TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile

View Poll Results: What do you prefer playing

Voters
129. You may not vote on this poll
  • T1/G Fanmissions

    24 18.60%
  • T2 Fanmissions

    110 85.27%
  • T3 Fanmission

    11 8.53%
  • Darkmod Fanmissions

    33 25.58%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 90

Thread: What do you like best: T1/G, T2 , T3 or Darkmod FM's

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Russia
    I have never played any of T3 FMs because of a stupid loading way. And I've played 2 missions of TDM. That was enough.
    T1 is quite good for me, but I can't remember (m)any new FMs. So I voted for T2, there is no really choice.

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: The Netherlands
    Bedwine, you are so right

    Quote Originally Posted by edudrekib View Post
    But of course T2 still have its place but good FM's for T2 are getting rare theses days.
    Better off dead is recently released and a new one is coming up real soon

    There're angels who playThief and angels who don't ........ both go to heaven ............
    Dare to join .............

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria Creep View Post

    Better off dead is recently released and a new one is coming up real soon

    You are damn right Gloria.
    And 'Black Frog', 'Rocksbourgh 4' (just the ones that come to my mind rightaway) will once again beat TDM hands down !

    Ok, here are my favorites:

    T2...TDM.......T1/TDS

    Reasons for my vote:
    T2 : allows BIIIIG missions and awesome athmosphere with lots of custom texturing etc. at the same time.
    TDM : has awesome graphics and very good gamesplay (comparable to T2, but I really love the lockpicking in TDM), but I feel all the FMs are still rather limited (from mapsize perspective & AI variety)
    T1 : suffers a little bit from lack of custom stuff (but it's OM was always best for me), although it would have similar potential like T2
    TDS : I never really enjoyed the gamesplay (poor mantling, no ropearrows, loading zones, ... sparkling loot)
    Last edited by gnartsch; 27th Feb 2012 at 15:36.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria Creep View Post

    PS: I'm not sure if there's not a difference between T3 and Darkmod FM's, since I don't play those ....
    Sorry if I sound stupid, but I still want to put in a poll here.
    Aww... We even got a little Gummy Droops doll for ya.

    Darkmod is MUCH more like T1/2. I liked T3 but...you know, no rope arrows, no swimming, annoying mid-level load zones....

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Quote Originally Posted by Zontik View Post
    And I've played 2 missions of TDM. That was enough.
    Which 2? When? TDM 1.08 is in the works and there are what, 40+ FM's.

    So if it was gameplay you didn't like for some reason there's a good chance it's been improved since then. And if you weren't happy with the FM's there are some really good ones out these days, they are getting bigger, more complex and just better all the time.

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Quote Originally Posted by bassmanret View Post
    but have always planned on trying it once I've finished playing Doom 3. So, I'll be trying TDM soon.
    You should, it has been improved a tons since release. And no reason to even play Doom3. Sure you payed a few bucks for it but that was to play TDM right?
    It's not like TDM has ANYTHING to do with Doom3 at all. It's not a sequel, similar gameplay... It just uses that engine. Thief and system shock use the same engine as each other and probably have more similarities.

    Quote Originally Posted by bedwine View Post
    My criticism of TDM as great as it is... It lacks game-play. The common element is that it tries to make thief more realistic. MORE REALISTIC! Thief is a fantasy. The game-play is a fantasy. Why make it realistic? What I see is a constant diversion to turn "Thief" into either a "First person shooter" or a "Tomb Raider" type of mouse clicks and jumping extortions with a keypad. Thief is what it is. Constantly trying to change into something else does not work.
    Honestly i don't get this at all. It's like the Doom3 is 'plasticy' argument. Sure, Doom3 shaders might have looked plasticy, but TDM has it's own shaders for everything, we don't use the overdone specular everywhere like Doom3.

    or the 'it's Doom3 not thief' argument. It's been in development for 7 years now, it's pretty close to stand-alone as far as that goes.

    And why wouldn't you want the game to be more realistic. T1/2 were great no doubt. But do the stiff corpses that half disappear into walls make it better? Any realism that is attempted to be gained in TDM is to make it more realistic for a thief's experience.

    It has NOTHING to do with a first person shooter. Smarter Ai make it feel more like a shooter? Because it forces you to be a better sneaker? I don't get the logic there. One of the recent ai improvements was guards looking up rope arrows that they notice. I just experienced it last week for the first time, it was awesome.

    And we're not trying to get rid of the 'fantasy' of Thief. We have glowing mushrooms/crystals, potions, rope arrows, moss arrows that grow and can be watered to grow more...Undead, holy water...Steambots.
    Don't confuse realism with lack of fantasy. Realism means the world and it's inhabitants respond more in a more realistic manner. We basically have all the fantasy elements the original games had (though we are lacking in treebeasts, apemen...).

    But now you can put out a torch and an Ai might notice it.

    And I don't know what these 'extortions' of the keypad you are speaking of are. The jump key? Thief has that too. Not like we have double jump, that's Unreal. Tomb Raider? That's as fantasy as thief is, it's also an 'action puzzle' game. There are plenty of puzzles in thief 1 and 2 and FM's, why is TDM any more like TR than T2? Because you can now swing on a rope to get a little further in a jump? Or because you can mantle easier without falling?
    That's a slight improvement in movement, not a wild attempt at cloning tomb raider.

    I think you have TDM all wrong. We are not trying to change Thief into something better, we DID change Doom3 into something better. We moved thief 1/2 into a newer age if anything.
    Your argument is completely backwards, by it I'd think we were trying to change Thief into Doom3.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Just I tried (as i promised), with the latest upgrade and latest missions, but is still not the real Thief universe. As they said above, Thief is a fantasy game and there is no need for realistic elements. That body carrying is a pain, the blackjack is still a pain, the arrow shot is a pain. The game is beautiful, but that's all. So many reloads, so many annoying things to finish a mission.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Thief is full of "realistic elements". More than 90% of what you see and hear in the games is grounded on your personal (and thus realistic, hopefully) understanding of the world. Brick walls are solid and don't jump around. Armed guards get alert if they see an intruder. One might even argue that the fantasy/magic elements are realistic because they usually have an inherent logic and most of the elements of Thief are already part of pop culture, meaning that they're also part of the "realism" you grew up with. Making a game that intentionally breaks with these rules would indeed be kafkaesque...and most interesting.

    If the Dark Mod guys try to make their system more "realistic" in this respect, it's probably the best they can do.

    But IMHO it still looks like plastic. The architecture you can see lately ist great and beautiful, but the overall look is still not significantly better than years ago. Hence my first comment in this thread. Even if TDS looks cartoony with respect to some AIs, the overall look is IMHO far more organic.

  9. #34
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Schwaa2: "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    This will not be Thief even then.

    Ez még akkor sem lesz Thief.


  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: The Netherlands
    can someone tell me what IMHO means???

    There're angels who playThief and angels who don't ........ both go to heaven ............
    Dare to join .............

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post

    But IMHO it still looks like plastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melan View Post
    Schwaa2: "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
    ^lol. I know, plasticy but nobody ever offers up a meaning for what that really is, I think it's just become the 'easy bash'. I don't like it because. Why? Because.

    T3 characters have bug eyes, but it doesn't look plasticy. All the models are oversized cartoony, but it's not plasticy. Plastic has certain properties so when something looks plasticy it is because it resembles plastic (typically a hard white specular shine which Doom3 had a lot of)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensut View Post
    Just I tried (as i promised), with the latest upgrade and latest missions, but is still not the real Thief universe. As they said above, Thief is a fantasy game and there is no need for realistic elements. That body carrying is a pain, the blackjack is still a pain, the arrow shot is a pain. The game is beautiful, but that's all. So many reloads, so many annoying things to finish a mission.
    No, it isn't the 'Thief Universe', that would be violating copywrites.

    No need for realistic elements? really. So people need to be removed. That's realistic. Or maybe they just need to fly, because that's not. Lights need to work on magic only, again, LGS got that one wrong.
    This is an insane argument. That realism doesn't belong in Thief. Like Beleg said, thief is 90% realistic. Yes it has fantasy elements, but that doesn't discount the reality it contains. Nor does it remove fantasy elements from TDM.

    No, it's not neccesary to gameplay to have bodies that don't get Rigor Mortis before they hit the ground. But that wasn't LGS's 'thief lore', that was just an issue with an old game.
    But would TDM be better if we had purposely made the bodies planks?

    Body carrying is a pain because you click it and hit a button instead of just clicking it? Because you have a choice to drag a body instead?
    BJ works just as good as T2.
    Arrowshot (with the optional aimer) is dead on.

    Sounds like you need practice is all. Of course it's not a 100% clone of T2, but it's really not that far off.
    'So many annoying things to finish an FM'
    Again another broad generalization IMHO. Finishing the objectives is too much of a pain-FM not TDM. Too many screens to click at the end? well, you do have the option choice of looking at stats with some stats T2 didn't have.
    How is it harder to finish a TDM FM than a T2 FM (given you played the exact same FM's in both engines)? It's the same menus, objective systems, etc..

    I could understand that point IF you were talking about Assassin's Creed. That game literally took 5 minutes to play and 5 to quit. When you quit you have to time warp back to real time, then watch the stand up out of bed animation, then OK the quit, the OK the OK...
    I still haven't played it more than 3 times and about 30 minutes total because it took so long.
    It was a very annoying system and very consolized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria Creep View Post
    can someone tell me what IMHO means???

    In My Humble Opinion


    ---
    but I digress, not trying to turn this into a TDM thread, just trying to dispell the common oft repeated pre-mis-conceptions.

    I may be defending TDM but I am not a 'fanboy'. If something is wrong I will say it. TDM isn't prefect by any means. But neither was T2 or T3.

    I just don't want people put off trying it because they hear these critiques that seem to mainly be stemming from past critiques, that in themselves stemmed from some sort of 'thief fan boy hatred'. And nobody even remembers why they feel this way, they just do because they are 'supposed' to to be a 'true thief fan'.

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: The Netherlands
    IMHO: Thanks for the explanation. Now I just need to remember this
    There're angels who playThief and angels who don't ........ both go to heaven ............
    Dare to join .............

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Practically I have trouble with the player movement in TDM. The player's motion is so vague somehow and from this the treatment of the weapons is difficult for me. But it's only the question of the practice, although the same one in TDS, in 1st person view, I could never get used. And from this everything becomes more difficult, many times I get caught and I need to reload. But I make an attempt yet

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwaa2 View Post
    You should, it has been improved a tons since release. And no reason to even play Doom3. Sure you payed a few bucks for it but that was to play TDM right?
    Actually, no. I bought Doom 3 within a year of its release to play Doom 3 because Doom 1 & 2 were the first games I can remember really "playing the freakin' crap out of" on the first PC I'd ever owned, and I'd hoped to like 3 as much as 1 & 2. TDM showed up quite a while after I'd already bought it, which to me seemed kind of like free DLC or a free expansion to a game I already owned, so you'll get no preconceived TDM-negativity from me. Free is good. I like free.
    It took me years to even start playing Doom 3, and then, obviously, I was/am disappointed with it, but the completionist in me still felt the need to finish it before moving on to "extra stuff" like TDM. As I said, though, I'm feeling much less of that need, and so will be trying out TDM soon. I just have a handful of the most recent T2 and TG FMs to finish, after which I'll be completely caught up, and will have played all Thief (1, 2 & 3) FMs every made.

    And, yes, I totally understand that TDM is nothing like Doom 3 and is a completely different game.

    I'm sure it must be frustrating for TDM fans to hear what they feel are unsupported criticisms, but it seems even more difficult and frustrating to attempt to persuade/explain why the criticisms may not be accurate in a way that does not come across as combative or insulting, thus achieving the opposite goal of pushing potential players away.

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwaa2 View Post
    ^lol. I know, plasticy but nobody ever offers up a meaning for what that really is, I think it's just become the 'easy bash'. I don't like it because. Why? Because.
    That's not what I said, I'm not after changing personal opinions or impressions but after something more or less factual. I wouldn't care to say that I simply didn't like DM, but if people e.g. say that DM looks better than TDS, I can't help but think of the Emperor's new clothes. In this case please compare...
    this... to this (sorry Melan, it just was the first scenery that fit...and it isn't the Dark Mod's beta stage)... and now tell me that the latter doesn't look like plastic or shiny or new and unorganic. It is personal opinion to consider either the more sober, gritty or the shiny unorganic one to be more fit for the Thief universe (I'd opt for the first of course), but it should be possible to state on a more or less objective base that the DM screenshots show much more "polished" surfaces. That's IMO why it worked for Doom's futuristic setting. That's not saying that the TDS look is perfect, the grey veil seems a bit much to me in this example, too (and I didn't even mention the blue fog).

    Again, just to be extra sure: I'm not referring to architecture (what Melan does is great) or the efforts of the DM team in general. Their work is admirable, but it would be wrong not to give precise feedback.

    PS: This is by the way something I criticised/remarked from early on. If you use the forum search function with my user name and the search term "organic" you should be able to find posts from years ago.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Beleg, I think TDM graphics are much better mainly because of the bump-mapping: compared to TDM, T3 looks more coarse and pixelated. TDM on the other hand has extremely fine bump mapping, and also in my opinion better drop shadows, water and surface reflection & lighting effects.


    Tell me that's not gorgeous

    Ultimately, we all see thing a bit differently, but the first thing I noticed after I first played TDM (I'd been playing T3 for a while already) were the graphics. I almost fell off my chair.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    If (vanilla?) TDS looks more coarse, it might have something to do with the game assets being five years older. And I don't think it's about bump mapping either. Normal mapping and shadows (albeit as annoyingly sharp as in TDM) in TDS are IMHO the least things to worry about in its graphics. Cubemapping and specularity have also been researched thanks to Judith (who also provided a showcase FM for it, by the way the "water" in my example image is his work). I don't know, TDM's colourful appearance might be closer to T1/2 in some respects, but it feels odd to me in a modern game.

    Anyway, I just wasted my time to sort-of copy this scenery. All textures except for the loot and lamp hanger ones are custom/JohnP.



    Try a side-by-side comparison. You see, aside from the obvious differences in texturing, objects etc. the main difference is IMHO that in T3Ed things look more like made of one piece, as if they're all parts of a still life, whereas in TDM all objects look like thrown together, coming from everywhere, and everything was made of painted epoxy resin. Tastes are different, though, as you already noted.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Cambridgeshire UK
    Although TDM graphics are the best I prefer playing T2 FMs because I am more comfortable in the T2 environment - look, feel and gameplay. It appears that the vast majority agree with me.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    @Beleg,

    Well comparing apples to oranges is no way to make a point. You pick a dark and dirty T3 shot and compare it to a brightly lit polish wood mansion shot from TDM and say all of TDM looks shiny compared to T3.

    In the shot Azaran posted you see more of a variety and things to compare. Are the dirty items shiny? Glossy? plastic coated resin?
    And the fact that T3 stuff is 'older' is not a good excuse either really. I made that teapot 4 years ago so it's not exactly new.
    The reason T3 is so grainy and objects 'look old', ie: low poly I assume is what you mean is because it was developed for a console with limited HD space.

    The reason T3 stuff all looks the same is because it is. There's actually a pretty limited palette of objects to use. I'd bet TDM has twice the resources in that department. But it's up to authors to not mix match too much. We've got large sets of matching items for a lot of areas.

    There are some great recent shots at TDM forums of foglights that look much like the blue fog there, be that author posted 4-5 variations, all 0of which look better than the overly thick blue tds fog.

    Now I know I'm not going to win you over or change your mind. But maybe someone reading your arguments will see mine and realize that yours don't make that much sense

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    If you criticise apples and oranges thrown together, why do you bring bananas and coconuts yourself? Objects looking "the same" and blue fog issues have nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. TDM looks more shiny and yes, also the bricks and the sink look more like plastic props than the T3Ed ones do.

    Plus, saying "we can make dozens of new pretty objects that 2004 TDS will never have" doesn't exactly make more sense than my post.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007
    Location: Germany
    How come such threads always end up the same way: "TDM vs. T1/T2/TDS"? Couldn't you just accept or simply ignore the opinion of someone who doesn't like your favourite?

    Up until now I prefer T2 for the variety of missions available.

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    Location: Great northern city
    Why the sum is more than 100 %?

  24. #49
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Some people are voting for more than one choice, if there is a tie for their favorite one. In fact you can tell exactly how many, the % that is over 100%.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Russia
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwaa2 View Post
    Which 2? When?
    I'm sure it was improved since that time (you are right in your suspicions, it was long ago). Don't want to say any offensive about TDM, but it is not for me. T2 is my love, maybe T1. It's just a question of taste.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •