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Thread: Are You Effing Kidding Me?

  1. #126
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: tall bikes and tattoos
    Quote Originally Posted by fett View Post
    I'm not expecting everyone to throw shit at Disney, but I'm flagergasted (Yes, I said FLABERGASTED, GOOD SIRS), that very few in the press or in this conversation are willing to acknowledge what a horrible idea this is if Disney tries to straddle the new story/George's story fence.
    You're really hung up on this bit, aren't you? It doesn't need to be a fence that is straddled, as neither side needs to not play well with the other.

    Anyway: I wouldn't take too seriously the word of someone who saw a treatment twenty years ago. Whatever he saw was written back when the cast was still relatively young, and the years have only really proven that George never really had the over-arcing plan that he might have once claimed. And besides, ol' neckless no longer has the final say on any of this.

    My guess, again, is Disney is savvy enough to recognize the following three universal truths from which all beauty and innocence spring: (1) a sequel trilogy should be somewhat tied to the first two trilogies, and should therefore feature some familiar characters, but (2) nobody wants to see old Luke and fat Leia wheezing and jiggling through action setpieces, and yet (3) recasting familiar roles would be difficult to pull off.

    As such, I'm guessing (as I've said) that the new trilogy will feature the next generation of characters, and Luke and co. will return as peripheral elders.

  2. #127
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2009
    Location: Damp cavern
    Yeah, Mark Hamill doesn't even need prosthetics even, to become an old guy. Has anyone seen his mug, lately?

    I have no care in the world where Disney's 3rd trilogy goes. I was never really much of a SW fan, to begin with. I just liked the alien costumes and Special FX, and I owned a VHS copy of the behind-the-scenes for Return Of The Jedi, at one point. Awesome stuff.

  3. #128
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I think you're right Stitch, bang on in fact, and that is the only way that they could realistically do it without it being really poor.

    However, there will be light sabres which are dull as dish water now, and light sabre fights, which are so yawn inducing.
    Doubtless there will be Sith, also a yawn. Makes me wonder; do the Jedi realise that the cycle will repeat ad nauseum?
    Telepathy is not mind reading. It is the direct linking... ...of nervous systems... ...separated by space.

  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    ...and yet (3) recasting familiar roles would be difficult to pull off.
    Whatever. How many people have played James Bond? Or Batman? Or Spiderman? Or The Hulk? Looper even has two people playing the same character in the same movie. I don't think the movie-going public in general gives a rats-arse about recasting. I think movie-makers actually care more - something about "artistic integrity" - but IMO that shouldn't get in the way of telling the right story.

  5. #130
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: tall bikes and tattoos
    Pretty much everything you typed is wrong, beginning with your dismissive "Whatever."

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    You appear to have some pretty major delusions. I've presented substantial evidence for my position. You've merely made a dismissive statement, ironically focusing solely on what you're calling a dismissive statement.

  7. #132
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    How many people have played James Bond? Or Batman? Or Spiderman? Or The Hulk?
    How many people have played Luke Skywalker?

    All the characters you cited existed in written and illustrated fiction long before they were put on film, thus there is a built-in cultural expectation that the actors portraying them will be merely another element of the adaptation. Mark Hamill, on the other hand, is Luke Skywalker, just as Harrison Ford is Han Solo, Mel Gibson is Mad Max, Robert Englund is Freddy Krueger, Kurt Russell is Snake Plissken, and so on and so forth. Audiences, for whatever reason you care to put on it, seem profoundly more receptive to recasting a character from a book (Jack Ryan, Jason Bourne, Dr. Frankenstein, etc.), than recasting the actor who defined the character. It's certainly been attempted, but the success rate has been... not so great. They tried to replace William Shatner as James T. Kirk and we ended up with a whiny punching-bag douche. Norman Bates as not-Anthony Perkins-- that sank like a stone (yes, based on a book, but not a well-known one at the time). Anyone but Bruce Campbell as Ash... that remains to be seen. Even a character from a book, like Willy Wonka, can be so memorably portrayed by a particular actor that their performance becomes the benchmark for all successive actors to brave the role.

    So, can anyone cite a film that recast a popular original character and is generally considered to have done a good job of it?

  8. #133
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Sometimes ZB really pumps my nads.

    That post was beautiful.

    And I think Stitch just didn't bother because you were so wrong Pyrian. ZB has summed it up right there.

    And the Looper thing didn't even make sense. Next you'll quote Brando and De Niro in Godfather 2.
    Telepathy is not mind reading. It is the direct linking... ...of nervous systems... ...separated by space.

  9. #134
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: tall bikes and tattoos
    Quote Originally Posted by Subjective Effect View Post
    And I think Stitch just didn't bother because you were so wrong Pyrian.
    Yes, plus I really wanted ZylonBane to pump your nads.

  10. #135
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    I must admit that most of the recasting in Star Trek [sic] was pretty good, James T. Facepunch excepted. Too bad about the movie itself sucking.

  11. #136
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    ...Anyone but Bruce Campbell as Ash... that remains to be seen.
    You are right on the money here, though I'd go a step further and put him in the same category as the others as he is irreplaceable.

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    All the characters you cited existed in written and illustrated fiction long before they were put on film, thus there is a built-in cultural expectation that the actors portraying them will be merely another element of the adaptation.
    That's true, but I'm very dubious of the notion that the effect is significant. Recasting Hulk was not a problem, recasting Iron Man would be. Recasting Mark Hamil would not be a problem, recasting Han Solo would be. That has nothing to do with whether there's any pre-existing materials, and everything to do with the shoes being filled.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    So, can anyone cite a film that recast a popular original character and is generally considered to have done a good job of it?
    Maybe you can!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    I must admit that most of the recasting in Star Trek [sic] was pretty good, James T. Facepunch excepted. Too bad about the movie itself sucking.
    So, basically everything you just told me and got congratulated for telling me, you don't even agree with?

    Niiice.

    So, yeah, I totally agree with you, it'll be fine as long as they do a good job of casting and bad if they don't. Just like any other movie.

  13. #138
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Maybe you can!
    No cheating. Come up with your own example, douche.

  14. #139
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: tall bikes and tattoos
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Whatever. How many people have played James Bond? Or Batman? Or Spiderman? Or The Hulk? Looper even has two people playing the same character in the same movie. I don't think the movie-going public in general gives a rats-arse about recasting. I think movie-makers actually care more - something about "artistic integrity" - but IMO that shouldn't get in the way of telling the right story.
    Just a couple more point here: you actually have things reversed--I think filmmakers would be all too happy to swap actors or actresses between films depending on availability and popularity, but it's the movie-going general public that actually cares (to some degree) about actor/actress consistency. Filmmakers care, sure, but mostly (I'd guess) because they know that the public does. Films are ultimately made for the viewer (and their wallets), even if the filmmakers might also think that they have a better idea what the viewer wants or needs than the viewers themselves.

    ZB handled the rest of why your post is wrong and your examples are shit--reboots, really?!--but you do make a point in a follow-up post that while still wrong is at least more peripherally connected to a reality that is shared by people besides yourself:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Recasting Mark Hamil would not be a problem, recasting Han Solo would be. That has nothing to do with whether there's any pre-existing materials, and everything to do with the shoes being filled.
    I'd agree that there are certain roles that become iconic because of the spark and personality granted by a specific actor's portrayal. This is why, for example, Katie Holmes was recast in the new Batman trilogy and Heath Ledger was not.

    At the same time, though, you're completely wrong if you think that recasting Mark Hamill would be a trivial matter. Hamill is at the center of one of the most successful film trilogies of all time. As ZB pointed out, Mark Hamill is Luke Skywalker in the eyes of everyone, and breaking that for sequels would not be without consequence.

  15. #140
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    Actually, for me, Hamill is the voice of the Joker. (Ledger is all well and good but his brutal, anarchic interpretation of the character doesn't completely jibe with what's in the comics most of the time.)

  16. #141
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Facepalm.

    The question isn't "Who is Mark Hamill?" The question is "Who is Luke Skywalker?"

    So okay, we've established that Luke Skywalker isn't Heath Ledger.

  17. #142
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this

    "ZB gets sexual gratification from being impossible pedant" theory confirmed

    I was responding to Stitch's exact wording.

  18. #143
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: tall bikes and tattoos
    Which isn't a remotely like being an impossible pedant.

  19. #144
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Jesus Christ guys

    You know it's bad when even I think this is petty bickering.

  20. #145
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: tall bikes and tattoos
    Yep.

    In news that is actually interesting: Star Wars 7 may have found its writer

    It's Michael Arndt, who wrote Little Miss Sunshine and Toy Story 3. He's also a Star Wars nerd.

    From the article: "Since winning the Oscar for Sunshine, Arndt has lectured extensively on the art of storytelling at numerous writers’ retreats, like the Hawaii Writers Conference in Maui and the Austin Film Festival, always featuring a lengthy and detailed explanation of why the original Star Wars’ ending is so creatively satisfying."

    That'll do

  21. #146
    Moderator
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Everywhere
    It says they've spoken to both Hamill and Ford. NOW I'm interested, but I fear a Crystal Skull scenario. I will admit that a Crystal Skull minus Lucas scenario might be awesome.

  22. #147
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland

  23. #148
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    YES to the last three posts.

    I'd fett those bobbas or vice versa. Whichever works.

  24. #149
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Meh, I'm over Star Wars anyway. The latest movies were so so. Definitaly not classics like the originals.

    Gotta give Lucas props though, donating the entire 4.05 billion to education!

  25. #150
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Entire 4 billion? The articles I've seen said it was the majority, not the full amount. Still a good move.

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