System Shock 3: The fanmade re-do

[ThistleStudios]

Greetings fellow TTLG and SShockers! A friend of mine and I have decided to make an unofficial sequel to System Shock 2 as a first project to a new game engine my friend is designing. I have some ideas down on how to segway from the ending to System Shock 2, where Rebecca is possessed by SHODAN 7 million miles from the Von Braun.

As for legal feasibility it is a non-commercial project. I want to combine elements of the first and second games together, and improve on some of the aspects of System Shock 2, such as the upgrading system using Cyber modules. Netplay is a priority for this one, as my friend and I have tried and failed repeatedly to continue off from our 8 hour marathon through the co-op.

So, how does this sound? Recommendations for any software to make 3D models and maps as well?

[ZylonBane]

Oh dear. Guess I'll handle this one.

A friend of mine and I have decided to make an unofficial sequel to System Shock 2 as a first project to a new game engine my friend is designing.

This is, to be blunt, idiotically ambitious. Creating an entire game worthy of the System Shock name from scratch -- plot, engine, graphics, sounds, voicing, modeling, animation, scripting, etc -- with only two people, is pretty much impossible. Most people that show up here with ideas like this have the far more realistic ambition of "only" remaking System Shock 1 in an existing engine, and thus far 100% of them haven't progressed beyond mapping out half of Medical deck before giving up.

I have some ideas down on how to segway from the ending to System Shock 2

The word is "segue". This is a Segway.

As for legal feasibility it is a non-commercial project.

Hahahahahaha NO. Do a little reading on the "foxing" of game mods. Non-commercial status is no protection.

So, how does this sound?

Profoundly and literally clueless.

Recommendations for any software to make 3D models and maps as well?

Your friend is creating the engine and you're asking for mapping software? WTF? Map creation is intrinsically tied to the engine that the maps will be running on. Unless he's planning on making his engine compatible with an existing map format, he's gonna be making his own map editor.

Look, what do you REALLY want? Do you want to play around with making your own FPS game? Or do you want to give back to the System Shock community? Because you can't do both.

[Briareos H]

And the last unofficial, non-profit System Shock sequel was C&Ded down by EA (search for Sapphire Scar).

[ThistleStudios]

*Sigh* I knew EA would have a problem with this. I discussed it with someone and they thought it should have been okay, but since EA owns all the intellectual properties of the System Shock series, they will shoot down anyone who even attempts to resurrect the series either officially or unofficially.

Stupidly ambitious yes, moronic too, considering my inexperience as a programmer but what if an end result did become of this? I guess an end result would result with a C&D for using the title and the continuing story from the last game with many of the elements from the two games joined... Is there any way a result can come about of this without a C&D from EA?

In response to your question ZylonBane, I DO want to give back to the community. The System Shock series deserves a third game, and even if it is made by two dopes with outrageous ambitions then so be it!

[ZylonBane]

The System Shock series deserves a third game, and even if it is made by two dopes with outrageous ambitions then so be it!

This is equivalent to saying that SS deserves a bad third game, which clearly it does not. If it's not made by Irrational, or some other company with a significant dose of Looking Glass DNA, it's not SS3.

What one or two people can reasonably do is contribute to the SS2 modding/mapping community. Just look at all the mods here.

Have you even played through Ponterbee Station yet?

[ThistleStudios]

Wish I could. I downloaded the mod and gave it a go, but the game crashes due to fault USER32.dll whenever I go in the conference room...

[icemann]

Well nothings stopping you & your friend from going and making some FM's. There's been a severe lack of them these days. Be good to play some new ones.

[JediKorenchkin]

And the last unofficial, non-profit System Shock sequel was C&Ded down by EA (search for Sapphire Scar).

*Is flattered to be remembered*

[fetgalningen]

There was this guy whose project in life was about deciphering the SS2 engine or some such. He were making random posts on a irregular basis concerning his/its progress with the scripting. Must have been criminally insane. What became of him?

Just link to his madman ramblings and it should deter anyone from starting such a project.

[RocketMan]

Thistle there is a solution if you are willing to be more realistic with your expectations. Using the ss2 editor to create a fan mission is perfectly legal. Since it's a fan mission and you're using the game's own technology and assets, you can call it what you want and do with it what you want (unless there's a caveat I'm missing here). You have to resign yourself to working with old tech but at least a big chunk of the work is already done (not that there isn't a huge amount left). There are already people engaged in several fan missions who you could collaborate with and you're far more likely to realize some sort of end product that way. I suggest you go along that path. Check in at SMA too as an additional resource.

[ThistleStudios]

Well, surely there has to be some kind of workaround? I read that the trademark for SS expired, but sadly EA renewed it. I know they want to keep their intellectual property, but aggressively shooting down anyone who wants to take a shot at reviving the series is really dickish, even for a large scale games company. Fan missions are cool and all, but making a whole new game from scratch is a completely different thing entirely. I hope Ken Levine can strike a deal with EA to make a third game, because the SS community needs another good System Shock game. BioShock was okay, but its mechanics were severely dumbed down for System Shock-er's to take too seriously.

Besides, fan missions for some reason don't agree with my computer :S

[ZylonBane]

Fan missions are cool and all, but making a whole new game from scratch is a completely different thing entirely.

True. The former can actually be accomplished by fans. The latter, in this context, can not.

You should be concentrating on figuring out why your system doesn't play well with fan missions. If you're not up to a basic technical hurdle like that, you're certainly not going to accomplish anything even more ambitious.

[Briareos H]

A small game from scratch could work if it did use technology that doesn't require a huge amount of assets. A System Shock inspired adventure using Revert3D would be great, and feasible for a small team. And that engine is perfect for recreating the Shock feel.

[RocketMan]

Thistle, if we disregard the project you mentioned of making a new engine, what sorts of gaming skills do you have and how proficient are you with them? I'm talking about things like modelling, texturing, voice acting, sound/music creation and editing, using a level editor like ShockED, etc.

[icemann]

Well, surely there has to be some kind of workaround? I read that the trademark for SS expired, but sadly EA renewed it. I know they want to keep their intellectual property, but aggressively shooting down anyone who wants to take a shot at reviving the series is really dickish, even for a large scale games company. Fan missions are cool and all, but making a whole new game from scratch is a completely different thing entirely. I hope Ken Levine can strike a deal with EA to make a third game, because the SS community needs another good System Shock game. BioShock was okay, but its mechanics were severely dumbed down for System Shock-er's to take too seriously.

End of the day, System Shock 3 fan made, not going to happen ever. Either make a fan mission or don't bother. It's that simple.

Besides, fan missions for some reason don't agree with my computer :S.

That's nothing alittle troubleshooting wouldn't fix. In the time that this topic has been up, you'd have had dromed working and had something of a fan mission done. Less talk, more action.

[RocketMan]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say a fan-made continuation will never happen but it is true that lately, the ss2 FM activity level has been pretty much null.

For all the criticisms we make of the over-ambitious, less than experienced noobs that join from time to time, I think we ought to direct some of that back at ourselves. We have to be mindful that newcomers aren't necessarily aware of what's been tried, what hasn't worked, etc. and their ambitions are not properly balanced by the sort of realistic expectations that develop from being around the forums long enough to see projects come and go. We end up deterring talented people more often than we should when we should be trying to point them in the right direction so they can channel their energy in a productive way. After all, we're all on the same team in a sense since we are just happy to share our common interest with other people. Since the veterans on the forum have more "presence" we tend to steer the fate of the community as we see fit. I think we could do a better job behind the wheel.

[demagogue]

They've already given you the best advice. Make a SS2 FM! Just adapt your story to one level, or if you're really ambitious, two people can get away with a three level mini-campaign. (If you're Christine-level ambitious, you can get away with even more.) You can add some custom mods & models that have already been made to improve on the base game. And, most importantly, people will play it and it will be better than the gutterware most homebrew games turn out to be when they try to reinvent the wheel from scratch. If FMs aren't working for your system, there is surely a fix to get them to.

[JediKorenchkin]

I meant to keep this online for anyone who wanted to see it. It may be applicable in this situation.

http://mpelletier.net/temp/dead_letter/

[ZylonBane]

That's why I linked to it in my first post.

[JediKorenchkin]

That's why I linked to it in my first post.

I missed that! I didn't actually know that anyone actually had that link, it had been on a different domain previously.

[ZylonBane]

Google-fu!

[Zelzer]

I just want SS3, but from Ken Levine.

EA would obviously continue the series if the title was popular, and therefore profitable. But now there is just a small community, and not very colorful past of the title. The prospects are very weak. So EA obviously doesn't want to risk.
The best way to interest EA, as I think, is to increase the popularity of System Shock series. For example, to create a free remake of SS2. A few years ago there was an attempt to do it, but EA just cut it off. But it was long time ago, in 2004. I think that its time for another attempt for remake. And the first step must be to ask permision from EA. So if you want some concrete actions, lets write a request and see the response from EA.

[icemann]

Be careful what you wish for. Last time EA released a sequel to a long stagnant series we got a pathetic game that had nothing at all whatsoever to do with the previous games (Wing Commander Arena).

[redrain85]

It's strange how people can do a Wing Commander total conversion for Freespace 2, and EA won't bat an eye. But for anyone planning something System Shock related? Immediate cease-and-desist.

I take it, then, that EA still has some sort of plan for System Shock. While WC is dead to them.

[Al_B]

I suspect the main reason is that the people who did the freespace 2 mod didn't contact EA and explicitly request permission to use Wing Commander in that way. If they had then I've no doubt they'd have received the same response.