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Thread: Reloaded 2 Contest - Final Tally & Results - Update: Voter comments added

  1. #1
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands

    Reloaded 2 Contest - Final Tally & Results - Update: Voter comments added

    (Well I can assure you all, this is a little bit awkward, but anyway, I'll try to keep it official and business like...)

    Congratulations goes to, um, Brethren for winning the overall contest with his entry Bad Hangover.

    We had a total of 34 people who voted. Several more than for the last contest, which is pretty awesome. A huge thanks to everyone who took the time to do so, and I'm sure all the participants are most grateful.

    Here are the scores, which are out of 10 and are averages based on the number of people who voted (a few people didn't vote for everything, but most did):

    Overall:

    Bad Hangover, by Brethren - 8.17
    A Dire Return, by intruder - 7.95
    Pestis Cruenta, by Haplo - 7.89
    Overlord's Ending, by FireMage - 6.24

    Originality:

    Bad Hangover 8.19
    Pestis Cruenta 8.00
    A Dire Return 7.91
    Overlord's Ending 7.20

    Audio & Visuals:

    A Dire Return 8.21
    Bad Hangover 8.19
    Pestis Cruenta 7.68
    Overlord's Ending 5.86

    Story/Plot:

    Bad Hangover 8.13
    Pestis Cruenta 8.00
    A Dire Return 7.73
    Overlord's Ending 5.66

    Also - there were quite a few comments submitted. I still need to copy and paste them together and get them all organized, and when I do, I'll post them here (just like for the last contest). It won't be long, but I didn't want to hold up the final results for that.

    Edit: Quick link to voter comments:

    Bad Hangover
    A Dire Return
    The Overlord's Ending
    Pestis Cruenta

    Thanks again to everyone who participated, played, tested, assisted, and voted (and anything else for that matter). I think these Reloaded contests are fun, but I'd like to get feedback from everyone. Some things to consider:

    Should we do more of the Reloaded contests?
    Should there be more/less/same number of restrictions and guidelines for authors?
    Should the authors be given more/less time?
    Should the voting be handled differently? How?

    And anything else on your mind...I'd love to hear it.
    Last edited by Brethren; 30th May 2012 at 22:25.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007
    Location: Germany
    Congrats to you, Brethren!
    A huge thanks also to all the other authors, translators, voice actors, and testers for providing us with such cool missions!

    Now to answer your questions:
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Should we do more of the Reloaded contests?
    Yes! Though I would propose a "Unfinished FM Reloaded"-contest for the next time. There are so many unfinished missions out there which could be used as a base for further missions and contests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Should there be more/less/same number of restrictions and guidelines for authors?
    I wouldn't change anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Should the authors be given more/less time?
    I think that the time was sufficient. But having the option of an extension is always nice

    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Should the voting be handled differently? How?
    I can't think of any other way, maybe appart from using polls as Gloria suggested.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Great. Now I can't get back in
    Congrats, Brethren that was a particularly good mission, in or out of a contest.
    (& I voted for ya, so the result is obviously correct )

    1. Should we do more of the Reloaded contests?
    2. Should there be more/less/same number of restrictions and guidelines for authors?
    3. Should the authors be given more/less time?
    4. Should the voting be handled differently? How?
    1. Yes!!
    2. Considering what has been achieved in the 2 Contests, no change seems necessary.
    3. Mmaaayybe 1 more week at most. But I thought the grace period was a very good idea.
    4. The existing system is very good - the only change, IMO, that could be considered would be an extra (4th) category for Gameplay (incl puzzles).

    Congrats & Thanx to all entrants - excellent, imaginative missions.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: The Inverted Manse
    Congratulations to you, Brethren!

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Congratulations! Brethren! Well Done!

    Boy, you were right, the voting was neck and neck!

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Cambridgeshire UK
    Congratulations Brethren!

    Ref the voting, categories always give me problems. After allocating marks and looking at the total I usually find that the mission I liked best doesn't come top.

    I think that voting should be on "Which mission did you like best" and that the winning mission should be based on that alone.

    By all means have voting on the other categories but don't let those votes change the result. For example, one of the missions might be stunningly beautiful; another could be very original; another have the best audio. However, the most enjoyable mission could turn out to be one that only uses stock resources.

    If you must insist on voting in categories then please add gameplay and overall enjoyment, giving those two a much higher weighting than the others.

    Many thanks for the time and trouble you took organising the contest, and thanks to all the authors for some really interesting missions. I'm puzzled out!

  7. #7
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Congratulations Brethren! And my thanks to all the authors for your truly excellent missions. I thoroughly enjoyed them.

    1. Yes
    2. No
    3. Maybe
    4. This has been talked about before. I'm not very up on polls but they're pretty simple here aren't they? I suppose off-site polls which could cover the relevant categories could be used but that negates the point of having a poll which is ease of use. Voting on the categories, rather than a straightforward tick a box, is a bit more work but I think it's worth it as you can give credit for different aspects in different missions.

    I'd like to see an Unfinished Mission contest but I don't see how it could be a Reloaded since we wouldn't know what it was like in the first place.

    I'm glad to see the voters count was up.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by ffox View Post
    Ref the voting, categories always give me problems. After allocating marks and looking at the total I usually find that the mission I liked best doesn't come top.

    I think that voting should be on "Which mission did you like best" and that the winning mission should be based on that alone.

    By all means have voting on the other categories but don't let those votes change the result. For example, one of the missions might be stunningly beautiful; another could be very original; another have the best audio. However, the most enjoyable mission could turn out to be one that only uses stock resources.

    If you must insist on voting in categories then please add gameplay and overall enjoyment, giving those two a much higher weighting than the others.
    That's actually a very good idea. I also proposed to use a 4th category called "gameplay", but "originality" was meant to cover that according to Brethren: Thief Reloaded Contest - Part Two! - Nov 1, 2011.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Louisiana
    1. YES! Though I love love love intruder's idea of an 'Unfinished Mission(s) Revival', as well.

    2. The current rules seemed to work fine, though as I'm not an author myself, I leave it up to those with experience.

    3. The given time + the extension seemed enough, from my 'eagerly awaiting player' perspective, so probably around that much or just a tad more would work?

    4. There are upsides and downsides to having polls, so I'm not sure I'd push for one, myself. I would add more categories, though. Having more categories might make it easier to whittle down your votes. (I agonized over some of mine. I had to create new categories and then add the scores of my new categories together to get the ones I sent in.) What if you thought visuals were stunning, but the sound was bland, or such? Still, more categories could also wind up being 'too much'. You don't want to get all bloated with excess choices... hmm. At least the aforementioned 'gameplay' ('enjoyment' or however you want to call it) category would be helpful, if no others were added.

    As a sidenote: If 'originality' was intended to be the 'gameplay/enjoyment' category, I totally missed that. I took it to mean exactly what the word 'original' means, and voted that way... which is differently than I would have voted for 'gameplay/enjoyment'. Oops.

    Anyway, a big THANK YOU to all of the authors for a wonderful time, and: CONGRATULATIONS, Brethren!

  10. #10
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada
    Congratulations, Brethren!

    I'd love to see another contest, whether it be reloaded or an unfinished FM type but I agree with ffox. I'd like to see an overall best gameplay category added to the votes that is worth more in the final tally than the others.

    I can't see the need for any changes other than that as it all seems to work well as it is. Thank you for taking the time to not only organize and run the contest but to enter a mission as well.

  11. #11
    Summer Vacation Contest Winner 2010
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: PacificNorthWest...Near Forks
    Congrats Mike ! And Thankyou to all contestants, these fms were very much fun to play.

    Yes, lets have more Reloaded Contests !

  12. #12
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Congratulations, Mike! And to the other three as well, these were all great missions and I enjoyed them immensely. I don't take the time to play new FMs that much any more but I'm glad I made time to play and vote on these. And I agree with Freddy and Linda that a separate vote for "Favorite/Best Overall/Gameplay" could be added and counted double next time.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: Situation's changed, Tom.
    Thanks for the results! Unfortunately I couldn't vote cause at the last mission, Thief didn't want to cooperate anymore, but I more or less agree with the results.

    I'd like to congratulate Brethren and FireMage especially, since they had to compete with two veterans who already released a lot more missions than they did, and yet the quality of the mission was great in every entry. I must say I was surprised to see FireMage's mission being rated so low on Originality - in my opinion it's one of the most original missions ever made.

    Anyway, congrats again, and I hope to see a lot more from all four contenders!

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Yeah congrats for the first place, Brethren. This was a fine battle. Also congrats intruder for the 2nd place. I thought you would be the first.

    I agree with intruder - making use of all those unfinished missions is a great idea!

    Ehm, yeah, I'm also surprised FireMage's mission was rated so low for orginiality. Found it to have some of the most original ideas I've seen on Thief.

    Also the voting system was fine, but maybe...: everybody just send their votes to nickie (instead either nickie or a contestant) to avoid any potential confusion or whatever.

  15. #15
    Moderator
    Registered: Jul 2008
    Congratulations, Brethren! Well done!

    And congrats to all the other authors. You all made excellent missions which were a lot of fun to play. Thank you all for many hours of enjoyment.

    I also agree with ffox. I'd be very happy to see another reloaded contest. And I like intruder's idea regarding abandoned missions also.

  16. #16
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    Hahaha! I have said that I would be AGAIN the looser because I'm the only taffer who havn't put any undead. And, what a surprise... Near hazard the hoster is the winner...
    No it is a joke.

    But I'm surprised to get a result like that. I know that the was bugs, but It was the only problem. I don't see where is the problem with Audio/Visual, and Story.

    About my suggestions, I think that:

    1) Next time, it would be better to ask player to vote ONLY if they have played all contest missions.
    People don't really know what are my Dromedition's level, because it is a reload contest, it isn't easy to do complex things without a bug.
    And we know the other conester and their missions, sometimes incredible.
    Then, player look at the mission, they can say, yeah, I know this guy, I love his works, then, download. Me, we have not a lot a mission from me with high quality, because this kind of mission ask for years of works, then, you are not ready to see one from me right know, so, more people will play others missions, it is logical. And because we see good comments and we know your missions on the past, then, If there is a bug, players can think that is just a question of time.
    If there is a bug in an unknow's mission like me, so, they won't play.

    2) I think that is bad idea to vote for the graphics and sounds, a new guy, have no chances if he is not an expert drawer with 3D software, good musics etc. I think that it would be better to put these things in a bigger part to vote: Effects and ambience. If the man can use a SFX to get a beautiful thing, an object which already exist to scale for making another thing. After you can add fog, rain etc, but I don't really think that is a good idea. Whith a mission like that, It was impossible to add rain, because I need a portalization, and to portalize, I need to delete all objects, and when it is done, when I load the objects, rain disappear, so, it is unequal depending on the reloaded mission.

    3) I think that it would be good to note for playability. Ok, in this way, because of bugs, I'll loose again, but there I speek for all, not for me. We shall vote about the shadows, if it is too easy or to hard to win. We are lost or we can find easily our way. And what we are seeking for.

    4) If you won't to ask to players to play all missions before voting, then, it is possible to ask for few players ready to play a number of mission in few weeks to make a jury and to vote. With that a limit of voters.

    That is all that I think.

    EDIT: How dare I? CONGRATULATION BRETHREN!!
    And about unfinished mission, trust me, I have folder to delevry.
    Last edited by FireMage; 22nd May 2012 at 13:05.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007
    Location: Germany
    You shouldn't take it that serious FireMage

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    2) I think that is bad idea to vote for the graphics and sounds, a new guy, have no chances if he is not an expert drawer with 3D software, good musics etc.
    I don't see any necessary relation between building FMs and being able to use tools like Animator, Blender, Photoshop etc.
    I released 7 FMs so far and never used anything else besides DromEd, Audacity, and MS Paint.

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    If the man can use a SFX to get a beautiful thing, an object which already exist to scale for making another thing. After you can add fog, rain etc, but I don't really think that is a good idea. Whith a mission like that, It was impossible to add rain, because I need a portalization, and to portalize, I need to delete all objects, and when it is done, when I load the objects, rain disappear, so, it is unequal depending on the reloaded mission.
    The main challenge of every FM is to stay within the limits defined by DromEd/DarkEngine. This does not only apply for your mission
    As the guys from LGS wrote in their original tutorial: "Don't cross the beams"...

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Frederikssund, Denmark
    Congratulations Brethren!
    And all the other authers!

    1. Yes, please!
    2. I'll leave that up to the authers.
    3. Yah, think so.
    4. One of the usual polls here on TTLG. Leave room for direct comments.

    Special big thank you, goes to all you, who shared yet another Thief experience with me!

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: The Netherlands
    Congratulations to all 4 contestants!
    Brethren, a well deserved

    I definately support the contest of reloaded missions! It was awesome to be back again in a well known area, but with a whole different angle of gameplay.

    I already mentioned using a poll to vote (I think more Taffers will vote this way ) but I also would give the author a bit more time before release, if neccessary. Perhaps make it possible to make a second deadline for the contest. The other contest FM's could then already be played.
    Of course there has to be an ultimate deadline, but due to some bugs a 5th contestant couldn't "deliver" on time.

    There're angels who playThief and angels who don't ........ both go to heaven ............
    Dare to join .............

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: ON THE ROOF U SAYIN GERMAN
    Congrats Brethren and everyone, and thanks for the awesome missions!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Should we do more of the Reloaded contests?
    Absolutely, it motivates people to make FM's, which they might not ordinarily do so readily. If we want to maintain a steady flow of fan missions, contests are essential.
    Last edited by Azaran; 22nd May 2012 at 20:08.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Location: Germany
    Congratulations, Brethren !
    And a 'Good job !' to all of you !

    Regarding voting criterias:
    I would agree to have only a single 'Overall enjoyment' vote that is used as a dominant criteria for the ranking.
    Edit: Plus maybe a second criteria : 'Compliance with the rules of the contest'. An 'awesome' mission in a Water-contest, but with barely any water in it would get it's punishment like that.

    Basicly I find it much easier to tell which mission I liked better compared to the others then thinking about abstract criterias like 'Audio/Visual enhancements', etc.
    Indeed I find it quite difficult to tell the difference between Pestis Cruenta and and Bad Hangover (regarding Audio/Video Enh.). And these are even based on the same map !
    Which enhancements were created by the author himself and which were simply borrowed from other missions ? I can't tell, but I think this would have to be considered as well if you want to be fair.
    These additional criterias should be rather used to describe the characteristics of a mission (story-driven, puzzle-driven, visual 'trip', action-style, horror-style, adventure, ...).

    @FireMage, some comments from my side
    I really enjoyed the idea you came up with !
    But, you can not expect to win a contest if a large number of players can not complete your mission due to bugs,
    and requesting them to refuse voting because of such issues is not the right solution.
    Without these bugs I am quite sure you would have made it to the top.
    Part of the challenge of a contest is to know how much you can achieve within a given timeframe.
    And for sure some testing from independent people is essential.
    Last edited by gnartsch; 22nd May 2012 at 19:29.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Location: Miami Valley
    I thoroughly enjoyed all the missions. Sorry I missed the vote. I appreciate all the author's hard work and time spent creating them. I would love to play more missions for a future contest!
    If at first you don't succeed...reload and try again!

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: The Inverted Manse
    Actually I'm quite surprised that my mission scored so low in the "Audio & Visuals" category, given the amount of flashback sequences, new motions, new voice acting and camvators it had.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    2) I think that is bad idea to vote for the graphics and sounds, a new guy, have no chances if he is not an expert drawer with 3D software, good musics etc.
    Well for me gameplay is more important then graphics. That's one of the reasons we're all playing these FMs, instead of the latest games with 'super' graphics, isn't it? Though yes, good graphics make a mission look nicer, but if the gameplay was boring, it would make it rank lower overall to me.

    For example the Thief Gold mission recently released, just used the graphics in TG, no spanky custom made textures or anything, but it's the gameplay that really made it stand out.

    Yes, which reminds me, the 3 categories that we assessed the contest missions on, there's no 'Gameplay' category, or was it intended that one of those 3 categories were suppose to cover that?

    Also i kinda agree with what others are saying, a category for which mission you like best would be good, it's kinda weird when a person knows which mission they like best, but once they add up their scores from the various categories find their favourite, doesn't get the highest score overall.

    But i also think giving each mission a score for various categories is a good idea, because it's better feedback for the authors, so they can see what exactly people liked about their missions. If missions were only scored based on which one you liked best, they wouldn't have this feedback, well they would in the form of comments, but a numerical score is a better measure for comparision, whereas it's hard to 'compare' two comments.

    For example Haplo just stated, that his surprised his mission didn't get a higher score on the visiual/audio category. With the numerical score we can see that it's only 0.51 less then the next score. So telling us, while it was a lower score then the next one, it was close and people did acknowledge the audio/visual elements of his mission. Also the originality and story/plot category scores, put Haplo's mission into 2nd place for those categories, indicating that people liked his mission for those things, more then the audio/visual element.

    I will say maybe it's not just 'having' audio/visual stuff, but perhaps what kind you have. I think 'A Dire Return' got the 1st place for visual/audio category, mainly because of the 'fire and brimstone' bit at the end and this made a big impression on people. Though if you look at the scores for visual/audio, the other missions were neck and neck.
    Last edited by shadows; 23rd May 2012 at 01:36.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Location: Normandy, France
    Should we do more of the Reloaded contests?
    OF COURSE!
    Should there be more/less/same number of restrictions and guidelines for authors?
    I don't think it's necessary.
    Should the authors be given more/less time?
    Well, I don't remember how many time the authors have, but I think it might be fair to allow at least 1 update for missions with bugs like FireMage's: once the 1st players discovered the mission was impossible to win, he'd have been allowed to release an updated version before the mission was considered submitted (if it was already done/allowed, my bad). Don't forget that when you do a mission in French, you must not only take time to translate it, but you must also ask someone to check/correct your mispellings, record the English voices, etc. This spent time is time you can't use for improving the mission.
    Should the voting be handled differently? How?
    I'm not really in favour of poll. Already, I don't know exactly how the vote occures since I didn't vote myself, but do the voters even need to justify their notes? If no, then the voting must be handled differently, yes, because a note should always be justified. That would avoid 'mis-noting' like giving a 9 to someone who's famous to release terrific missions but didn't necessarly currently make a so great mission (of course, I aim no one when I say that!). It's not impossible that some people voted for someone without even playing the mission.

    I agree with FireMage too that only people who played ALL the missions should be allowed to vote: this is unfair that some maps receive more notes than others since it affects the average. Hence the need of a justification for the notes.

    Quote Originally Posted by intruder
    I don't see any necessary relation between building FMs and being able to use tools like Animator, Blender, Photoshop etc.
    I released 7 FMs so far and never used anything else besides DromEd, Audacity, and MS Paint.
    Because graphics and audio are a category, so if you know how to do 3D and good sound, it's obvious people will enjoy more your mission rather than the one with original Thief graphics/sounds (provided that the new ones are qualitative). However, I agree that the gameplay needs too to be qualitative, but you cannot say people don't note based on the new graphs/sounds.

    I definitely agree that another category called Enjoyment/Pleasure must be added. You need to express the pleasure you had playing the mission in your vote. Currently, it doesn't really reflect in the votes.

    And to finish, congratz to all, Brethren above all, but you who didn't win too! Keep on making FMs!!!

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