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Thread: [Thief 2] The TDS City Project

  1. #1

    [Thief 2] The TDS City Project

    Okay, guys, this might be the start of something beautiful.

    This is now the official thread to my rebuild project of the Thief Deadly Shadows City - certainly without loading zones (or at least not with that much). This is NOT really an FM, however, it's up to you to make one of it or at least integrate it into your own.

    Hopefully now all credits are mentioned in the info document inside the file.

    Current build: TDS City 319 (17th Aug 2010)

    Screenshots

    Enjoy and feel free to discuss!

    This is an open mission project. Feel free to use the map for your own missions - just credit me and everyone I credited myself - and change it if necessary. =)
    Last edited by Child Of Karras; 18th Aug 2010 at 14:08.

  2. #2
    It's very interesting. Though I'm not sure it's a good idea to port city parts from TDS to T2, I'll be interested to see the progress

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Texas
    This may be a violation. I know that Belboz did some thief gold missions and all for thief 2 and ttlg refused to allow posts or hosting because of legal issues. This is kinda the same thing I believe, but be safe and check it out. Nightwalker can set this straight.

    Edit: I do think its a great idea though.

  4. #4
    This is also what I thought, but I have enough black points for pointing out legal issues on this board.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Location: The limbo region of hell
    It probably is an issue, but really shouldn't be.

    Ports of the TG missions allow someone who never bought TG to play the missions (not that I think that's a bad thing at this point, personally). It gives them access to the plot, and objectives.

    The city from TDS on the other hand is what? It is just an empty set you wander around in, it doesn't have goals, or content really, it's just architecture with no real meaning behind it. And that's true for it in the game itself. I understand what it tried to be, but it failed in that regard mostly. A port of it takes very little, if anything, away from TDS imho, as long as no mission areas from TDS are included.

    It would essentially be the same thing as taking the Lord Bafford neighborhood, and closing off the manor/leaving the manor area unbuilt. Or the neighborhood from Assassins minus Lord whatshisnames manor from that one. Just on a larger scale.

    Just my personal opinion.
    Last edited by kamyk; 20th Oct 2009 at 17:38.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Southquarter
    What Kamyk said. If someone tried to recreate a proper TDS mission as close to the original as possible, with the same objectives, story, characters etc., now that would probably count as a copyright violation.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Belboz tried to make exact copies of the Thief 1 missions for Thief 2, making it possible to play parts of Thief 1 without owning the original game. I think that was the major point of criticism back then.

    Other people who only copied parts of original levels (e.g., parts of Cragscleft prison in the T2 FM "Dirty Business") were allowed to publish these levels. I guess that if one just mimicks/copies the TDS city layout and maybe parts of the shops, but not the actual T3 missions, one might be spared from the wrath of the administrators around here. Hey, someone even copied two levels from the original DOOM game and received no punishment (as far as I know).

    Two other missions were heavily inspired by the Tomb Raider games. One was done by Yandros. The other mission was meant to resemble the Cistern level from the first Tomb Raider. Both missions have been published without any riots breaking out.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    Location: Spain
    I don't know really much about legal issues on this series, but it will be beautiful to play. Thanks!

  9. #9
    Somehow I expected these discussions. ^^ How would the situation change if someone wrote a completely different story about it and maybe does some modification like Mechanical influences?

  10. #10
    I think the idea that a company is going to sue over a fan mission recreation of an area in a completely different game is pretty silly. No money is changing hands and the levels are not being imported directly unchanged.

  11. #11
    Clearinghouse
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Siberia, Russia
    Downloading. Thank you, CoK!

  12. #12
    jtr7
    Guest
    If it impacts sales or threatens to, a cease and desist letter may come. Stupid or not, whether it happens or not, just don't risk going so far as to recreate the T3 game at TTLG's expense. Building those city sections is fine. And CoK shouldn't worry about anything but time and effort doing something very cool.

  13. #13
    Thanks.

    BTW: If anyone manages to take screenshots with the bloom effect and fog, I'd appreciate it. I tried myself, but when using the bloom ddifx engine my fog disappears.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    Great I can play this now! I've followed the project with much interest and I'll play it immediately. Thanks CoK!

    Edit: Love the pool on the roof!
    Last edited by PotatoGuy; 21st Oct 2009 at 07:38.

  15. #15
    those screenies look awesome..

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Nottingham, England
    Personally I don't see why there would be any kind of legal problem.

    It's not like you're importing the actual geometry created by ISA into the Thief 2 engine, or trying to recreate the actual game of TDS for T2 or anything like that.

    In no way would this "give the TDS experience without buying TDS". In fact, this kind of "experiment" would only be of interest to people who have played TDS.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jtr7 View Post
    If it impacts sales or threatens to, a cease and desist letter may come. Stupid or not, whether it happens or not, just don't risk going so far as to recreate the T3 game at TTLG's expense. Building those city sections is fine. And CoK shouldn't worry about anything but time and effort doing something very cool.
    Does anyone really think this is going to impact sales of Deadly Shadows? I mean, really? Lets be realistic here.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007
    Location: Germany
    Great job Child Of Karras! Now this is Thief!
    Please continue your work...

  19. #19
    I wonder if anybody would be willing to host this, cause the speeds are insanely slow.

  20. #20
    I can put it on my shackspace when I get home. That's pretty fast.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    There are no copyright issues with a project like this as long as original digital TDS content isn't used in any way.

    So no need to worry and keep up the good work .

    EDIT:

    I gave it a shot and saw that many TDS models were used. This may be a copyright issue but since the models stay within a Thief game it shouldn't cause a fuss.
    Last edited by Wille; 21st Oct 2009 at 18:48.

  22. #22
    I got the impression that the enhancement pack actually uses some TDS stuff already...in fact, there is a lot of cross-over of models and objects into T2 from different games.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    I'm pretty sure the EP doesn't use anything from TDS, since the point of the EP is not just to provide more detailed textures, but to ensure they look like higher-res versions of the originals.

  24. #24
    jtr7
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by SneakyJack View Post
    Does anyone really think this is going to impact sales of Deadly Shadows? I mean, really? Lets be realistic here.
    IF, man, IF... It's conditional. IF it doesn't meet that condition, it doesn't happen. And don't assume somebody won't say something on principle, lest they look lax.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Marlboro, MA, USA
    Those shots look very cool! Excellent job on recreating those areas, I had no trouble recognizing pretty much all the shots!
    The Keep for Thief 1 and 2 FMs, Shadowdark for Thief 3 and Dark Mod FMs

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