That's great for people who like "action", but some of us prefer thinking.

    I haven't bought BS2 yet, so I don't know exactly how the new research is done (except for what I read), but I liked the dilemma of having to take picture : do I do something potentially dangerous but with a prize at the end, or do I go with the easy solution of shooting first?


    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    It's simply facinating, especially since the demographic response in turn has been positive.
    Demographic? What is this "demographic"?

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: California, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    As the chain of games gones on, you have an increasing focus on action, mobility, and progress in terms of researching.
    Concerning mobility:

    SS1: Cyberskates let you zoom around Citadel Skate Park at 50MPH. You can contort your body like a swami. You can FLY.
    SS2: Leveling/enhancing your agility stat aside, you can get so hopped up on speed boosters that running into a wall can kill you.
    BS1: Nothing special but a plasmid that makes you a little faster. You can no longer lean and you must now pause to access map/notes/etc. There is a plasmid that rewards you for standing around in one place.
    BS2: Same as the above and you're a Big Daddy.

    Seems like an increased focus on removing mobility to be honest.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Sportboost tonic? Drill Charge? Scout Plasmid (Has anyone used this)?
    Last edited by Dresden; 14th Feb 2010 at 03:01.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Sportsboost is the first tonic I got, it just makes you move a bit faster.

    Drill charge is an attack move, I certain wouldn't wanna move like a rampaging bull, hit a wall, and be dazed for 2 seconds.

    And scout is useless in a game with respawning. lvl 2 is more useful but I can do just as well without it.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Papy View Post
    That's great for people who like "action", but some of us prefer thinking.
    I dispute the argument that SS2's researching system required thinking. It was a task that required no involvement from the player, short of locating the appropriate chemicals. Having the player take an active role in a situation (in this case, researching) is inherently better than a passive role like SS2's.

    I have a feeling that I'm wrong about this one, but other than fluff and suggestions on weapon loadouts, did SS2's research actively provide anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papy View Post
    I haven't bought BS2 yet, so I don't know exactly how the new research is done (except for what I read), but I liked the dilemma of having to take picture : do I do something potentially dangerous but with a prize at the end, or do I go with the easy solution of shooting first?
    BS2's research scheme provides a similar dilemma: How, in the course of X seconds, do I kill this enemy in a new and unique way in order to get the most effective research score? BS2's research scheme encourages players to experiment with their methods of attack, with the promise of higher scores. Sure, you can get to full research on Enemy X by freezing them and then drilling them over and over, but a new method of dispatching a splicer will give you dramatically higher scores.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papy View Post
    Demographic? What is this "demographic"?
    Why, gamers, naturally. While the time frames are important in this (SS2 came out in an area where GameX-With-RPG-Elements were new and often designed too RPG heavy, and Bioshock came out in a time of increased gaming mainstreamity), would it be your argument that the general clamor and fan interest in SS2 is comparable to Bioshock 1 and 2?

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Oct 1999
    Location: Stuck in some sticky mud, nope quicksand
    The way its going in bioshock 3 you'll be playing as a little sister.

    There still loads of stuff that I wish you could turn off like the quest glint, dont want to be told what I need to frob next with a big shiney glinting object that makes it look odd and feels like the games been made for people with just one brain cell. Although whats really off putting was on the steam forums people going on about how it had taken them 2 hours to beat the game on the xbox, it makes the game feel so very short. You really want a game to last 3 or 4 days, but two hours it just isnt worth the money.

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Massachusetts
    Finished it today. Hard, no vitas, got what I must surmise is the "good" ending.

    I liked it, overall. Better combat, better pacing, mostly better levels which were more fun to run around in, explore and use to your advantage.

    One area that stood out for me, was the latter part of Fontaine Futuristics. It reminded me a little of early BioShock concept, a mad scientist lab that's falling to pieces. that place was eerie.

    The plot does get... a bit weird, and climaxes much later than the first game's. There's a certain section of the climax that I thought was neato, but also quite disturbing. That's all I'm gonna say. Keep playing. You'll get there.

    All in all, the plot wasn't device-free or mind blowing, but it certianly wasn't bad.

    Compared to the first BioShock? Yes, better, but unfortunately marred by familiarity.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by ESpark View Post
    I have a feeling that I'm wrong about this one, but other than fluff and suggestions on weapon loadouts, did SS2's research actively provide anything?
    Research in SS2 yields anything from additional damage against an enemy type to new implants and weapons. Are you sure you played the game? Or was it 'a long time ago'?

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Vienna, Austria
    I'm at fontaine's futuristics and love this map sofar. pauper and ryans amusements were highpoints as well. I loved the ingame cinematic showing how dionysus got flooded - pretty heavy stuff imo. And still, combat, maps, pacing MUCH better than in the first part. novelty is gone but the gameplay has been refinded. I don't mind about reskinned weapons, they serve their purpose and the upgrades/ammo make them different enough from BS1. I actually restarted the game at fontaine since I did some wrong buys and totally forgot the research camera. Now I'm using only the drill + drill tonics and plasmids only. gonna see how far I get with only using the drill but I managed to harvest 2 times and down 1 brute and 1 big sister with the drill only so I guess it could be possible.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    lol SS2 discussions in BS2 thread, christ guys, I love SS2 and pretty much thought BS was a nicely constructed first hour and after that a pretty pile of shit, but even I know that dragging SS2 comparisons in here is just flogging the skeletal remains of a horse after you spent two years unearthing it

  19. #69
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Not necessarily. As you'll recall, shortly after Bioshock first came out and all rational people were rightly disappointed by it, there was a circulating notion that Bioshock's success with mainstream gamers would serve to popularize the sort of base gameplay that made the System Shocks so special, and that future Bioshock games would then leverage this consumer acceptance into a deeper experience more worthy of the Shock name.

    Well... so much for that theory.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Location: Finger paintings of the insane
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    Not necessarily. As you'll recall, shortly after Bioshock first came out and all rational people were rightly disappointed by it, there was a circulating notion that Bioshock's success with mainstream gamers would serve to popularize the sort of base gameplay that made the System Shocks so special, and that future Bioshock games would then leverage this consumer acceptance into a deeper experience more worthy of the Shock name.

    Well... so much for that theory.
    Quoted for truth and my agreement.

  21. #71
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    It's true, and doesn't make me any less disappointed in how things have turned out.

    guess when it comes down to it, the bottom line is there's always masses that you gotta panda to

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    Not necessarily. As you'll recall, shortly after Bioshock first came out and all rational people were rightly disappointed by it, there was a circulating notion that Bioshock's success with mainstream gamers would serve to popularize the sort of base gameplay that made the System Shocks so special, and that future Bioshock games would then leverage this consumer acceptance into a deeper experience more worthy of the Shock name.

    Well... so much for that theory.
    This is a very valid point, ZB, but it's not what I was addressing.

    I am in full agreement though, and not at all surprised that the theorised smart gaming wave has not arrived.

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    ZylonBane's gone senile and you guys are stroking his centennial limp dick?

    The notion that BS would open the mainstream market up for sophisticated gameplay has by-n-large succeeded. BS2 has flashes from the thiefy past. Irrational is working on their big new project. Bethesda's going ahead with New Vegas off of their success with FO3. But most important is that we've got titles in the big leagues now to point at for the publishers, rather than simply art-house phenons. The point from the beginning was that in order for these types of games to be made, they gotta be commercially viable. It's been done now.

    Sometimes I think ttlg's just some dim corner where the manic depressives huddle, feeding on eachother's pessimism. Even the fallout fanbase isn't this hopeless.
    Last edited by Jashin; 15th Feb 2010 at 21:06.

  24. #74
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Who needs Koki when we've got Jashin?

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    I swear to god that was weak zylonbane, like all your other nitpicks.

    Koki who? Must be a senile thing.

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