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Thread: Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain

  1. #26
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    The thing is, the controls have never sucked. They've always been clearly explained, both in the manual and in the game, and were almost always just right for the game.

  2. #27
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    I never had any problems with MGS' controls? My biggest criticism of series' gameplay was MGS3's fixed perspective camera, but Subsistence fixed that.

    Conclusion: Henke is affected by PEBKAC.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by dethtoll View Post
    The thing is, the controls have never sucked. They've always been clearly explained, both in the manual and in the game, and were almost always just right for the game.
    Except for the MGS2 PC port... ugh

  4. #29
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    That's what you get for playing an early 2000s Konami game on PC. None of their PC ports at the time were worth a damn.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    dethtoll, I'd be interested in hearing you elaborate on "the controls... were almost always just right for the game". My impression from playing MGS1-3 (plus Peace Walker) in a fairly short period was definitely that the early games' controls were more clumsy. It's not that they were badly explained, it's that I felt the latter controls offered the same functionality but resisted me less. I found it much easier to pull off moves in Peace Walker than in MGS and even MGS 2, even though there's more functionality in the latter.

  6. #31
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    That's just it though. You have to remember that MGS1 is technically the third game in the Metal Gear series, and it essentially is just a 3D remake of Metal Gear 2. The controls were exceedingly simple -- essentially they were MG2's with the addition of a Resident Evil-style aim button - and deliberately designed for what was ultimately a top-down game with a moving camera. MGS2's controls were almost exactly the same, but with some important new additions. Because the better hardware allowed for some distance, a (useful) first person view mode was included; however, inside or outside, MGS2 was still essentially a top-down game same as the previous three games and you really did not need to do much -- it's not like the game give you a lot of opportunity to do much other than straight point-and-shoot/punch-punch-kick. About the only thing most people had trouble with is the RF Blade -- it's a bit difficult to master, which can be frustrating because you need to know how to use it to effectively fight Solidus.

    The only time the controls ever fell short of the mark was the original version of MGS3, because of the camera. You couldn't really see what you were doing most of the time, and MGS3 allowed for some genuinely large environments. Subsistence fixed that. More to the point, it did something extra special by letting you switch camera modes on the fly, which came in handy for those times the traditional camera was a better fit.

    MGS4's controls brought the series fully into the current-day paradigm of 3rd person cover shooters and honestly that's not a bad thing at least in Metal Gear's case, though I confess I was confused as hell when I first played because the controls were so different.

  7. #32
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by dethtoll View Post
    The thing is, the controls have never sucked.
    Your apologism for this series truly knows no bounds, deth. Look, I'm glad for you that you haven't had an issue with them, but I hope you realize that this is not true for - I'd wager - most gamers. In MGS2 for instance there are things like having to press up/down to move left/right along a wall you're leaning against if that wall happens to be vertical from the view of the standard camera. Aiming is done by pressing a button and firing is done by releasing that same button. Crouch, go prone and stand up are all ON THE SAME BUTTON FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! And let's not even talk about trying to do anything productive while in first person mode.

    If a game has good controls you shouldn't even notice them. It should just be you and the game. But in MGS1, 2, and (the original) 3 I regularly found that the controls came between me and the game. From what little I've played of them, Peace Walker and MGS4 had ok controls though.

  8. #33
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    Your apologism for this series truly knows no bounds, deth.
    I stopped reading at this point. Suck less.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2013
    Location: Czech Republic
    A tired ad hominem in order to avoid a legitimate argument? Must be the famous dethtoll school of debate.

  10. #35
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Classic dethtoll.

    I've still to play MGS1! It's too hard!

  11. #36
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    The MGS series is one of the reasons I'll be treating myself to a PS3 when I hand in my thesis.

  12. #37
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    Quote Originally Posted by LoLion View Post
    A tired ad hominem in order to avoid a legitimate argument? Must be the famous dethtoll school of debate.
    You don't know what an ad hominem is.

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2013
    Location: Czech Republic
    I do. I suggest you look up a definition somewhere in case you dont know what it is though, which seems likely if the above was meant as a serious reply.


    As far as the controls go, the only MGS games were the first two and I have to agree that the controls in the second one were quite horrific - made me quit the game after the first boss fight with this guy on the roller blades. The first one wasn’t that bad though. Anyway this new instalment reminds me of Assassin´s Creed in a way, so hopefully the controls will be similar to that if a PC version ever comes out.

  14. #39
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    If you're so fucking smart why don't you tell me what I said that was an ad hominem?

    Also, you gave up on Fatman? Tsk. I'd have expected at least waiting 'til the Harrier jet. I don't know how you can fuck up fighting Fatman so badly -- you barely even engage him half the time.

  15. #40
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Yes LoLion, you misunderstood. Deth saying "suck less" was clearly not an ad hominem, merely a helpful suggestion, just like this is: shut the fuck up dethtoll.

  16. #41
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    Thank you for the advice but I think I'm good where I'm at.

  17. #42
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    My, what a spirited exchange of ideas.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2013
    Location: Czech Republic
    If you're so fucking smart why don't you tell me what I said that was an ad hominem?
    Seriously? Well henke already covered the basics and I could add a paragraph or two on why dismissing somebody’s argument on the basis of him needing to “suck less” before you even decide to read what he says equals an ad hominem, but why would I do that when I can just post a picture with cat?




    Also I did not give up on Fatman. I defeated him and then gave up on the game itself since I came to conclusion that I could have more fun playing tetris. Unlike MGS2 tetris actually has pretty good controls, you know?

    In any case I would like to conclude this spirited exchange of ideas by expressing my hope that the new MGS game will have better controls than MGS2 and tetris. Surely we can all agree that would be great. Right?

  19. #44
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    Actually, I dismissed his argument because he dismissed mine with the "apologist" nonsense, so why don't you go punch yourself in the face for me?

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by dethtoll View Post
    Actually, I dismissed his argument because he dismissed mine with the "apologist" nonsense...
    Wow. You really did stop reading it where you said you did.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2013
    Location: Czech Republic
    so why don't you go punch yourself in the face for me? .

    Most likely because there is a profound difference between

    A) “Your apologism for this series truly knows no bounds, deth.” [However I disagree for the following reasons…]

    and

    B) “I stopped reading at this point. Suck less.”


    Namely the former, while the first sentence could be construed as a personal attack (though I doubt you really are that sensitive to take it as such and be genuinely offended), presents legitimate counterarguments to your previous statements. You said that MGS controls never sucked and henke responded with the evidence to the contrary, even admitting that you personally might not be affected by the problems he mentioned, thus you can’t say he actually dismissed your argument at all.

    The later however is a textbook example of ad hominem (I take it you are not denying that anymore?) as you simply dismiss what your opponent says because “he sucks” without even attempting to address the points he made.

    Of course this

    Wow. You really did stop reading it where you said you did. .
    could account for your behaviour in which case I can only recommend you to go back and read the whole post you were originally responding to. I certainly won´t require you to punch yourself in the face after you do so, but the whole situation will likely start looking different…

  22. #47
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland

    new gameplay footage!



    What a video.

  23. #48
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Huh, Kojima wearing a Joy Division t-shirt.

  24. #49
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    It's been known he's a Joy Division fan for decades.

  25. #50
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Well not by me, so *nyah*

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