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Thread: Blade Runner sequels, prequels and spin-offs, oh my!

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    The Predator sequel wasn't that bad, was it? I have to confess, I never understood why it gets such a bad rap.
    Danny Glover beating a Yautja in a fist-fight probably has something to do with it.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    That's not how it happened though:

    Last edited by Starker; 12th Oct 2017 at 19:23.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphur View Post
    I think you're over-reacting.

    To address the first point: if you don't want the cycle to perpetuate, then people need to stop paying to see them. If you want the cycle to stop, vote with your wallet, etc.
    I keep voting with my wallet but they keep coming and coming

    A few things I've learned from TTLG movie threads:
    1. When summer blockbuster season comes around, people here will watch practically anything, even Michael Bay
    2. TTLG seems particularly interested in comic book movies and sci-fi sequels and remakes
    3. We tend to be pickier and more critical of films with a new story and more forgiving with retreads

    So as a group we're pretty much the same as the broader market. We claim we want original material, but when we get it we're kinda lukewarm about it.

  4. #54
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Well, I haven't run an analysis on TTLG's moviegoing tastes, but broadly speaking I think it's safe to assume we've got people of all stripes here, so would it really be surprising there's a % of the population who'd be fans of the random popcorn flick? Not that that's a bad thing, really.

    When it comes to sci-fi sequels and comic book movies, that's also not very surprising considering we're essentially a buncha nerds (sorry, nerds!) and there just aren't that many original sci-fi concept movies being made, and when there are, they tend to be not great.

    I can't comment on everyone else's tastes, so speaking only for myself: it's irritating that new movies jump the shark when they had potential - Interstellar and Arrival come to mind as particularly valiant efforts that do boneheaded things in service of plot - but they're decent movie experiences all the same, so I can't throw them under the bus. Retreads are boring to me unless they're done well, but then I guess we need to qualify what makes for a retread: is Arrival a retread of Contact, and Prometheus a retread of Alien?

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Moon was alright and that was just... wait... in 2009? Do we really get so little sci-fi?
    Last edited by Starker; 16th May 2017 at 05:20.

  6. #56
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Yep. The last original sci-fi/semi sci-fi movie I liked without multiple major reservations (I only had, like, two) was Looper, and that was 2012.

    Of course there's the Divergent series, but I haven't seen those given they seem pretty bad from the outset.

  7. #57
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    I guess there's been a raft of movies that have possible sci-fi elements that we're ignoring like The Lobster and Midnight Special, though.

    There's also relatively under the radar stuff like High-Rise which means there probably is more sci-fi if we look for it, just not much of it makes as big a splash as the likes of your average Nolan movie or Tom Cruise vehicle.
    Last edited by Sulphur; 16th May 2017 at 05:40.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Of course, all the comic book movies like Guardians of the Galaxy have quite a bit of an overlap as well.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphur View Post
    Well, I haven't run an analysis on TTLG's moviegoing tastes, but broadly speaking I think it's safe to assume we've got people of all stripes here, so would it really be surprising there's a % of the population who'd be fans of the random popcorn flick? Not that that's a bad thing, really.

    When it comes to sci-fi sequels and comic book movies, that's also not very surprising considering we're essentially a buncha nerds (sorry, nerds!) and there just aren't that many original sci-fi concept movies being made, and when there are, they tend to be not great.

    I can't comment on everyone else's tastes, so speaking only for myself: it's irritating that new movies jump the shark when they had potential - Interstellar and Arrival come to mind as particularly valiant efforts that do boneheaded things in service of plot - but they're decent movie experiences all the same, so I can't throw them under the bus. Retreads are boring to me unless they're done well, but then I guess we need to qualify what makes for a retread: is Arrival a retread of Contact, and Prometheus a retread of Alien?
    We could argue all day about what is original vs. a retread since a critic can take just about any sci-fi flick and complain that this or that has been done before. So for purposes of discussion, let's define an original story as something that is not part of an established plot-line from another film (no sequels or prequels), doesn't re-use any characters from another film, and doesn't exist within the fictional universe created by another film.

    Since you brought up Interstellar, let me use Nolan as an example of my point. His Batman flicks got a lot of love here, and the last two grossed over $1B. But his original stories, Inception and Interstellar, failed to get the same level of attention and admiration and didn't do as well at the box office. Inception has to be one of the most original sci-fi films I've seen in a long time, and it was extremely well made, but aside from Scots Taffer I don't recall it having many fans here. Interstellar was an overly ambitious effort which suffered from trying to cram too much plot into a single film, but it was different and interesting and enjoyable to watch. The Dark Knight and TDKR were enjoyable to watch too, but in the end they're just Batman flicks and will soon be forgotten. Inception and Interstellar are far more notable in the genre.

    I'll use Joseph Kosinski as another example. Tron: Legacy had a discussion thread here that went on for like 10 pages. It wasn't a bad movie. It had some great visual effects, a good soundtrack, and Jeff Bridges had good screen presence. Worth a movie ticket, but not so interesting or original that it warrants pages and pages of discussion. Oblivion was (by any standard I can imagine) a much better movie. But it was comparatively ignored and if I remember correctly, the few comments about it here were somewhat meh or negative.

    I don't understand how we can spend pages and pages fan wanking away about engineers and whatnot after the awful Prometheus, or talking Star Wars or Star Trek for the Nth time, or getting excited about yet another Marvel movie, and then complain about the lack of original sci-fi. Some of the recent "original" sci-fi I've enjoyed are the aforementioned Looper, Moon, the Nolan films, Oblivion. Also Ex Machina, District 9, Upstream Color, Edge of Tomorrow, Contagion, Melancholia, Source Code, Never Let Me Go. And some of the cutesier and funnier stuff too: The World’s End, Super 8, WALL-E. The Martian and Coherence weren't too bad either. I haven't seen Arrival yet.

    Most of the bad sci-fi I've seen in recent years has come from established franchises: Prometheus, Star Trek, Force Awakens, Transformers, X-Men, and Avengers sequels. Although I've also watched some original stinkers e.g. Europa Report, Sunshine, Elysium.

  10. #60
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Europa Report was okay.

    Arrival was great.

    Upstream Color?

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Upstream Color was Shane Carruth's follow-up to Primer. It sadly went under the radar. I think Primer was smart but somewhat over-rated. The story was not particularly creative, basically "what would I do if I had a time machine." The appeal of the Primer was the mental challenge of trying to keep up with and unravel the time loops as the story progressed. I liked it, but thought it was a bit of a one-trick pony. Upstream Color is less overtly a puzzle, but Carruth still leaves it to the audience to connect things and interpret the plot. It's probably a bit too abstract and existential than Primer fans will like, but it gives you more to contemplate. The film-making is quite a bit better too..

    I was disappointed in Europa Report. I'm having trouble recalling specifics now. IIRC it started OK, but the plot never went anywhere: they landed on Europa and the rest was just a series of one contrived crisis after another. When I saw a preview I thought it might turn out kind of like The Abyss, but it wasn't nearly as good.

  12. #62
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    Upstream Color?
    Weird - haven't I heard you raving about it before? I thought this actually was one of the reasons I decided to watch it a few years back.

  13. #63
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    You have. I really liked it, and I love that it's so different to Primer. UC is kind of terrifying in many ways, but really beautiful too.

    Primer is great though. Yeah, it's the most complicated time loop likely to ever be made but it's great on so many levels. The time travel method is really interesting and brings a lot of cool headaches with it. The concept of being essentially erased from your timeline every time you travel felt much more realistic than in other films. And that ending... if you followed it all the way through it's brilliant. Shame you can only hold the plot in your head for about 24 hours.

    Naturally I'm looking forward to The Modern Ocean.

  14. #64
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    We could argue all day about what is original vs. a retread since a critic can take just about any sci-fi flick and complain that this or that has been done before. So for purposes of discussion, let's define an original story as something that is not part of an established plot-line from another film (no sequels or prequels), doesn't re-use any characters from another film, and doesn't exist within the fictional universe created by another film.
    Awright, that's a good enough base.

    Since you brought up Interstellar, let me use Nolan as an example of my point. His Batman flicks got a lot of love here, and the last two grossed over $1B. But his original stories, Inception and Interstellar, failed to get the same level of attention and admiration and didn't do as well at the box office. Inception has to be one of the most original sci-fi films I've seen in a long time, and it was extremely well made, but aside from Scots Taffer I don't recall it having many fans here. Interstellar was an overly ambitious effort which suffered from trying to cram too much plot into a single film, but it was different and interesting and enjoyable to watch. The Dark Knight and TDKR were enjoyable to watch too, but in the end they're just Batman flicks and will soon be forgotten. Inception and Interstellar are far more notable in the genre.
    I'm going to have to disagree here. TDK and TDKR may have done over $1B USD, but Inception did $825 million, which is incredible by most metrics, especially for an original property not from Disney or based on comic books. And while I love Inception - if you check that thread you'll know I was squarely in the camp for it - I will say that The Dark Knight was still the better effort. It's not as burdened with exposition or as muddled in its plot structure, had better acting, and remains a viciously dark tale about human nature that, quite frankly, has no right being lumped in the same camp as most comic book movies. TDKR, in comparison, was an inevitable letdown.

    Interstellar did a decent amount of business, but there was a profit fall-off for it, yeah. Around 600 million or so - not a small sum and still three times the return on production investment, but it didn't do as gangbusters as Inception.

    I'll use Joseph Kosinski as another example. Tron: Legacy had a discussion thread here that went on for like 10 pages. It wasn't a bad movie. It had some great visual effects, a good soundtrack, and Jeff Bridges had good screen presence. Worth a movie ticket, but not so interesting or original that it warrants pages and pages of discussion. Oblivion was (by any standard I can imagine) a much better movie. But it was comparatively ignored and if I remember correctly, the few comments about it here were somewhat meh or negative.
    You seem to be equating the length of a discussion around something with the amount of popularity for it. This isn't necessarily true. Some of us love taking things apart (see: Inception, Interstellar threads), and generally discussions spiral out when opinions clash. If everyone had liked Tron: Legacy, the only thing you'd see in that thread would be a rapid succession of posts boiling down to, 'Yeah, is good!'. But Tron is an essential part of most people's childhoods here, so obviously there's going to be more discussion about it and picking apart of what it did than something like Oblivion.

    And, quite frankly, Oblivion was... okay? I didn't like it, but that's just my opinion. It had a plot that was questionable from a few angles, but it also couldn't figure out if it wanted to be an impressionistic Tarkovsky-ish piece or a pacey sci-fi thriller. It didn't cohere too well for me.

    I don't understand how we can spend pages and pages fan wanking away about engineers and whatnot after the awful Prometheus, or talking Star Wars or Star Trek for the Nth time, or getting excited about yet another Marvel movie, and then complain about the lack of original sci-fi. Some of the recent "original" sci-fi I've enjoyed are the aforementioned Looper, Moon, the Nolan films, Oblivion. Also Ex Machina, District 9, Upstream Color, Edge of Tomorrow, Contagion, Melancholia, Source Code, Never Let Me Go. And some of the cutesier and funnier stuff too: The World’s End, Super 8, WALL-E. The Martian and Coherence weren't too bad either. I haven't seen Arrival yet.

    Most of the bad sci-fi I've seen in recent years has come from established franchises: Prometheus, Star Trek, Force Awakens, Transformers, X-Men, and Avengers sequels. Although I've also watched some original stinkers e.g. Europa Report, Sunshine, Elysium.
    As above, just because we trade theories over something doesn't equate to people liking it. We kept going on about Prometheus because there's a difference in opinion about what it did well, and what it didn't -- there's some apparent room for interpretation there. I think Prometheus was easily one of the more awful sci-fi efforts of the recent past because it's pretty disingenuous to the first Alien movie, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to discuss it at length.

    As for the other movies, I only mentioned stuff from the last year or two. If we're talking good movies from a wider timeframe, yes, Ex Machina and District 9 were pretty good efforts. I enjoyed Edge of Tomorrow while also wishing it didn't play it safe like a normal AAA blockbuster; The Martian was fairly good, and if we can count a survival movie transposed to space as sci-fi, Gravity is a benchmark as well. I think we've had threads or at least a decent amount of mentions for each of these.

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    To be honest, this is simply not my go-to place for movie discussion. I'll engage in the occasional chat about this film or that, but when I already see a categorical list of "all these are bad", I'm not particularly interested in engaging in discussion, because the lines are already drawn. It's simply not a starting point that I tend to be interested in.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    I’m not trying to equate post count with popularity, but I am equating the amount of discussion around a movie with the amount of interest there is in the movie.

    As you noted, there was a lot of interest in Tron: Legacy because of Tron. There was a lot of interest in Prometheus because it’s part of the Alien franchise. And so on with other franchises. What I observe is that the level of fan interest translates into box office performance, regardless of whether the movie turns out to be good or not.

    On one hand, we periodically gripe about a lack of new/original sci-fi. While on the other hand we keep voting for more sequels, prequels, and remakes with our wallets and our posts. And we’ll keep going back to drink from the same well even after the water starts tasting bad (see Alien franchise and Transformers franchise).

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Did Transformers ever taste good? I saw the first movie and that was enough for me to never want to watch another. Was the cartoon particularly good or...?

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    I saw the first one too and stopped there.

    Transformers were big when I was a kid. Not just the show but the toys.

    The first film wasn’t good enough to get me to watch the second, although it did receive lukewarm positive reviews. The second film was universally panned by critics and aggregators but it still made over $800M. And people still went back for a third helping. The third movie was panned too and it made over $1B. And then the fourth film, universally panned again, made over $1B again and was the highest grossing film of 2014. Must be a guilty pleasure or something because nobody seems to admit to liking the sequels.

  19. #69
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    I’m not trying to equate post count with popularity, but I am equating the amount of discussion around a movie with the amount of interest there is in the movie.

    As you noted, there was a lot of interest in Tron: Legacy because of Tron. There was a lot of interest in Prometheus because it’s part of the Alien franchise. And so on with other franchises. What I observe is that the level of fan interest translates into box office performance, regardless of whether the movie turns out to be good or not.

    On one hand, we periodically gripe about a lack of new/original sci-fi. While on the other hand we keep voting for more sequels, prequels, and remakes with our wallets and our posts. And we’ll keep going back to drink from the same well even after the water starts tasting bad (see Alien franchise and Transformers franchise).
    I think it's a fair point that we're generally interested in new entries to tried and tested properties; the hope is that they measure up to or exceed the originals by some margin, which is only basic human psychology. Whether that correlates to inflated box office performance is a supposition that may well be true, but I can't agree or disagree with that without someone doing an analysis with hard data. The only trend I've personally observed is that, in general, if a movie or sequel does well, the expectation for the follow-up becomes greater, and if that fails then the subsequent sequels get a lesser turn-out.

    I don't disagree with anything else you've said in principle: I also think it's time people started looking at things critically and stop paying money for trash. The only nuTransformers movie I've seen was the second one, and all I remember is the feeling of being vaguely offended by how stupid it was. But hey, kids love it, I guess, which is why the series keeps doing well.

    In the larger scheme of things, I think we're getting a decent (not a lot, but an okay) amount of sci-fi if you average releases out over a long enough timeframe - say, every five years. It's just that while there's a lot of decent to good work in 'em, I've yet to see much that can be called great. I'll keep on hoping and watching for that, though.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: on a mission to civilize
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphur View Post
    The only nuTransformers movie I've seen was the second one, and all I remember is the feeling of being vaguely offended by how stupid it was. But hey, kids love it, I guess, which is why the series keeps doing well.
    See, I took it the other way. I figure the reason films like Transformers or the 28th reboot of Spiderman do well is not because kids like it, but because adults are (now-a-days) incredibly stupid and have zero taste when it comes to the art of film. How else can one explain the allure of yet another Pirates of The Caribbean?

  21. #71
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Cronenberg should have been given $400 million, Transformers and free reign.

    It would have been AMAZING

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    Now with guest stars Grub and Bee. Are they replicants too?


    Probably not. I remember from the game that larger mammals like dogs and tigers had mostly died off due to the nuke exchange, but they weren't extinct. I'd think smaller organisms would have an easier time pulling through.

  23. #73
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    That's a much better trailer, even if it now does the polar opposite of the first and gives away more information than it needs to. It did the job though; I'll probably see this when it comes out.

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Yah, I'm already more interested than in any alien equel.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    IMAX is moving away from 3D. And Blade Runner 2049 will be shown in 2-D exclusively.

    http://www.thewrap.com/imax-moving-a...qaa9uBs.reddit

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