Thief: Deadly Shadows Ghosting

[zachary1975]

Hello,

I recently played Deadly Shadows without knocking out anyone, without missing any loot, without putting out torches, on gamma level 3 on the Rutherford castle mission. I wanted to ghost but on expert you can't do that. I can't get into lady Elizabeth's chambers without shooting a noisemaker arrow or Flash-bombing the guard. A suggestions on how to stealthily get in?

[Beleg Cúthalion]

Are you sure that shooting noisemaker arrows is against the rule? Or rather: Are you sure that making noise without using equipment is different from shooting said arrows? If yes than I'd suggest to throw some junk around or maybe (if one is nearby), step into a cat in order to make it meow; in both cases the guard, should he hear it, would ramp up to half-yellow alert and slowly investigate without drawing his weapon. Throwing junk directly on him might result in a yellow alert but I don't know if that fits your rules.

Without having the location clearly in my head I cannot be more specific unfortunately. Good luck, though. Rutherford Castle refuses being reunited right now, otherwise we'd have it as one map soon.

[klatremus]

There is no official set of rules made for Thief 3, as there was for Thief 1/2 here. In those games, using noisemakers or junk to lure guards away is definitely not allowed, as it would constitute a second level alert (hunt mode). I haven't played Thief 3 much, but I know there is a grey area with those yellow alerts (no pun intended).

I would strongly recommend you to take a look at Tarvis79's narrated ghosting videos of Thief 3 here. In the first video he goes through all the problems with rulings for Thief 3 and outlines his choice of rules for the playlist. Then you can easily skip to the mission you're looking for.

Hope this helps!

[Tannar]

While it's true that we don't have a hard and fast set of rules for TDS, I think it is generally agreed that the ghosting rules for T1/2 should be followed as well as they can be. There are a few issues with T3, such as different AI behavior, which raise some questions about what constitutes a ghost bust. But there is a very good discussion of these differences here, along with some suggested amendments to the rules so that they could accommodate TDS.

I haven't seen that video yet, klatremus, but I'll check it out as soon as I have time.

[klatremus]

I wasn't aware of that discussion Tannar. Thanks for pointing it out!

If you like watching ghosting videos, you should really check out his playlists for Thief Gold and Thief 2. His narration is highly entertaining! Too bad he isn't doing FMs.

But I digress... I hope you found what you were looking for zachary1975.

[Beleg Cúthalion]

I'm not sure, though, that this tarvis guy is right about the exact alert levels in TDS. I wanted to make a test using different scripts in T3Ed yesterday but then I was too lazy. After all green, yellow and red alert as well as combat mode show up in the AI (Behaviour?) State list but I think I had a different impression until now.

[klatremus]

I can already say you're an expert compared to me. My TDS experience is virtually none, so my opinions here count for very little. That's why I originally referenced T1/2 only. I think Tarvis79's discussion was interesting, without being able to vouch for much of it. I always play Supreme Ghost though, where even first alerts aren't allowed. So any alerts for TDS, whether they are called first, yellow, magenta or princess pink is to me a Supreme bust. But then again, that mode is supposed to be much more challenging.

My two cents anyway...

[xtarka]

I've seen several differing "rules" about ghosting T:DeadlyShadows (T:DS). Some folks say you cannot use any equipment, nor distractions. You just must time the patrols to get past the foe. I don't think that's always possible for most missions.

As far as getting past the guard at the top of the spiral stairs, I had to use water arrows to douse the torches. The guard will go to the top, turn around, then go back to the bottom. Then he will return to the top and become stationary. If you can follow him up to the top, dousing torches along the way, then let him walk past you on his way down (hug the exterior wall), then douse the torch at the top of the stairs. Quickly pick the lock, go into the chambers, steal everything, then leave. You'll probably get stuck in the antechamber where the guard is now stationary watching the exit.

The only way I've been able to get past him without distractions, is to crouch and quickly creep through the doorway to the left and into the shadows. Sometimes he notices something and gets suspicious, other times he doesn't say anything nor move. Then I can slowly creep past him (remember that I already doused his torched) and then down the stairs.

/xarax
My original handle "xarax" is unavailable. I made "The Varyx Obelisk" and "Heart and Soul", both for Thief Gold.

[xtarka]

I've been able to ghost the museum with the only exception of using 1 moss arrow and 1 water arrow at the Special Loot Medallion. It just seems impossible to get that item without dousing the nearby candles and quieting the marble floor so I can jump up to get it (after shooting it down with a broadhead arrow). I can't seem to find a vantage point to shoot the medallion off of the statue and make it land on the floor. Other than 1 moss arrow and 1 water arrow there, I can get 100% loot, no alerts, all objectives clean (I did pickpocket a key that simplifies opening doors -- I don't know if that is allowed).

btw: You know that you can rob the gold store in Auldale twice? On the first day that you arrive in Auldale and on the second day. The third day it is empty.

/xarax
My original handle "xarax" is unavailable. I made "The Varyx Obelisk" and "Heart and Soul", both for Thief Gold.

[Tannar]

Using water arrows to douse flames or moss arrows to muffle footsteps is not against the straight ghosting rules. There is a ghost mode called "Supreme Ghost" in which no equipment is allowed but it is completely "legal" for basic ghosting. See the rules for further clarification.

I haven't played either of those missions yet but I will. I hope you decide to make more in the future.