Prometheus

[Sombras]

It seems to me that the lifecycle works like this. Black goo breaks down a living creature, alters its DNA, and creates a new creature- worms become the cobras, the fertilized egg becomes the octo-hugger thing.

Hmmm, OK. So what about the black goo that the Engineer drinks at the beginning? Same black goo, you think? I assumed that he was "seeding" the Earth by sacrificing his body.

OK, the geologist and Charlie both showed signed of disintegration after being exposed, so I wonder if the same thing was happening to them, and to the revived Engineer's head?

This altered creature is basically a proto-facehugger, which infects another host just like the facehuggers in the Alien franchise, and the result then is a full Alien.

I'll buy that, but why the difference? Also, not nearly as scary as the facehuggers.

The only thing that doesn't fit is the geologist attacking the rest of the crew, so for that I have no explanation, but the shared attack method of the cobra and the squid seems more than coincidental.

I agree. What about this scenario: In the unexplained "re-play" of the Engineers fleeing into the "Head Room" (ha, see what I did there?), were a few of them trying to get away from the one bringing up the rear, the one who ended up decapitated by the door? If he was infected like the geologist, maybe he was terrorizing his fellow crewmembers? He was clearly infected by something when he was revived on the Prometheus.


And some more worthless conjecture: Maybe the Engineers created humans on Earth (and elsewhere?) to serve as host populations for bioweapons to be used against an enemy? If so, seems needlessly complicated. And, on the Engineer ship, either a random fuck-up let the weapon loose, or maybe one of them sabotaged the mission to save humanity? I like that last idea.

Jesus christ, I think I'm hooked on this.

[catbarf]

I also feel like there's some discontinuity between the scene on LV-426 at the end of Prometheus and what the Nostromo's crew find in Alien. No sign of the Prometheus in the wreckage of the Engineer ship, and no evidence of Vickers' escape ship nearby. Also, the Nostromo crew found the Engineer pilot still in his "cockpit" and "flight suit", with evidence that he died from a chest-burster. (I ALWAYS assumed, wrongly, that his dying from the burster is what brought down the Engineer ship.) Unless other things were happening aboard the Engineer ship that we didn't know about, that's certainly not the situation we saw at the end of the movie.

Oh, oh, oh, and how is it that Shaw made it back to the Engineer ship when she had already run out of air at Vickers' escape boat? (Little things like that BUG me.)

The ship on LV-426 can't be the one in Prometheus. The engineer died in a very different location, so there's no way they're the same one, and the ship in Alien presumably did not have the urns full of black goo. Also, I would assume her suit automatically refilled from the escape boat's air. As the movie was winding down, I thought there was going to be some cool connection like the impregnated Engineer waking up, getting on his ship, and barely managing to take off and get into space despite the damage, but it seems that was not to be.

[Sombras]

The ship on LV-426 can't be related to the one in Prometheus. The engineer died in a very different location, so there's no way they're the same one, and the ship in Alien presumably did not have the urns full of black goo. Also, I would assume her suit automatically refilled from the escape boat's air.

Agreed. So, wait, did Prometheus take place on a different planet than LV-426??? Seems crazy that two different Engineer ships on two different planets would suffer similar fates.


That makes sense about the suit refilling. See? Just another example of the plot jumping too much and the audience having to work overtime to fill in the gaps.

[catbarf]

Hmmm, OK. So what about the black goo that the Engineer drinks at the beginning? Same black goo, you think? I assumed that he was "seeding" the Earth by sacrificing his body.

I figured same goo, but because he directly ingested it in large quantity it worked quickly. Although, maybe the black goo used in the intro was to seed life like you say, but the one encountered by the crew was an altered form used as a weapon that makes scary nasty shit out of what it destroys.

I agree. What about this scenario: In the unexplained "re-play" of the Engineers fleeing into the "Head Room" (ha, see what I did there?), were a few of them trying to get away from the one bringing up the rear, the one who ended up decapitated by the door? If he was infected like the geologist, maybe he was terrorizing his fellow crewmembers? He was clearly infected by something when he was revived on the Prometheus.

I thought it was more likely that a few of the Alien-things got loose and attacked, and the decapitated guy might have been infected by the Aliens. Or, another possibility, his head was the only part that got infected, because it was in the urn room.

[Brethren]

Agreed. So, wait, did Prometheus take place on a different planet than LV-426??? Seems crazy that two different Engineer ships on two different planets would suffer similar fates.

They're probably saving that explanation for the sequel, but yes, the planet on Prometheus was LV-223, not LV-426.

[Sombras]

They're probably saving that explanation for the sequel, but yes, the planet on Prometheus was LV-223, not LV-426.

Man, you are really turning me on.

And THIS SITE gives weight to the notion that the Prometheus stumbled on just one of possibly many sites where the Engineers were experimenting with bioweapons. Apparently, things went down the crapper in multiple places.

[Pyrian]

(And, what fucking BIOLOGIST sent to study alien species would talk to an unknown, potentially dangerous organism like it's a puppy?)

I know several biologists that would do precisely that. And the more creepy and bizarre the organism, the more they'll infantilize it.

[Morte]

Agreed. So, wait, did Prometheus take place on a different planet than LV-426??? Seems crazy that two different Engineer ships on two different planets would suffer similar fates.

It's one of the many moments when the movie can't help itself and provides unecessary and distracting callbacks to Alien. See also: David getting decapitated and becoming a talking head on the floor, and those terrible final shots.

That makes sense about the suit refilling. See? Just another example of the plot jumping too much and the audience having to work overtime to fill in the gaps.

Actually, first thing she does when she gets on the lifeboat is grab a bunch of small white-ish tubes out of a compartment. I assumed that was the oxygen resupply.

[Brethren]

The ironic thing is, because this movie was so messy and confusing, I actually want to shell out the dough and go see it again. Do you think this is what they had in mind all along?

[Subjective Effect]

Agreed. So, wait, did Prometheus take place on a different planet than LV-426??? Seems crazy that two different Engineer ships on two different planets would suffer similar fates.

Not this again.

It clearly states when they arrive that it is LV223. I've seen this error all over the place, and the supposed lack of continuity as a problem with the film when it's you people who didn't pay attention making a mistake. And I don't mean to be rude but anyone who misses this wasn't paying attention.

gives weight to the notion that the Prometheus stumbled on just one of possibly many sites where the Engineers were experimenting with bioweapons.

Isn't this the entire point? They have done this all over the place and Earth is the linked host planet for the LV223, which is why the Engineers from there keep visiting and making contact with humans throughout the ages.

They clearly have a biotech facility and a linked "human" (more one this later) planet. Why? Well it looks like they are making Alien eggs, and in order to do it they need the set up; pluripotential goo (which is why it turns into different stuff) and hosts (humans) to go through the (many) cycles and end up with Alien eggs. This is why the Engineer is heading to Earth - it's his mission and was abandoned 200 years ago. We were never meant to get this technologically advanced. The reason he is in cryo is that he was never woken up and can't very well do so while he is asleep. The other Engineers bungled the mission and got infected/impregnated. This likely happened in the other pyramids and they all came to this one to escape.

With regards to the "why?" - there could be a couple of reasons. 1. That's just the plan; get the numbers up, get the eggs, PROFIT. 2. The initial attack on Earth was supposed to be about 2000 years ago. Given the exposition about faith and creators is this a hint at our failure to recognise our place in the universe - that around the time of Christ it became clear to them that spiritually we had failed to recognise and follow the true "faith"? They left clues after all...

The ship on LV426 is carrying the final cargo but the pilot was obviously impregnated. For whatever reason he has continued on his delivery mission/been volunteered to go on it and succumbed to the Alien and crashed.

Other plot points.

David - on a mission from Weyland. Doesn't know what the goo will do an experiments on a crew member. How is this hard to get?

Shaw - doesn't know how she got infected, only that she has got rid of it. Why would she flip out, especially when doing that will stop her from getting to meet the Engineer and ask her questions.

The 100% DNA question. Not all DNA is expressed all the time. These guys are DNA engineers - they can likely manipulate it well enough to alter sizes. This why earlier I calle dus "humans". We are engineered from them, but that gives no guarantee that we'll be exactly like them, or indeed that all the other "human" planets are like them or us.

do you guys get the impression that the Nostromo just happened to pick up the distress signal in the course of it's normal operations, or was the entire expedition intended from the start to get an "expendable" crew over there to check it out?

They were sent. Ash knew all along.

[Brethren]

They were sent. Ash knew all along.

The more I think about it, I'm not buying it. Even 50+ years later with terraformers living on LV-426, "The Company" still doesn't know about the derelict ship until Burke sends some prospectors over there to check it out, based on info he gets from Ripley.

[Subjective Effect]

The Company definitely knows because Ash contacted them before he flipped out.

[Neb]

Didn't he just 'talk' to Mother?

From what I remember of the back story (which even if official and I haven't misremembered, shouldn't be taken too seriously) is that another ship picked up the signal, the company organised for Ash to take over as science officer on the Nostromo's return journey, and special directives were given to study any lifeforms at all costs. He had no direct contact with the company, and then nothing is heard from the crew until Ripley wakes up in Aliens.

[Brethren]

Here' my take -

Every deep space ship has a "Mother" AI which is programmed to act on behalf of The Company.
Each ship also has a synthetic Ash type character who is essentially an agent of Mother's (and The Company).
The Nostromo was too far out in space to directly communicate with Earth, but Mother was already programmed to investigate any alien life forms for study & capture if they were encountered. She woke up the crew when the "distress" signal was received (she probably knew it was a warning, but lied about it).
Ash was physically responsible for making it happen and bringing it back to Earth. Crew Expendable.

So when the Nostromo detonated, pretty much any record of anything that happened in Alien was gone, except for the shuttle with Ripley, which was lost and drifting around space.

[Volitions Advocate]

I'll have to go back and watch Alien again, it's been awhile... but do we know for sure the original signal was a warning? Ripley suspects it might be a warning. there was no superancientspacefaringalien-to-english translator on the Nostromo. What if the signal was a deliberate trap? Or maybe it was a distress signal to the other Engineers. If the space jockey was compromised and their mission was important, and if the hypothesis here that the Alien was the final goal of the lifecycle created by the black goo, wouldn't it make sense that the the space jockey would have sent out a transmission detailing his mission failure so that the rest of the engineers would be able to recover the cargo? He wouldn't need to send a "stay away' warning because everybody else would know what was on his ship.

I don't think the signal was a warning. but Ash/WeylandYutani/Mother wouldn't have known it one way or another.

[Nicker]

SHAW: Cool robo-surgeon!

VICKERS: GTFO! That’s my personal robo-surgeon on my personal lifeboat because I have a near pathological desire not to perish.


Later that same movie...


SHAW: Get this alien-baby out of my womb!

ROBO-SURGEON: Sorry, I am not configured for female patients, despite being purchased by a woman with a near pathological desire not to perish.

SHAW: OK, just give me a C-Section then.

ROBO-SURGEON: Rodger that! Prepare for gentleman’s birthing procedure! Good thing I happen to have these obstetrics forceps handy, regardless...

[Bakerman]

Nicker - a friend of mine reckons the surgical pod was for Weyland, not Vickers. Made sense to me!

[catbarf]

Nicker - a friend of mine reckons the surgical pod was for Weyland, not Vickers. Made sense to me! Oh, uh, spoilers.

I figured as much, but wasn't Vickers genuinely surprised that daddy tagged along for the ride?

[Fafhrd]

No, she knew he was there. She has the conversation with David after he chats with Weyland in his cryo pod where she asks what Weyland said.

[Nicker]

Nicker - a friend of mine reckons the surgical pod was for Weyland, not Vickers. Made sense to me! Oh, uh, spoilers.

I can't imagine that anyone reading this far in this thread has not seen the movie yet but just in case...

What would Weyland need obstetrical forceps for?

What Fafhrd said and...

... they missed an opportunity. Given Weyland's extreme pro living motives, it might have been more interesting if the r-s had refused to perform a termination without a cooling off period, mandatory counselling and permission from two consulting experts.

[Bakerman]

What would Weyland need obstetrical forceps for?

I never said it would stand up in court.

(Read: yeah, I don't really think there's a sensible explanation here. I always thought she just went through the menus and selected some other type of operation meant for men. That... required forceps.)

[Harvester]

Are the obstetrical forceps ever shown?

spoiler:

Because IIRC she asks for a C-section, the machine tells her it's configured for males, and then she selects the "remove foreign object from abdominal area" option (which could also happen for a man, for example with a bullet or a piece of shrapnel) and the machine cuts it out. I distinctly remember the "remove foreign object" setting she chooses, but I don't recall seeing any obstetrical forceps being shown or talked about.

[Neb]

forceps?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claw_crane

[Nicker]

Are the obstetrical forceps ever shown?

Yes. They were used to grip the squid-kid.


It's not of any specific import, just one of way too many procedural, plot and character inconsistencies that made the script read like a road map from one SFX shot to the next. I love the majority of Scott's films but he, or somebody, missed too many opportunities.

[Sombras]

Not this again. It clearly states when they arrive that it is LV223. I've seen this error all over the place, and the supposed lack of continuity as a problem with the film when it's you people who didn't pay attention making a mistake. And I don't mean to be rude but anyone who misses this wasn't paying attention.

Isn't this the entire point? They have done this all over the place and Earth is the linked host planet for the LV223, which is why the Engineers from there keep visiting and making contact with humans throughout the ages.

They clearly have a biotech facility and a linked "human" (more one this later) planet. Why? Well it looks like they are making Alien eggs, and in order to do it they need the set up; pluripotential goo (which is why it turns into different stuff) and hosts (humans) to go through the (many) cycles and end up with Alien eggs. This is why the Engineer is heading to Earth - it's his mission and was abandoned 200 years ago. We were never meant to get this technologically advanced. The reason he is in cryo is that he was never woken up and can't very well do so while he is asleep. The other Engineers bungled the mission and got infected/impregnated. This likely happened in the other pyramids and they all came to this one to escape.

With regards to the "why?" - there could be a couple of reasons. 1. That's just the plan; get the numbers up, get the eggs, PROFIT. 2. The initial attack on Earth was supposed to be about 2000 years ago. Given the exposition about faith and creators is this a hint at our failure to recognise our place in the universe - that around the time of Christ it became clear to them that spiritually we had failed to recognise and follow the true "faith"? They left clues after all...

The ship on LV426 is carrying the final cargo but the pilot was obviously impregnated. For whatever reason he has continued on his delivery mission/been volunteered to go on it and succumbed to the Alien and crashed.

Other plot points.

David - on a mission from Weyland. Doesn't know what the goo will do an experiments on a crew member. How is this hard to get?

Shaw - doesn't know how she got infected, only that she has got rid of it. Why would she flip out, especially when doing that will stop her from getting to meet the Engineer and ask her questions.

The 100% DNA question. Not all DNA is expressed all the time. These guys are DNA engineers - they can likely manipulate it well enough to alter sizes. This why earlier I calle dus "humans". We are engineered from them, but that gives no guarantee that we'll be exactly like them, or indeed that all the other "human" planets are like them or us.



They were sent. Ash knew all along.[/QUOTE]