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Thread: T1 FM - Autumn in Lampfire Hills - Newdark Re-release - Updated 2014-10-07

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2003
    Location: Nampa, Idaho
    I'm not having any problems with DarkLoader. Mission loads up fine. Under New Dark, I thought the game engines were the same.

  2. #52
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    can some one just please update darkloader
    No small task there, and not likely to happen. I like Darkloader, but recently I just decided it was time to finally abandon it and start using FMSel. Just makes everything run much smoother.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    I wish it was only because of this:

    Problem:
    Some object textures or entire objects are invisible (on some ATI/AMD video cards).
    Cause:
    Adaptive multi-sample anti-aliasing.
    Solutions:
    * Go into Catalyst Control Center and set "Anti-Aliasing Mode" to
    any setting that is NOT "Adaptive Multi-sample AA".
    * Disable multi-sampling ("multisampletype")

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2003
    Location: Nampa, Idaho
    I believe someone has already D/L'd the source code for DarkLoader and was tinkering with an update. The person said it was written in Delphi, but claimed he could hang with it. I'm guessing he may be trying to re-write the thing from the ground up, using whatever code is popular nowadays.

  5. #55
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Seems like it would make more sense for someone to grab the source for FMSel and manipulate it to look more like Darkloader.

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    Downwinder's problem is almost certainly running the Thief1 mission with Thief2, as there are a few texture families that are the same, and have the same textures names (such as city) between the two games. The missing textures would appear as black. In addition, the scripts such as opening doors wouldn't work because most of that stuff was moved to the "gen" script for thief2, which isn't loaded. It would also explain why it's happened on a few other missions for him. He should follow the steps SlyFoxx posted. It literally takes just a minute.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Concerning Darkloader and languages in NewDark (v1.21): I have looked into that a while ago. Based on some experiments, it looks like NewDark's language support is different from the original game's, and Darkloader is not compatible with the changes.

    Basically, Thief 2 v1.18 handles language support a bit different than NewDark. FMSel can handle that, because it actually doesn't bother with language, but leaves that to NewDark, which in turn checks out the language setting in DARKINST.CFG (INSTALL.CFG is ignored). Therefore, the language of the game itself will be used if possible. There are a few hints that things get more complicated with other languages if FMSel is involved, but I have not dived too deep into that.

    Darkloader, however, alters the directory structure of the mission's zip file based on the language the player selects when installing/playing a mission. Some language-specific directories are emptied or even completely erased, while the contents of others are moved around in the directory structure. This is complicated but works very well if Thief v1.18 is used. For non-english players using NewDark, however, Darkloader's approach messes up things, and you usually do not get the language you selected. An english version of Thief 2 patched to NewDark may, however, work well with Darkloader - mine does (and Ricebug's too, I think). On the other hand, my german version of Thief, patched to NewDark, does not work with Darkloader (concerning language selection): I always get English, never German, for a mission available in English and German.

    Whether this explains why the French language files in "Lampfire Hills" are suddenly used, I cannot say, but the basic solution seems to be that if Darkloader gives you trouble with NewDark, stop using it and switch to FMSel instead. I didn't want to do it either, but nothing else worked reliably for me.
    Last edited by baeuchlein; 10th Oct 2014 at 10:24. Reason: Missing "r" added

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Malmö, Sweden
    This mission is an absolute classic, and one of my most played missions.

    Of course I had to play again now that it was updated. Some things that stood out this time:

    * The fact that food may heal you in this version makes Beak's Grocery a treasure trove...

    * Contrary to my habit, I visited the bar when a couple of the town guards were still up and running. After I had robbed (the late) Talbot's room, I went out the door there and onto an outside arch to admire the view. Suddenly, a big fight broke out. I even heard some Hammerites getting involved (I had picked the door to their chapel) and fire explosions. The fight went on for over a minute. Crazy!
    When it had calmed down, I went down the stairs to the bar and found a gruesome battlefield: six bodies! The barkeep, two civilians, the thief and two guards (swordsman + archer). Yikes.

    * "..., being of clouded mind and frenzied disposition..." Gotta love that.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    Yeah, I included the T1 fixed gamesys which fixes food not healing you. (It was always intended to randomly heal you 1 point about 25% of the time). The fight breaks out because the Bar folk are on one team, and the guards patrolling the town are on another. This is the same in the original. Keep the bar door closed so they don't see each other and you'll be fine. =P

    Glad you enjoyed the updated mission. =) Did you notice the falling book in the library? I added that because I never even knew there was a book hidden there. It blended in too well.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Lille, France
    Quote Originally Posted by jiansonz View Post
    * Contrary to my habit, I visited the bar when a couple of the town guards were still up and running. After I had robbed (the late) Talbot's room, I went out the door there and onto an outside arch to admire the view. Suddenly, a big fight broke out. I even heard some Hammerites getting involved (I had picked the door to their chapel) and fire explosions. The fight went on for over a minute. Crazy!
    When it had calmed down, I went down the stairs to the bar and found a gruesome battlefield: six bodies! The barkeep, two civilians, the thief and two guards (swordsman + archer). Yikes.

    * "..., being of clouded mind and frenzied disposition..." Gotta love that.
    That's awesome !!

    Took any pics of the lunatic fringe ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiMatter_16
    Did you notice the falling book in the library? I added that because I never even knew there was a book hidden there. It blended in too well.
    I haven't found it, I just saw an empty place on the shelf... Oh, well....

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2006
    So I played this for the first time using Antimatter's NewDark updated version after hearing how good it was and I must say for a 1999 mission this one really does everything it does quite well. If I played it back in 1999 I probably would have thought it was the best mission made at the time, I'm sure. It has some issues with things not really being of good scale and all, but overall the gameplay/story all worked. Good clues too (for example the keeper library hinted at one of the secrets necessary to proceed).

    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    can some one just please update darkloader

    its starting to get hard to play a fan mission with all these textures showing up black making i would say 3-5 missions unplayable that i have experienced
    Unless an update is done with DarkLoader to make it NewDark loading-style capable, I would just suggest using FMsel. It's pretty easy to transition to using it except maybe copying your completed mission data over. That can be a pain. It doesn't look as nice or have as nice of information and tagging display features as DarkLoader but it's pretty good and does what it needs to.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: On parole
    replaying this mission in Newdark and have noticed a small change / bug

    in the tavern there is an man with a purse to frob, but he will not allow you to steal it until the Hammer acolyte starts singing...well that's what happens in the original version, but with Newdark you can wait half an hour, and no singing....no deal breaker, i just downed the little sod with a gas arrow, but was this intentional or is it a Newdark bug ?
    quicksave https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7U...ew?usp=sharing

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    I'm afraid this is a case of mis-remembering the original. There is nothing setup so that the Thief ignores you when the hammerite is singing. You can only pickpocket the Thief in Brimstone Inn if he isn't aware of you. If you enter the front door he'll see you, and track you (even if he's not facing you).

    There used to be a non-physical barrel behind the thief that's in darkness, but I fixed the placement of the barrel so that it's now physical. In the original, you probably just hid in the darkness and he eventually forgot about you. You can still hide in darkness there, but you have to jump on top of the barrel. You also have to frob the purse while IN the darkness, so you'll have to lean forward to do that.

    Alternatively, you can just enter the Brimstone Inn by using a rope arrow to get to the top room. Drop to the first floor (rather than walking down the steps) behind the Thief's line of sight, and you can just take his purse. This assumes he hasn't spotted you recently.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: On parole
    Thank you for that AntiMatter, the singing bit came from Ponterbee's walkthrough,

    then go stand by the barrel behind the thief. Wait a few moments till the Hammer acolyte starts chanting and the thief forgets about you and then you can pickpocket his purse


    and as i heard some sort of singing as i went into the tavern....well i kind of remember it being a tough pick from the last time i played and assumed Ponterbee was correct

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Norway (currently Phoenix, AZ)
    I gotta replay this one soon!
    Klatremus' Supreme Thief Site - Walkthroughs, Loot Lists & Ghost Reports
    Let's Supreme Ghost Thief - YouTube Channel with Thief Let's Plays

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    I started out playing the original version of this FM with the old T1 textures, but got hit with the switch+key bug and thought it was a simple matter of an old FM not working with Newdark. I was happy to find that AM_16 went to the trouble to redo this. Lucky for me I unlocked the special mystery lock on the cottage correctly.

    I'm mostly done, but missed an important key. I have not yet found the trap door to the psychic's house. I'll find that soon enough. Very cool early mission. Some nasty tight spots here and there. Worth a replay if you haven't for a long time, or a play for the first time. Thanks OP

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: Slovenia
    I remember I loved the mission when i first played it.
    But at the time i was a reckless blackjacker. Thats no longer the path i walk on.
    I tried it not a long ago (the old version) and was deeply upset over the amount of ghost busts (at least for me, maybe im not that good).

    Did improvements touch ghost style experiance, or is the mission just prettier?


    @Klatremus I'd love to see you take this one on.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Norway (currently Phoenix, AZ)
    It's on my to-do list for sure. I played it years ago, before being bitten by the ghost bug.
    So many missions, so little time...
    Klatremus' Supreme Thief Site - Walkthroughs, Loot Lists & Ghost Reports
    Let's Supreme Ghost Thief - YouTube Channel with Thief Let's Plays

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    I'm certain it's impossible to perfect ghost as is. However, it *might* be possible to ghost. I've never tried. The problem area would be the hammer church/cathedral, where you need to douse the torches in the sanctuary, and possibly use moss arrows. I'm not sure what other problem areas exist.

    One bug/oddity I fixed was that sleeping AI have normal vision, which makes a couple areas possible to sneak through without waking anyone now.

    I'm not a ghoster myself (I prefer to blackjack everyone before they see me, which I think is called "Blackjack Queen?"). But I could make a few changes to make it possible/easier to ghost. I think perfect ghost is unlikely to be implemented because it would require changes which go beyond the scope of staying true to the original.

    The problem with the Cathedral is that it has 5 AIs, 3 of which patrol or stand in the main sanctuary which is very well lit. I wouldn't want to remove them, but there's not really any places I could make them go within the church in order to allow the player to sneak past. Especially while keeping the torches lit as required by "Perfect Ghost".

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Norway (currently Phoenix, AZ)
    If by 'Perfect Ghost' you're referring to Perfect Thief, that is the same as normal Ghost mode but also taking all the loot. It does not prevent you from dousing torches. Supreme Ghost is more challenging, which disallows the removal of light sources (dousing torches/lamps/light switches) and the use of moss arrows. Perfect Supreme Ghost is then the latter + all the loot (very tough and rare to achieve!).
    Klatremus' Supreme Thief Site - Walkthroughs, Loot Lists & Ghost Reports
    Let's Supreme Ghost Thief - YouTube Channel with Thief Let's Plays

  21. #71
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2016
    Location: Germany
    I hope necroposting doesn't count here, so I'll just ask.

    What is it with:
    1. The hidden switch in the hammerite church. It is squeezed between the cupboard and the wall of the sleeping hammerite room. A conveniently placed lantern indicates you are supposed to find it. But it doesn't seem to do anything.
    2. The empty room above the tomb the ghost is roaming. You can reach it with a rope arrow. There seems to be a hidden metal door in the wall, but no switch to be found.

    I already thought about those two being connected, but they aren't.

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: On parole
    The lever in the Priest's bedroom opens the sewer hatch, but if you climbed into the Hammerite church from the sewers the lever does not re-shut the sewer hatch IIRC.

    Yes that is a hidden doorway, but it only opened from the other side, in the room at the top of the stairs where there are a couple of zombies, there's a lever high up on one of the pillars. It's meant as a sneaky way into the King's tomb, thus avoiding Sorrack.

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