Thank you dema for making a good and elaborate point. And to Azaran as well for not taking my opinion personally.
Even when I wrote that post last night I was aware that my opinion couldn't be made into a law and therefore had a flaw. I anticipated that someone would say Salad Fingers et al. were defacing the evil inside us all or something like that, and who's to say under such circumstances what is good art and what isn't. I would have made the point that Firth is obviously in it for the shock value and I can see nothing else in his comics, eg there are no normally acting people to contrast the madness.
Now Scots has pretty much made this point already.
Maybe I am overly sensible in this regard, but of course it has nothing to do with the country I was born in. It may have something to do with the fact that both my brother and my father have a history of severe psychological illness. Maybe that's why I am already fully aware that this insanity lurks inside all of us, including me. And a news story is indeed enough to point that out for me again, because I readily empathise with the victim as well as the wrongdoer and it just makes me feel powerless and drags me down.
I know it's necessary to acknowledge that part in ourselves. But it doesn't stop there. The reason we must acknowledge our aggressive hateful and violent side is so we can channel it into something that benefits us instead of destroying us. And where is that in Firth's comics?
You might say these comics are Firth's way to deal with these feelings inside himself and it's left up to the audience to do the same. And that presumes all of the audience actually gets that and does the mental work.
But since Firth is giving no hints whatsoever into that direction it's pretty easy to see how some people won't make that jump and instead feel liberated in a different way. Because there's someone who's just as or even more fucked up than they are. So apparently they are okay and don't have to change.
So in my opinion it's fine to uncover the absurdity and insanity of life in art but that's only half of the job.
Last edited by Kolya; 6th Jan 2012 at 06:56.
It sounds horribly conceited because you try to generalise my reaction. But I'm not out to generalise. I do believe art should be free. But that doesn't rid anyone of having to think about it and react to it.
And when I see you laugh at a microcosm that solely consists of suffering, insanity and violence my reaction is to call it and you sick. That's all.
Anyway, here's South of Lincoln with a song for Brian.
Last edited by Kolya; 6th Jan 2012 at 20:57.
That Milkman short, and several others by David Firth, are only for shock value and I don't see them having any artistic value, but I can't say the same for the Salad Fingers shorts, which I think are very clever and unsettling without being overly sadistic. I don't like shocks for shock's sake, and I hate that Milkman short, but I can definitely appreciate Salad Fingers. Have you even watched those, Kolya? Because it seems like you're lumping all of Firth's stuff into one category.
EDIT: just watched the berries one, don't really like it. But Salad Fingers is more or less the same atmosphere but done better, with more surreal elements and without the sadism, try watching it Kolya (the first one isn't great but it picks up after that).
This thread has totally gone to crap.
Haha, a simple GTFO and it all backfires so horribly: www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHebKporeFw
@Kolya, 's cool with me. I've had periods where I didn't want to deal with black surreal stuff either because I had enough to deal with and it was hitting too close to home, so I get the idea. People deal with different art in different ways at different times.
Last edited by demagogue; 6th Jan 2012 at 23:43.
Kolya, please tell me if that video is funny to Germans or if it's just demagogue being kooky.
Oh it's hilarious just that they're animals. Dogs playing poker is a masterwork of artistic satire in Germany too.
If that was an anglo video at the end Gerald would have grabbed whatsername by the nose as soon as she went to sip her drink and then rolled around with her on the floor until she died. The rhino would have had such an adrenaline surge he had a heart attack. The hippo would then have to somehow steer the fight to the swimming pool so he and Gerald would be on equal terms.
In Germany though, just the animals is enough.
(yes this is joke. Or 'a joke' as we like to say)
Dara O'Briain talking about video games.
(I hope this wasn't posted in a previous old thread. Even if it was, it's worth watching again )
I guess I was just being kookie. I had been watching the animations from that account today -- which are all good BTW, watch the "Ring of Fire" one -- and wanted to post one, and that one happened to objectively be one of the best of the lot, and it was sort of a coincidence it was German and that scene... Not really funny except the guy walks in with cake and it ends up not being about him at all, so it's sort of an oblique backhanded defense of Kolya and the whole "GTFO backfiring" following SE (that's what the haha was for, not really the video per se)... But it was just something stupid to post, no deeper meaning really.
Edit: No you're right. I admit I watched it with a warped sense of humor.
Last edited by demagogue; 7th Jan 2012 at 12:24. Reason: detail
Most chances for humour however that could arisen from using animals were passed up in favour of this realism. I don't even think the intention of the creators was to make you laugh at it. I noticed only one point (where the crocodile said "Maybe you don't like my color") were there was a small hint of using the situation for humour. I liked it for how it reflects the absurdity of human relations and the way we speak about them.
And of course I am only speaking for myself here, not for zee Germans.
Here's a video that I think is hilarious, funny and sexy and totally rocking out: My Jerusalem - Sweet Chariot
That was distressingly unfunny, unsexy, and unlistenable.
The song is ok, if you like that sort of thing, but the video is most decidedly neither funny nor sexy. In fact it's surprisingly unsexy, in a nauseating fashion.
I finally get you now Koyla. You're just from the other side of the universe to me. Noted, adjustments applied.
Actually, the specific issue with the croc's food would make you think it very, very odd. That was also the funniest bit about it, imho.. If it wasn't for the animals you might think it's a real situation.
Last edited by SubJeff; 7th Jan 2012 at 20:50.
It was kinda funny, but wears a bit thin by about half way.
The 'stupid drunk girls videoing themselves' sub genre has kinda eaten itself well and truly by now though (what my homies would call "play'd yo". Which my dad would probably pronounce ' Plaid yo').
And germane (ar ar) to the discussion the ol Left Rights -'White' provides the definitive statement, let's not forget.
heh muz thats what I kinda thought was gonna happen in kolyas vid, but it just ended.
I find drunk girls endlessly entertaining, but I can understand if that's not everyone's cup of tea.
Currently I'm mostly watching minecraft videos. Since I got a new computer for xmas I can finally play this game which I bought a long time ago during beta. And I spent the last night completely absorbed in autistic mining and house-building until at six o'clock in the morning it dawned on me that this was starting to feel a bit like work. Still gotta check out some new inventions...
Muz, that video... I went through a gamut of feelings and decided I love it!
Telepathy is not mind reading. It is the direct linking... ...of nervous systems... ...separated by space.
You know, that same vibe that Kolya gets from David Firth's stuff, I kind of get a little from Jhonen Vasquez's stuff. Not Invader Zim, but definitely this video and also the Johnny the Homicidal Maniac comics. I'm not going to rail against him, but I'm a little creeped out by the guy, I wonder what he's trying to say with his art, if anything.
\0/ Yes it's yucky, but you have to love it.
Vasquez isn't to everyone's taste for sure. But Firth is definitely in the Black Surrealism category, where he misses more than hits. Vasquez by contrast is a satirist. He's finding gruesome ways to mock pop culture, high school, childhood etc He's an old fashioned gen X Goth in other words. JtHM is basically a pisstake of self important mopey goth lit and comics. Naturally, proper goths loved it.