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Thread: Thief Enhancement Pack 2.0 alpha

  1. #101
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    Someone should really make truly good-quality hand models now that the "rendered inside-out" bug is fixed.
    couldn't agree more.

    also, after playing through a bunch of levels, I think core/cracked should definitely be old/cracked marble, and not (the current) old paint peeling off.

  2. #102
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    That's strange, because cracked looks like someone found the actual source texture the LGS one was downscaled from?

  3. #103
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    can't say I recall that - but anyway, it's used on fountains, chopping boards and other places where old marble would be much more appropriate than peeled paint.

  4. #104
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    I think the person who made that used some tool on the original.

  5. #105
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    No, it's made out of this: http://www.pawas.com/textures/librar...r/GRYDIRT2.JPG
    (Though probably not that version of the image, as only part of the texture appears on it.)

  6. #106
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    the thing is, it does not really matter what the orig picture was, as the texture ended up being used as old marble, mostly.

  7. #107
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Might be worth mentioning this in the progress thread. I'm unlikely to remake the texture myself, and the other contributors probably won't see it here.

  8. #108
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2006
    I posted the following in Gecko's water thread:

    "I don't know if this a resource loading priority bug for NewDark or what the deal is but there are conflicts between water textures when loaded from an FM's own custom \fam\waterhw resources and if you specify one in your mod_path in cam_mod.ini. What happens is that you get like 4/5 frames from the mod_path textures and then 1/5 frames from the FM's custom resources. It looks really jarring. This is fixable by setting whatever water you want displayed as an uber_mod_path, as then you'll not see the FM's custom water textures pop in."

    I really don't know what's going on here but it also affects the EP as well because it has custom water textures. It seems like it'd be a bug in NewDark, honestly. You can see this with missions that have their own water textures as long as they aren't the same as the EP's. Technically it should just load them in this priority and ignore any duplicates from lower priorities:

    - uber_mod_path first
    - FM second
    - mod_path third
    - stock game resources last

    Edit: The other possibility is that it will use both types of files (example: .dds files in the EP and .pcx files in the mission) and try to display both, but this really doesn't explain why using uber_mod_path fixes it but using normal loading priorities of FM resources first, mod_path resources second with no uber_mod_path used won't work. I'm leaning towards bug here. A third possibility is that the number of images used to animate the water doesn't match, although again does not explain why prioritizing with uber_mod_path fixes the problem.
    Last edited by GUFF; 24th Jan 2014 at 08:28.

  9. #109
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    It's not exactly a bug, at least not one new to NewDark - it happens because the number of water frames don't match.

    The blue water texture used by the EP has 40 frames, while the original animation used 14 frames.
    If an FM adds its own water textures, but uses less than 40 frames, then Dark will see 40 frames of animation for that texture, with the ones from the FM earlier in the load order, so it will load as many frames as it can from there, but then also load the remaining water frames from the EP.

    This is because the number of frames in an animated textures in Dark is controlled by whether or not textures with the right filenames exist, and it doesn't care that all of them exist in the same resource location.

    I'm not sure how to go about "fixing" this.

    It works with uber_mod_path because that overrides the FM's resources.

  10. #110
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    yeah, not a bug, it just works that way, if you have issues caused by conflicting custom resources, uber mod path should resolve them.

  11. #111
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2006
    It only seems to be a real problem with this specific issue of water, honestly, since so many FMs with custom water tend to be drop-in replacements rather than just their own custom filenames and I guess it works like NV said it does by simply loading all available animation frames from all locations and prioritizing based on that rather than more intelligently loading frames in highest priority only and ignoring frames in lower priority directories. You have to uber_mod_path with something that has equal or greater frames to the custom material to fix this issue, I suppose. Which isn't a huge problem since a lot of older custom water looks pretty ugly especially at high resolutions on today's monitors, but not exactly standard info a player can easily find. A lot of players will run into this issue nowadays, I think. I noticed this issue while replaying some of the excellent water contest missions recently.

  12. #112
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Per the NewDark doc for material files:

    ani_frames
    ----------------

    Animation frames. Default is 0, which means the frame count is determined by the number of files found.
    While not required it may be good practice to set this param, this avoids conflicts with other mods. For
    example if one mod overrides the water textures and has 15 frames, then another mod has 20 frames. Without
    setting ani_frames this can result in 15 frames from one mod being used and the last 5 frames from the other.
    If the texture isn't animated the parameter is ignored.

    Ex:
    ani_frames 20
    So this is solvable for missions played through NewDark if the texture used is given a material file with ani_frames set.

    For animated textures only the base/root texture of the animation should have a material file.

  13. #113
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2006
    I guess the problem there with adding that to the .mtl file is the same as with adding fm.ini to load data into FMsel, is that it's not very backwards compatible with existing content i.e. you load an older mission made before it became a good idea to standardize something like that and due to the priority of loading (uber_mod_path > FM > mod_path > base resources) you still have the issue. On a personal level a player who knows all of this can edit the file and add the line but as a sort of overall solution the problem it's not very good.

  14. #114
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    To bad there isn't a way to add something like that to the FM.ini of a specific mission.

  15. #115
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    I think EP2 should just use the uber mod path to avoid this issue. I don't think there would be any negative side effects.

  16. #116
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    If the EP2 itself is in the ubermod path, it would break lots of custom resources in FMs. Really, only the water textures could afford to be.

  17. #117
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    right, custom objects. guess not then.

  18. #118
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Updated.

  19. #119
    I posted the following in a different 'texture pack' thread, and Gecko figured out that the thing I asked about is a related to this Thief Enhancement Pack 2.0 thread; so, I figured I'd post it here:

    Here's my post:

    Did one of the texture packs change the shape/size/appearance of the cameras in Thief Gold's Cragscleft Prison? I seem to remember the camera being much bigger and obvious when I played it than it is in this play-through.

    This poor guy spends almost an hour trying to figure out what is triggering the alarm If the camera is, indeed, smaller in this video than LGS made it, it might be worth taking it back to its origins more, as it being so small and non-descript didn't help his plight. (I think there are a couple cameras like this in the level.) Possibly also even updating it to give it a metal with glass breaking type of sound, rather than the soft, gentle sound heard in this video, and also a replacement texture that shows the glass cracking or something, if that's possible? Maybe even a tiny LED that lights up on it when triggered, like TMA? Or is that going too far for TG purists?

    Just a thought, as I felt sorry for this guy. He was a good sport about it, I give him an "A" for tenacity and patience, but I think some players would probably just throw the towel in on the game if they experienced the same. I'd hate for that to happen if it is just a result of one of the new texture patches...? as it is much smaller and harder to notice (thus seems to play a lesser role in the alarm being triggered) than when I played.

    The fun begins at about the 04h 01m 39s mark in TorNis' video. Once he finally finds the solution (55 minutes later), his reaction is priceless, too: 04h 55m 26s

    http://www.twitch.tv/tornis/b/494953682
    (You have to click the link in upper-right to say you're okay with the mature content)

    I don't understand why the camera also stops rotating when he tries to time his movement for when the camera is facing away from him. Does it have eyes in the back of its 'head', so to speak? If so, maybe it needs a different design altogether, where it has two 180-degree cameras that cover roughly the whole 360-degrees, or something? Or if sound also triggers it, maybe it can be made slightly more evident? I haven't played Thief Gold for a while, so forgive me if I'm off-base with anything. I also don't know what texture patch he's using, so I'm not sure if this is a good thread for this; I just wanted to mention, in case it hasn't been noticed as a potential problem before.

  20. #120
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Was the original any more prominent? It looked like a giant, featureless tube. The new one at least looks like a periscope.



    Changing the sound or making it reflect damage would require game changes, and are probably beyond the scope of the EP.

  21. #121
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    ... that's why I create my own obj.crf (thank you object makers) and put it in res folder,

  22. #122
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I'll brighten up the lens a little. I also made a "broken" version with a smashed lens, but I'll leave that for someone else to rig up.

  23. #123
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Looks like one of these wall textures is the wrong color.


  24. #124
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2003
    Location: Nampa, Idaho
    Or the thing needs to be re-optimized.

  25. #125
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: Grim and Frostbitten Sweden

    The problem appears to be level design based; they've for some mystifying reason used the core family stucco instead of the matching ancient family one.

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