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Thread: Sneaky Upgrade: Unofficial patch for Thief 3

  1. #1126
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    First there is no mouse pointer. I do not mean it is frozen, just that it is invisible. If you correctly guess the correct spot and click it will activate the option as normal.
    Could be the same bug. Sometimes the pointer is invisible, somtimes it's frozen in the center. But the fix should be on by default. Better check on the tweaker's Troubleshooting page that it is. (And unless you've increased the scaling in the Windows settings then it shouldn't be necessary.) If you do have increased scaling and the fix is on, try turning it off and see if it makes a difference. If not, try setting the scaling back to 100%.

    Which Windows version do you have?

    Second, I switched on HW sound mixing and the sound went off completely.
    This is 'normal'. You need specific sound HW for that to work. (If you do have such HW hopefully somebody else can help, because I don't...)

  2. #1127
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Managed to fix the HW thing by enabling T3 in Creative ALchemy.

    Am using Win 8. The cursor appears if I run in borderless or windowed mode, but that breaks brightness.

    Had not changed any scaling option in Display section. Also freeze fix was enabled.

    Could you remind me which file you delete to enable the windows pointer in game? Maybe that will fix it. Thanks.

  3. #1128
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    The original discovery of the fix is here. But the SU fix more or less does the same thing only internally, so I wouldn't expect any difference. Try it anyway - if it works there must be a bug somewhere. Turn off the SU fix first.

  4. #1129
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Hello again. As predicted trying the ini hack did nothing.

    Interestingly I installed a fresh copy of T3, did the ini tweak and that worked. Windows mouse pointer visible and moving in-game. Installed SU and without changing anything in the tweaker the pointer disappeared again. Then tried disabling the mouse fix in the tweaker but still no windows pointer in-game.

    Using the handy archive page I downloaded vr 1.1.4 which was a version from around the last time I played T3 in 2015, and while it did not offer a mouse fix it at least did not prevent the manual ini hack from working.

    So it looks as if something has changed within SU between 2015 and now which means that on my system at least, the mouse fixes are broken.

    Can you think of anything obvious such as a change in some default option between SU then and now which might be causing this? I've had a look at the default display options and I think they are the same between both versions, but I might have missed something.

    Will play with 1.1.4 if I have to but thought I would check for any changes you can think of, that possibly could be restored in current SU, since I would like to give the new Inn mission in T3G a go.

    On another note, is the "mouse improvements" tweak from 1.1.4. removed from current SU?
    Last edited by Cigam; 21st Aug 2017 at 15:10.

  5. #1130
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    One more thing, how would you do a complete uninstall of a SUed T3? If you uninstall T3 will that remove all the SU and T3G and MP etc files? If files are installed outside of your T3 folder, what are their locations? Thanks.
    Last edited by Cigam; 22nd Aug 2017 at 00:24.

  6. #1131
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    Using the handy archive page I downloaded vr 1.1.4 which was a version from around the last time I played T3 in 2015, and while it did not offer a mouse fix it at least did not prevent the manual ini hack from working.
    Sounds like something did break along the way... I'll see if I can have a look at it this weekend.

    Can you think of anything obvious such as a change in some default option between SU then and now which might be causing this? I've had a look at the default display options and I think they are the same between both versions, but I might have missed something.
    Originally the option for the fix was a DPI setting, above which the fix would kick in (with special values to disable or force on). But for a long time there were no problems with it, so I changed it to forced-on by default, with an option to disable. Internally it's still a DPI value, IIRC.

    If you look in SneakyOptions.ini, what value do you have? (I forget the name of the option but it's likely to have "DPI" in the name.)

    On another note, is the "mouse improvements" tweak from 1.1.4. removed from current SU?
    That tweak actually combined two tweaks, one of which is now always enabled. The remaining one was renamed. (Don't remember the name, but something to do with rotational blur.)

    One more thing, how would you do a complete uninstall of a SUed T3? If you uninstall T3 will that remove all the SU and T3G and MP etc files? If files are installed outside of your T3 folder, what are their locations? Thanks.
    Uninstall the SU first, otherwise the game won't uninstall cleanly. Uninstalling the SU will remove mods and options if you choose to, but not installed FMs. Even if you uninstall all FMs first you've probably have to clean up manually because of the fmsel.ini file. (Fixing this is on the to-do list...) Just go to the (normally hidden) C:\ProgramData folder and delete the Thief 3 Sneaky Upgrade folder there.

  7. #1132
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Thanks for the information. 114 did not have a mouse fix in the tweaker and nor did it have anything that looked like one in the ini.

    Done some more testing, and for whatever reason none of the SUs I tried allowed an in-game T3 pointer.

    114 and 115 did not offer a fix but at least they did not prevent the manual ini tweak from allowing the windows pointer to appear in-game.

    116, 117 & 118 did offer a fix, but it did not work. And they prevented the windows pointer manual fix from working, even when I was careful to disable the SU fix in the tweaker.

    So looks like I will be using 115 as at least I can get the windows pointer working with it. But I would also like to play the new Inn mission, so can you forsee any problems if I do the following.

    Install T3
    Install SU 118 fat
    Uninstall SU 118 removing all settings file it asks about, but leaving the T3G etc mods installed
    Install SU 115 thin

    Is there anything in the new T3G that requires newer SU, or is there anyother reasons this should cause problems? Thanks.
    Last edited by Cigam; 23rd Aug 2017 at 01:13.

  8. #1133
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    I did some testing, using SU 1.1.8 on Win10. It works for me, fix on or off, and also with the fix off and the ImageFile line commented out in Default.ini.

    Hard to say what makes things different for you, but please try this version, which takes extra care to not do anything cursor-related when the fix is off:

    1. Use a fresh SneakyOptions.ini file
    2. With the fix enabled (there's a chance it may work now), see if you get a T3 cursor (upside down to indicate that the internal fix is active)
    3. With the fix disabled and the ImageFile line commented out, see if you get the standard Windows cursor

    If nothing works, then installing 1.1.5 as you describe should be fine.

  9. #1134
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Thanks for that. The new SU's fix did not work unfortunately - pointer moves but is invisible, still. But at least the manual tweak now does.

    I do use a high DPI of 150% in my Win 8 with a GTX 980, if that has anything to do with it.

    But for now I am content enough to use the windows pointer in-game, so thanks for helping me get up and running.
    Last edited by Cigam; 24th Aug 2017 at 01:03.

  10. #1135
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    That tweak actually combined two tweaks, one of which is now always enabled. The remaining one was renamed. (Don't remember the name, but something to do with rotational blur.)
    Yes. Now they're separate (mouse fix and rotational blur - actually a rotational resolution scaling )

    Ah, good news: it seems reShade (3.0.8) compatibility with dgVoodoo2 is grown, the loading bar fix is no more required (but leave the option in SU, please ) to avoid the startup hanging.

  11. #1136
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    I spoke too soon

    Just tried fresh install of T3 and the new 118502 and manual tweak did not work even after disabling in the tweaker. No idea why it worked the first time.

    Think we'll just have to chalk it up to being a quirk of my system.

    So, installed 115 fat and manually replaced the T3G install folder with the one from 118, and it seems to work in that I get the Inn without scripts.

    Thanks again for the help anyway Snobel.

  12. #1137
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    Ah, good news: it seems reShade (3.0.8) compatibility with dgVoodoo2 is grown, the loading bar fix is no more required (but leave the option in SU, please ) to avoid the startup hanging.
    Good news indeed. (And OK, the option stays. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    Just tried fresh install of T3 and the new 118502 and manual tweak did not work even after disabling in the tweaker. No idea why it worked the first time.
    Damn. 1.1.5 it is, then.

  13. #1138
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    I spoke too soon again

    What I didn't realise is that the manual mouse fix only works with 115 if the game is running in admin mode. Which causes brightness to break. Disable "run as an administrator" and the pointer vanishes again.

    This is a last-ditch attempt: Is there any known way to unbreak brightness when running in admin mode? Or in borderless mode?

  14. #1139
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    OK, that makes some sense. On Win8, running as admin makes the game run in a fullscreen windowed mode pretending to be 'real' fullscreen. So brightness will be broken, and vsync too.

    I don't know of any easy fix to make brightness work in windowed mode. Your best bet is probably to try dgVoodoo - I don't know if it'll fix things in this case but it's easy to try: Remove the admin mode. Copy d3d8.dll from this archive into the game's System folder. Start the game - there should be a watermark in the bottom right corner. Test the cursor. If it works, copy the dgVoodoo configuration tool into System as well. You'll want to remove the watermark and set the amount of video RAM.

    Even if it doesn't work on its own, with dgVoodoo you can switch to windowed fullscreen and use ReShade, as mentioned by lowenz above, for brightness adjustment (vsync will still be broken, though). I've very little experience with ReShade but maybe lowenz can explain how to set it up?

  15. #1140
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Thanks for suggestions, although I found a workaround for the broken brightness slider within SU itself. Changing the background ambient light multiplier from 1 to 8 made the difference between the game being unplayably dark to now actually being able to discern my surroundings and see where I am going. So I think I am sorted (finally).

    But thanks again. It is good that there are "Keepers" such as yourself and Voodoo and others, willing to help out

  16. #1141
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    maybe it's time to try a new direction - T3 source code should still exist (the xbox360 port), maybe we should try to poke around and see what happens. no idea where to start though.

  17. #1142
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    VSync problem is NOT a problem in *borderless* windowed fullscreen using Win 8.1/10 ('cause there is a sort of desktop buffering)

  18. #1143
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    I've very little experience with ReShade but maybe lowenz can explain how to set it up?
    Of course, please ask me.

    Ah, about wrapping API to infinity , Indirect Sound for positional sound/EAX *base* emulation got a new fresh release: http://www.indirectsound.com/downloa...Sound_0_13.zip

  19. #1144
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    Thanks for suggestions, although I found a workaround for the broken brightness slider within SU itself. Changing the background ambient light multiplier from 1 to 8 made the difference between the game being unplayably dark to now actually being able to discern my surroundings and see where I am going. So I think I am sorted (finally).
    All that ambient light will make you very visible to the NPCs.

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    maybe it's time to try a new direction - T3 source code should still exist (the xbox360 port), maybe we should try to poke around and see what happens. no idea where to start though.
    MoroseTroll has tried to track it down but didn't get much response, I think. I didn't know there was an actual port for the '360, just assumed it was the original xbox binaries plus some kind of emulation. Source code would be fantastic, but the previous efforts on the Dark side have not been encouraging.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    VSync problem is NOT a problem in *borderless* windowed fullscreen using Win 8.1/10 ('cause there is a sort of desktop buffering)
    Good to know - doesn't work for me, though, unless things have changed recently in Win10, which is very possible...

    Ah, about wrapping API to infinity , Indirect Sound for positional sound/EAX *base* emulation got a new fresh release: http://www.indirectsound.com/downloa...Sound_0_13.zip
    I really wish I had time to look into the sound side of things.

  20. #1145
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    I really wish I had time to look into the sound side of things.
    As I said once, imagine to decouple OpenAL ALAudio from the "hardwired" DirectSound Device and use Soft OpenAL

    Some games *reborn* with this trick.....Fall of Liberty (yes, poor man Wolfenstein ) is totally a different game to play with a good OpenAL driver (such as Soft OpenAL).....

  21. #1146
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Good to know - doesn't work for me, though, unless things have changed recently in Win10, which is very possible...
    It's not a proper Fullscreen VSync, but it works like a VSync.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/co..._forced_vsync/

    Windows 10, like Windows 8 before it, forces the use of the Desktop Window Manager. (desktop compositor)
    This means that any application running in a window will have triple buffering applied to it.
    If you disable V-Sync in a game that is running in a window, the framerate will be uncapped and is no longer synchronized to the refresh rate - as expected. However you won't get any screen tearing because triple-buffering is applied via the DWM.
    If you want to disable V-Sync and still get screen tearing, run the game in fullscreen exclusive mode. That way the game should bypass the DWM.

  22. #1147
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    "All that ambient light will make you very visible to the NPCs."

    There's always something. Oh well, I notice that brightness/gamma can be forced in the NVidia settings and T3 respects this in-game. So there is always that fallback even though it is a bit of a hassle to keep changing from "application controlled" to "use these settings" in the Nividia software for each session.

  23. #1148
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    dgVoodoo 2 can handle that with no problem.

  24. #1149
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by lowenz View Post
    It's not a proper Fullscreen VSync, but it works like a VSync.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/co..._forced_vsync/
    Thanks for the clarification.

  25. #1150
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia, Tambov region, Uvarovo
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    maybe it's time to try a new direction - T3 source code should still exist (the xbox360 port)
    You mean "the Xbox 1 port"?
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    maybe we should try to poke around and see what happens. no idea where to start though.
    Like snobel has already said, I did some search and have came to conclusion that at least one of T3 developers has its source code. PM me if you want details.

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