"Order of the Hammer"

[ganac]

Hey Taffers. I got a question for all you thiefy scholars out there.
Now, some may not know that the Mechanists are never referred to as "The Order of the Gear", and the connection to the Pagans as "The Order of the Vine" is tenuous at best.

But everyone knows that the Hammerites are certainly "The Order of the Hammer".

Or are they?

Whilst trying to think of a new Featured Article for the wikia, I decided to look into some thief lore/legends/myths/taffnstuff that involved the Ordering business, much mirroring the first paragraph.

It got me thinking; is there anywhere in the canon, vanilla Thief lexicon where the Hammerites are named as such?

And if there is not, where the heck did all this ordering business come from?

EDIT: Ive found reference to it. Twice. Only twice. (Meeting with Constantine and Drepts Tale)

I'm sure there has got to be more. How else could it be so memetic?

[Beleg Cúthalion]

It's probably "memetic" because the games makes us believe that the only religious institution for the "Builder belief" is an order-like group of monks, warrior-monks and priests. There is apparently no secular clergy like in the older Catholic church (to distinguish monks from ordinary "outside" priests), rather the Hammerites draw upon the service for commoners and non-clerics in general.

[Solabusca]

Paging jtr7, paging jtr7!

Okay, I'll give it a quick shot, too - I can't be certain at this moment (just finishing up a long night at work), but if I'm not mistaken, the name "The Order of the Vine" actually springs from a fan mission for TDP, and is a derivative of The Order of the Hammer/The Hammerite Order.

I can't recall if the Order of the Vine is mentioned in Calendra's Cistern - unfortunately, my legacy gaming rig blew it's hard drive not that long ago, and I haven't had the chance to reinstall any Thief-y goodness.

[Komag]

Order of the Vine is referenced in Thief TDP, in one of either Bafford's or Ramirez's ledgers IIRC. The fan mission then ran with the reference

[Brethren]

Yeah, I believe it's in one of Ramirez's intel reports from Assassins.

[Komag]

In Constantine's manor, there is a scroll:

THE CITY TRIBUNE
A woman from Shalebridge..acquitted...city court...kidnapped by members of the Order of the Hammer. ... in Cragscleft...etc etc

[Solabusca]

As has been pointed out by Komag, there IS mention of The Order of the Vine in Assassins

Viktoria

Independent fence, previously Raputo's. Dominates include thiefs-pawnage of exotics, medicinals. No known organization; contact with second-tier nobility, Grand Library, and Order of the Vine. May have warden aspirations.

Additionally, a quick search of related materials has found SEVERAL references to the Order of the Hammer/Hammerite Order spread through around a dozen or so in-game documents.

[ganac]

Thanks for the responses. It would certainly be good to see what source materials reference it. Not that it is super important, I just wanted to make sure I didn't have to change every reference of the Order of the Hammer on the wikia.
Now I can work on that featured article.

[Solabusca]

Thanks for the responses. It would certainly be good to see what source materials reference it. Not that it is super important, I just wanted to make sure I didn't have to change every reference of the Order of the Hammer on the wikia.
Now I can work on that featured article.

Well, this might help you as a first step in your research...

the first few links give you references to the Order of the Hammer. Before going off an changing anything, I'd recommend a review of the In-Game Texts - heck, you can find them here AND at the Thief Wikia.

[ganac]

Well, this might help you as a first step in your research...

the first few links give you references to the Order of the Hammer. Before going off an changing anything, I'd recommend a review of the In-Game Texts - heck, you can find them here AND at the Thief Wikia.

I'm an admin there :P I forgot that the search engine doesn't like how the pages for voices and text are set up. Thanks anyway; I have what I needed.

[Keeper Jonas]

If memory serves I believe the phrase "the order of the Hammer" was also uttered during the mission Precious Cargo during TMA. Recall the conversation between the two Mechanists in the ruins of the lighthouse.
Something along the lines of:

M1: "When once I was a Hammer..."

M2: "The Order of the Hammer [meh] Thou wert wise to forsake the [?] of the hammer for the [majesty?] of the gear."

Or something like that...