So a System Shock with stealth? Great, gonna try this one.
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Last edited by Flux; 13th Jan 2015 at 06:32.
So a System Shock with stealth? Great, gonna try this one.
Contributing at the moment... have some demo & solid ai & weapons & tools but we're blocked how to present the whole thing and proceed...some serious designers perhaps, want to give hand?Interested in contributing, play testing, just trying it out...?
Nice work, man. Reminds me of Chronicles of Riddick a bit.
I like where this is going. Keep it up!
Although, for all the glowy stuff and high-tech gear Future Guys are wearing, they still weren't issued mounted flashlights with those power suits.
Got a chance to watch the entire video - looks like a really cool project. Is it going to be an 50/50 mix of stealth/action, a pure hybrid type of game? There's some stealth in the beginning, and I can see the light gem in the bottom left, but after the first couple of minutes, the vid pretty much turn to all action/shooting/violence.
Thought I might have heard some "borrowed" TDS zombie sound effects in there, right?
Also, I noticed the url for your website at the end, and it didn't work. Then I did a Whois and saw it wasn't even registered yet! Might want to jump on that, since the vid's on youtube and all.
Anyway, looks great so far - I wouldn't be much help in the design area, but I'd love help playtest and alpha/beta versions. Anything you can tell us on the story?
Thanks for the feedback.
We have a playable demo and several mid-size European publishers and one big American distributor wanted to play it after seeing the video. They all refused to sign the game.
Reason : "Too difficult, too old-school stealth."
Of course they didn't word it this way but that's what they hinted at. I can't blame them. Publishers send demo to market research companies or have one in-house, they build focus-groups and let kids play.
So "free-roaming, truly large, non-linear levels with multiple-paths, strictly first-person, staying in shadows type of stealth game, without any flashing arrows to lead you" is boring perhaps.
Also we got feedback along the lines like "prototype is good, solid, but should add more "horror" elements."
This is where I got lost and can't proceed and try to add some feedback/expand team.
Nowadays, it is even impossible to get listed on steam, they have their own greenlighting system.
ascottk around here helped with rigging & animations, James Tan from udk community did all the programming. I did the rest along with two local character artists.
We spent like a whole year to have bugless-flawless ai & working weapons & tools. We even have bug-less saving and loading system that we worked for months to have it done in old-school way, a.ka without check-points and "save-whenever you want" kind of saving system and it works. But who cares? Majority of customers truly want a linear game I guess.
I also don't know what "you should streamline stealth, add more horror elements" means. I mean, I think I know, but...nevermind...
Last edited by Flux; 14th Jul 2013 at 03:37.
(seriously, everything I've read about the methods úsually employed does not reccommend their science one bit and is generally guaranteed to self select for stuff they already make or people have already played).
I don't know what you should do next exactly. Kickstarter is a bit of a jump and not what it was even a year ago. Keep going as best you can I guess.
Anyway, looks good. The enemies look a bit slow off the mark. I'm probably not the one to ask though. I fantasise more and more about a stealth game where the enemies can see more or less like people and then react like them. Which I'm aware is a good way to make something unbelievably hard, if it's even possible to pull off.
It's not bad.
The voice acting on the "guard" is terrible though, and you sure have to make a lot of noise to be noticed.
As Muzman mentioned Kickstarter.. have you considered a Kickstarter campaign? Or any other type of crowdfunding?
The responses you're getting from the publishers seem to fit perfectly with the average kickstarter developer's "why kickstarter is awesome"-stories.
Your proof of concept is pretty cool. I'd back it. Though I have to say a bit more backstory would do a lot for me. Why do they sound like robots? Why are they all armed? What does this industrial complex actually do? I know that doesn't really change the game play, but it does create a certain atmosphere, something we're all looking for when judging a game, as do publishers.
If you're looking for things to entice people I'd say improve on the guards' mumblings. There's a lot of opportunities for making them more alive and comical. "Okay..? What was that? It sure wasn't my grandma.." is not something a guard would say out loud when just hearing a shot and noticing a light failing. "What-the..." followed by a "Is that you..? ...Steve?" or something somewhat later would work better (IMHO). It allows the player to scare the NPCs somewhat and feel power over them, instead of just being afraid of them.
I'd link the "...sure wasn't my grandma" with the 'return to regular tasks' event. Perhaps even indicating a permanent raised awareness.
I know a proof-of-concept doesn't need to be perfect, but if it isn't, it asks a lot of creativity and imagination from the reviewer. And generally creative types don't end up working at publishers.
Guard voices are "ascottk, the animator having fun". I thought it is obvious that they're placeholders. Female voices are text-to-speech stuff, heck she even says "I'm a place-holder mission hostess"
Guards' hearing threshold and their alertness to player's noise can be adjusted on the fly. James did an excellent work on "archetypes". Which is, each designer can create totally new AI, weapons, new hacking tools, damage systems, puzzles, menus & inventories right within the editor, without touching a single line of code, easily implemented, just drag & drop style.
I'm not from US or UK so I can't use kickstarter, perhaps only with a co-producer/co-designer who is from US/UK
Apart from cutscenes and professional voice actors, almost the whole content for the game is done, just needs polishing.
Assuming we rise 20.000 usd from kickstarter, I still wouldn't know where to spend it. Yeah, polish this and that, hire semi-pro actors to do voices. The question would remain, which platform to sell?
Before, Steam would reply to indie producers' emails every 6 months, now they don't even have to at all. They say "Apply to greenlight system. Get as many as votes possible." Which is fine, after all it is commercial platform. Even if the whole "ttlg" back up this game, it is still in the dark, to be accepted on steam or not.
Heck, part of me says, with the whole content & system we have we could have easily implemented a "survival-horror" game, which wouldn't be me...but...sells easier...
For the story, it is not very original I know, but it is flexible enough to let the player, who is a rogue stealth-agent on the run, traveling to exotic planets & space stations & ships and infiltrate to obtain and sell "data" on the market and gather new cool gadgets, only to discover the very company he works for is more than just a company, a giant network of ai simulations that aim to rule the entire galaxy.
Last edited by Flux; 14th Jul 2013 at 09:44.
Good voice actors apparently cost more than a car to read a few lines, considering how rarely they are used, so you are probably going to spend everything on that.
Regarding the platform, have you tried contacting GOG?
@2:17 is a missed opportunity to use 451.
If you're gonna take anything from DX1, don't use its utterly unengaging hacking where you just stand there and hold down a button. Be inspired by Human Revolution's hacking, it's the one of the few games I've encountered where it isn't just a time filler (or terrible like, Bioshock 1's Pipe Dream), it's actually fun and engaging.
Wait, this thread gives the impression that you're trying to sell the game as "scifi Thief"... then @5:19 the gameplay video goes out into all FPS manshoot mode where you're a bullet sponge. In Thief your player character was very fragile and thus ideally you would want to avoid direct combat whenever possible.
Last edited by EvaUnit02; 14th Jul 2013 at 19:41.
Isn't GOG for "old" games that are released elsewhere?
Same here, more or less. This is more like a "proof-of-concept" video to showcase what is written in the design document is actually working. Hence, the machine gun is working. But with this player settings, you'll want to avoid direct combat as much as possible, the guns are for more "defense" and distraction purposes.In Thief your player character was very fragile and thus ideally you would want to avoid direct combat whenever possible.
Also this thread in my wish is not about "hey guys I made a cool game, check it out" but rather "Hey, ttlg, I really did some sort of game, it has really stealth ai in it but the publishers' feedback gave me real headache, whaddaya say?"
It is for sure not about trying to sell anyone "scifi Thief", the game can't even be on any platform to be sold...at the moment...
What about trying the Might & Blade model?
Get an unfinished version out there asap, publish it yourself to hardcore gamers, charge low amounts for the beta version and ramp the price up as you make progress. You can use any money towards further development, and if you succeed in building up a loyal community, you can use that as proof that the market is out there.
This could presumably be combined with kickstarter at some appropriate time too, if there are items that can't easily start off small and be grown over time. (For example, professional voice acting, or maybe just getting your first beta out there.)
Dude this thing looks AMAZING, with a really nice level of polish for an indie game, big kudos. IT's the kind of a game I'd absolutely love to help with on the design and coding front... but unfortunately I'm a bit preoccupied with my own game coming out August 15th.
You also mentioned greenlight - I just went through the process and put my game on it, it's not really that hard to get the page up and the $100 fee isn't much all things considered. Marketing and getting approved is gonna be a whole different story, of course, but I wouldn't discredit it if I were you. You got some quality material right there, good chances given the kind of stuff getting approved on Greenlight.
Get on Greenlight and shoot some e-mails/tweets to as many game journalism outlets as you can think of (this seems right up Rock, Paper, Shotgun's alley, so I would be surprised if they didn't do a short thing on the game once it's brought to their attention, and news about it will spread from there). At worst you're out $100 (and it's a one time fee, so you can re-submit you're game when you have more content), but you'll likely get a fair amount of additional exposure out of it, which you could try to leverage into a Kickstarter or IndieGoGo (more likely, since you've already said you're not in a Kickstarter territory) campaign, or do Minecraft/CubeWorld style alpha funding if you can manage to get together your own hosting and storefront.
If you do go with crowdfunding, be clear about what the money is being used for.
Yeah, neither "good" nor "old" really mean much anymore, so it's only natural that they'd just rename to gog.
You've got that cool thing, you surely have a good idea of how it should play and what the core concepts are, but what's your ultimate goal? Make a name for yourself in the industry? Make as much money as possible? Make enough money to keep working on the game, expand it and make it as you envisioned it? Just get something out? Deciding on how to present the game to the public, how or if to fund it and how far you could alter your initial vision for the sake of marketing, they all depend on that goal.
Just out of interest, how did the project start and what did keep you guys going?
EDIT: This post might come off are more negative as I'd like it to be. I really do find what I see promising and if the project comes to fruition, I'll definitely get a copy. I'm sorry I don't have much to contribute except big ideas, I've tried my hand at mostly everything regarding game and music making but never kept at it long enough to become skilled...
Last edited by Briareos H; 15th Jul 2013 at 05:22.
Lots of good ideas, thanks folks really. Looks like I buried myself in some sort of cave to get the demo & prototype done and forgot about having some fun. I'll consider these all.
My only aim is to have this game out, and make a small income out of it so that I can hire few more people to do more "stealth levels" as I did enjoy making this and that for Thief Deadly Shadows...Yeah medieval is fun but sci-fi settings intrigues me more for level design. Also, along the last two years while waiting for "applications, coders' emails", I generated ton of content, which looks good for sci-fi setting in terms of indie standards, and I don't waste it.
James Tan, our programmer did an excellent job for unreal script. I know TDS editor, I know DromEd, I'm sure our scripting capabilities can match those. Coming up different ideas and scripting them is so easy, besides the code resides on top of Unreal engine, which is also very powerful...So much can be done for a stealth game with our version of unreal editor, I don't want to go it wasted...
Briareos H, I understand your points and no, they don't sound negative at all...Just making levels in unreal engine is the most fun perhaps, I can think of as an "computer activity" ; I have zero interest making a name in the industry.
For years, I've been making levels in unreal editor, now that indies can license it, I should be doing something useful with the whole experience and "savings" I did generate. And a sci-fi stealth game was the most logical choice for me...
Anyhow, thanks guys, I'll read each post again and ponder over...
Last edited by Flux; 15th Jul 2013 at 11:23.