The Legend of Grimrock: 2.5D dungeon-crawling game

[Stitch]

Not really; this "rebirth in sidescrollers" (as if they ever died) is not caused by nostalgia or fantastic gameplay (seriously, 90% of them play exactly the same), but simply the fact anything more complex is out of the reach for an indie team / garage programmer these days. And platforms like Steam and XNA made indie development far more possible than it used to be, hence why such a sudden influx of copypasta platformers and puzzle games.

I wasn't talking about Braid, champ.

Admittedly a few high profile release don't exactly make for a surging comeback, but there certainly does seem to be a rediscovered sense of "oh yeah, these were fun, weren't they?"

[Sulphur]

No, for gameplay. That old tile-based fixed-perspective gameplay, which complete freedom of movement doesn't touch. It's a bit like the recent-ish rebirth in sidescrollers despite 3D games supposedly doing them in fifteen years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I'd also love a thoroughly 3-D full freedom dungeon crawler as that would scratch a completely different itch, but the guy whose childhood was cast deep in Dungeon Master's shadow just got a new game to hotly anticipate.

Y'know, I get yours and Renz's and Melan's argument about 'scratching the itch'. Perhaps my disdain for this stuff lies in the fact that I always found it stilted to unnatural degrees, unenjoyable because of the stuffiness contained within pacing four inches at a time forever, along countless, faceless labyrinths and cloisters. I might've enjoyed the narratives and the RPG-ness of some of them, but the interface never jived with me. On the other hand, I love me some oldschool side-scrollers like Rayman/Prince of Persia/Mario/Limbo/what have you, and I love 3D games with all the bells and whistles on. And that's because they're two completely different types of games.

These - Dungeon Master, etc. - on the other hand, seemed the best we could do at the time, functional for what they were, but certainly found wanting in the usability department. Those problems were solved with time, and we didn't ever look back until now. I can't relate to any craving to go back to something that intentionally curbs its believability/playability today to evoke the limitations of the past; perhaps there's something to the 'feel' of the gameplay that I'm missing, or more that hasn't been articulated quite yet by you folks, but I see this and all I feel is, 'gee, this could be better'.

[Eldron]

Ultima underworld came out before lands of lore though, so it's not entirely due to being limited by the tech.

But what stands true is, if one didn't enjoy how it was back in the days, he probably wont enjoy it today either.

[Sulphur]

UW1 did have pretty high system requirements at the time for what it was though, IIRC.

[Eldron]

UW1 did have pretty high system requirements at the time for what it was though, IIRC.

I would say there was a high thirst for freedom in movement since it was so new and fresh, with the sequels of LOL and might and magic going full motion, but I guess the same holds now, we've gotten so used to it that it's refreshing to see the old again.

[Al_B]

Purely from memory its requirements were high, but not extreme considering other Origin games at the time. I seem to remember Lands of Lore being criticised at the time for having high system requirements for what was a comparatively simpler game - but I haven't played it myself.

In any case, this game could be interesting if they do something beyond a simple dungeon crawl. Yes, it scratches an itch, but there are loads of those to choose from already.

[Stitch]

In any case, this game could be interesting if they do something beyond a simple dungeon crawl. Yes, it scratches an itch, but there are loads of those to choose from already.

Such as?

[Yakoob]

I wasn't talking about Braid, champ.

Admittedly a few high profile release don't exactly make for a surging comeback, but there certainly does seem to be a rediscovered sense of "oh yeah, these were fun, weren't they?"

Whut? There's like a remake of Mario coming out every other year. Nintendo is well known for milking and remilking their old franchise. Hell, are we having an FPS resurge now because a new Goldeney007 port is out?

[Angel Dust]

Do they have 2D old-school style Mario games coming out every other year?*

Anyway, I'll be keeping an eye of this one. I never played these 2.5D dungeon crawlers when they were cutting edge but I gave one of the EotBs a try a few years ago and quite liked it. Yeah, they were definitely running up against the limitations of the time but they have a different vibe (less frantic and more relaxing to play while still offering the usually tension of dungeon crawling) to them that I like.

* Kind of an honest question. I've only been aware of the new 3D ones (Sunshine, Galaxy etc) and had assumed that this New Super Mario Bros was a genuine event.

[dethtoll]

Yakoob doesn't know what he's talking about. We often wait years between Zelda games, and Metroid is all but ignored. Though, considering what happened with Other M, that may not necessarily be a bad thing. The Mario games these days are pretty much different from each other; Mario 1 getting remade was an entirely new event.

That said, be nice if Zelda games these days weren't just more retreads of LttP.

[Yakoob]

Well pretty much every single of the Nintendo consoles had a remake of several of the super marios. Kind of like each one also gets its own remakes of all the pre-7 final fantasies. Or Zelda. Or any nintendo game before that console, really.

EDIT: deth, I removed a comment about your trolling from my post in another thread, but now I kinda wish I hadn't. You've been full of "No, you're wrong" drive-by flames for a while now...

[dethtoll]

Okay, stop. Stop before you hurt yourself.

[edit] What? I said you don't know what you're talking about, which you don't. I used no "fucks", "shits", "morons", "turdsurfers," or "Greenlands". Then I said stop before you hurt yourself because you're spouting a lot of stuff that is incorrect, in other words your entire post.

Saying you're wrong isn't a flame. Saying you're wrong and you're a faggot is a flame. There is a difference.

You want me to stop telling you you're wrong? Stop saying things you're wrong about.

[Yakoob]

It's not about using insults, it's about you coming in, calling someone wrong, and offering absolutely no justification as to why they are wrong. You do it quite frequently, and in many questionable cases like this.

Or are you telling me Nintendo really doesn't rehash their old franchise over and over on each new console they develop? Because I frankly don't understand how you can argue that.

[Eldron]

They do milk and port their franchises, remakes are pretty rare though.

The ones I can think of from the top of my head is ocarina of time 3ds, metroid zero mission, mario allstars, and starfox64 coming out soon on 3ds.

[Stitch]

Yakoob is wrong as usual, while Nintendo certainly milks the hell out of their franchises and rereleases the hell out of everything, the original New Super Mario Bros game on the DS was the first new Mario platform sidescroller they released in 14 years.

And no, it wasn't a port, even if its DNA was mostly recycled.

[EvaUnit02]

The ones I can think of from the top of my head is ocarina of time 3ds
... starfox64 coming out soon on 3ds.

I'd class OoT and Lylat Wars for 3DS as upgraded ports, not remakes.

[dethtoll]

It's not about using insults, it's about you coming in, calling someone wrong, and offering absolutely no justification as to why they are wrong. You do it quite frequently, and in many questionable cases like this.

You want a chart? You make a statement that is completely wrong. I say you're wrong. I don't need to back it up because the reality is the opposite of what you said.

And this most certainly isn't a questionable case, as has been demonstrated. Give up.

[CCCToad]

somebody's been getting some coaching.


Everyone here really needs to chill the fuck out. Arguing about Mario re-hashes has absolutely NOTHING to do the topic of dungeon crawlers.

Perhaps my disdain for this stuff lies in the fact that I always found it stilted to unnatural degrees, unenjoyable because of the stuffiness contained within pacing four inches at a time forever, along countless, faceless labyrinths and cloisters. I might've enjoyed the narratives and the RPG-ness of some of them, but the interface never jived with me.

He's right, to a point. The flaws in previous dungeon crawlers were substantial but they aren't inherent to the format. There's absolutely no reason you can't make fantastic, stunning dungeons nowadays with vastly improved pacing. I can think of one game that, if it had been first instead of third person, would have done exactly that:

[Matthew]

It was good enough in third person without adding all that FP wank, thanks.

[Yakoob]

Yakoob is wrong as usual, while Nintendo certainly milks the hell out of their franchises and rereleases the hell out of everything, the original New Super Mario Bros game on the DS was the first new Mario platform sidescroller they released in 14 years.

And no, it wasn't a port, even if its DNA was mostly recycled.

Oh it's actually a new game? My bad, I didn't notice under the veil of everything looking the same. Still, I'd hardly call that a resurgence in side-scrollers exactly because there is a constant stream of old rehashes. Megaman 9 is about the only other "new" notable example I can think of; what else is there?

[MrDuck]

I love me a good Super Mario platformer, yessir. 2D or 3D, bring it on.

Also, as far as dungeon crawlers go, I can't wait for Dark Souls, even if it bumrapes me a hundred times like a virgin trapped inside a cage full of horny baboons.

Megaman 9 is about the only other "new" notable example I can think of; what else is there?

Mega Man 10?

[dethtoll]

How about Trine? Or Super Meat Boy? Or VVVVVV? Or Bionic Commando Rearmed? Or H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H

[Vernon]

you have to burn the rope

cave story

bounce on the penises to save the prince

[Shadowhide]

bounce on the penises to save the prince

You say that like it's a bad thing

[Muzman]

Perhaps my disdain for this stuff lies in the fact that I always found it stilted to unnatural degrees, unenjoyable because of the stuffiness contained within pacing four inches at a time forever, along countless, faceless labyrinths and cloisters.

Come on. Didn't you try Bard's Tale or whatever? Didn't the image of a six person party crammed into two metres squared, unable to move, amuse you endlessly as you shuffled them around like some college prank or bucks night outcome?