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Thread: "No Man's Sky" is procedural sci-fi exploration, and *purdy*.

  1. #126
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    I'll bet we'll see a lot of clones that aren't even as good.

  2. #127
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    It's been interesting following this game's release. Seems like a deeply flawed title
    I haven't bought it either, but it's been interesting following, yes. I wouldn't call it "deeply flawed" though. It's pretty clear that it functions as intended, and most of the deviations from earlier trailers are due to technical limitations(getting a thing like this running smoothly on one system is tricky enough, launching it on both PC and PS4 in the same week is a bold move for a small indie team) or are just gameplay design decisions. I don't like how casual the flight model is, with your ship automatically hovering a certain distance above the terrain without being able to go lower, unlike in the first trailers where it could fly really close, but I realize that this isn't because the devs somehow messed up. It's pretty clear they made it like that to make the game more accessible to gamers who aren't into flight sims. As nicked described it a while back, it's a "casual space game". A niche well worth filling, it turns out.

  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I'd take deeply flawed but interesting over a little flawed but boring any day. Alpha Protocol, Deadly Premonition, a David Cage game... as long as it's entertaining I have no regrets.

  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    For me it's a case-by-case thing. Having played Heavy Rain, I don't need to play another Dabid Cage game any time soon... but I'm glad there are people who fill these niches and who try out things. They could've handled NMS's pre-launch phase better, but I consider gaming richer for covering a wide range and allowing for ambition and experiments, even when some of the latter fail. I prefer an industry that produces iffy outliers like Molyneux to one where everything falls within a much narrower spectrum.

  5. #130
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Also, despite that clickbait video title, the game is actually nothing like Aliens: Colonial Marines. For all its flaws, it actually is a coherent game that mostly works and approximately corresponds to what a small indie team would be capable of. It just falls short of expectations, some of which were inferred from vague statements or completely made up.
    Ahem. "For all its flaws, it actually is a coherent game that mostly works" could used to describe A:CM not too long after launch as well. You come off like a Kool Aid drinking shill.

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    New patch today. Not sure what's fixed this time, but it's not crashed once for me since the 1.04 patch.

    Still loving the game. I can also highly recommend it as a social game - had a few great evenings recently of just getting a bunch of friends round the one TV, passing the controller round, and coming up with hilarious animal names by committee. You can't really permanently fuck up or lose any progress (barring bugs), so it's not like you lose anything having loads of people playing it.

  7. #132
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    The only time I can stand procedural generation is when the gameplay mechanics are strong enough that it doesn't matter whether you're playing with something algorithmically generated (Minecraft, and maybe FTL), or there's a generous mix of authorial intervention with the random crap (XCOM). A toybox is only as good as the toys in it.

    Janky survivalist games set in environments decided by a random seed? Blergh.

  8. #133
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Ahem. "For all its flaws, it actually is a coherent game that mostly works" could used to describe A:CM not too long after launch as well. You come off like a Kool Aid drinking shill.
    And you come off as an edgy teenager whose opinion is based on clickbait youtube videos. If you had read my review in this thread, you would have seen that I was highly critical of the game, but I guess reading is too difficult for kids these days. The fact is that the game mostly does what it's supposed to, terrible PC launch notwithstanding. It's not as exciting as people expected, but it's not an unmitigated disaster that some people would have you believe.

    There are actually more balanced reactions out there beside the circlejerk whipped up frenzies:



    Oh, and I went to look at the big lie list that a lot of the outrage videos are based on and it turns out that some of the missing features actually are in the game. For example, different ships behaving differently: https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTh...vivability_in/
    Last edited by Starker; 23rd Aug 2016 at 06:35.

  9. #134
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Look at that, someone made a mod that lets you fly closer to the ground! I was thinking I'd probably get this for PS4 when I eventually pick it up in a sale, but if the PC community keeps making more mods like this I might change my tune.

  10. #135
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Quote Originally Posted by 242 View Post
    Yesterday I lold at this for like half an hour.
    Looks like a walking roast chicken...

  11. #136
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    You come off like a Kool Aid drinking shill.
    I don't like that phrase now I know where it came from. I'd prefer to keep this thread on the positive side rather than importing YouTube toxicity.

    I find it tedious that there are people out there who can be bothered to make YouTube videos about this sort of thing with the seriousness of a news report of a natural disaster. "This game isn't quite what we were expecting! Here's a tediously detailed proof of why the developers deserve to be brought to justice". Well something similar at least.

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Yeah, and it makes me sad that there's probably loads of impressionable people who believe that the ability to upload a YouTube video makes one an expert, many of whom (in this instance) might enjoy this game a lot but will skip it because someone else wanted to complain about it to get ad revenue.

  13. #138
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I expect that not everyone will be a fan of Cool Ghosts' style, but if you enjoy their stuff or at least don't mind it, you might like their recent video on "No Man's Land: The Best Game Ever":


  14. #139
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Hahaha, "Why did I spend forty pounds on an incredibly niche, chilled out, shapes and colours simulator?"

  15. #140
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    wow I have steered clear of the hype of this, but man it looks really underwhelming. Draw distance is really quite crap.

  16. #141
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    I played No Man's Sky for 10 days, like a madman. During those 10 days, I prepared myself for a big journey through space. I got a 24-slot multi-tool on the 2nd day I played, I got a 48-slot exosuit the next day. Two days later I had a 41-slot spaceship. That's when I decided to leave my starter planet. I think I had a 47-slot ship when I decided to make my first warp-jump to another star-system. There was a snow-planet with terrible snow-storms there. I spend a few hours walking around there, far away from my space-ship. Great fun. I spent another day or so hunting crashed space-ships, trying to find a 48-slot ship that looked better than my Mamogawa S56. Couldn't find one. My Mamogawa is pink. Can't beat that.

    So yesterday I decided I was ready for the big journey. I started jumping from star-system to star-system. After your 4th jump or so, you'll get to a point where you have to make a decision. I backed up my savefiles, and decided to go to the core of the galaxy. I made 21 warp-jumps until I figured out how this journey works. My estimate is that you'll have to make ~500 warp-jumps to get there. No thanks. The warp-jumps are kind irritating in itself (shitty UI). Not gonna do that 500 times. Going through black-holes (well, worm-holes to be precise) might be quicker. But also might be slower.

    So I copied back my old savefiles. And decided to go into another direction. 1 Hour and 20 minutes later I had finished the game. As I had been afraid of, if you prepare your journey well, the journey itself is rather short. I'm done with the game.

    No Man's Sky is not a very good game. Parts of it are entertaining. Parts of it are boring. Being an old MMO-player, I don't mind a little grinding, as long as the repetition is not too much in-your-face. I can deal with inventory management. I can deal with bad control of your space-ship, slow walking, etc. No problem. But still, NMS is not a good game.


    At the same time: No Man's Sky is AWESOME !

    The procedural generation works really well. I'm amazed. It produces some very nice worlds, with interesting topologies and believable vegetation. That one snow-covered planet I was on, was so good, it could have been hand-made, in stead of being generated. Some planet were boring. But the ones with above-average vegetation looked really nice. I always liked Morrowind, because of the plants and mushrooms and other flora there. No game has ever gave me that same feeling again, where I though I was in a truly different world. NMS reminded me of that.

    I can see how this technology could be applied to other games, just to generate larger worlds. Worlds so large and diverse that websites can't make detailed guides anymore. Worlds so large and diverse that you can do real exploration again. Worlds in an MMO that are so large that you don't need to replicate server any more. One huge world, with huge generated areas, that is so big that it can harbor 2 million concurrent players. Areas with generated flora, so that every area in that world truly feels different. The possibilities are endless. Of course this is not enough to create a good game. You need game-play for that. But for the setting, the background, the environment, a procedurally generated world can bring so much more to the table.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 24th Aug 2016 at 17:57.

  17. #142
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    That is possibly the most exciting prospect - what will the 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation of this kind of game look like? How much further can this technology go?

  18. #143
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    When a game can procedurally generate a world like Skyrim, which incidentally was very template heavy even as a 'designed' world so it's not as crazy as it sounds, and IMO voxel building is the key piece, I think this genre will have arrived.

    The legacy of NMS I bet will be what it inspires in the next generation. Right now so many people are seeing the potential, "if only they added..." whatever it is. But I don't see this game shutting down the genre. We'll get a dream game out of it sooner or later.

  19. #144
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Maybe 1-2 generations in is where I'd like to start off as I've not played NMS and after the heap of planned features that were cut for release I think I'll wait a year to see if they get added back in.

    As it stands, it just needs a bit more depth to it all. I don't mind grinding, it goes hand in hand with RPGs (more the JRPG end) so that's fine. But if every alien looks the same, there's no real factions in the game and no player interaction side of it then no thanks.

    It does sound like a game to play for like 2-3 days, but not beyond that.

  20. #145
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I'd love to see procedural generation applied to just many biomes of one planet. Also I'd love for some kind of hyper-accelerated evolution to occur during the generation to drive the prevailing lifeform diversity.

  21. #146
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    Look at that, someone made a mod that lets you fly closer to the ground! /.../
    Speaking of mods, the current "mandatory" mod list:

    * LowFlight by Hytek (flight restrictions removed and issues enhanced - ffs. just don't be an absolute idiot and you will be fine [make backups of your saves if you do not trust yourself])
    http://nomansskymods.com/mods/lowfli...-hytek-packed/

    * ShutUp by Jackalopalen (can choose which of the 134 annoying messages you want to hear - ffs. barely any ... only 122th is somewhat useful audibly [life support offline])
    http://nomansskymods.com/mods/shutup...udio-warnings/

    * Actions by Shadwar (hold time set to zero - ffs. click is enough)
    http://nomansskymods.com/mods/fast-actions/

    Missing so far:
    * Skip "milestone" blackout.
    * Skip excessively slow NPC animations.

    Not listing the mods that "fix" graphical issues (shit filters etc) - as thous are more subjective. Some like, some do not.

  22. #147
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by PigLick View Post
    wow I have steered clear of the hype of this, but man it looks really underwhelming. Draw distance is really quite crap.
    It is a neat, albeit a bit short in what it has to offer in gameplay, 10-15$ game ... hyped/overpriced to hell.

    In regards to draw distance: it is very good - you are comparing apples and oranges. None of the technics used in other games can be used in this kind of game. You should compare it with more relevant games like Minecraft (*). The draw distance is very good.

    -----------------------------
    I personally do not like any voxel lod'ing technics i have ever seen on a relevant scale (everything unavoidably changes shape based on distance causing multiple excessive popping fronts to move with you) - but the only alternatives i have seen in production ... are still in production (hell) and while visually MUCH better they are technically VERY limiting. None of which can do what NMS does.

    *) Minecraft has no lod'ing and consequently extremely limited draw distance - 16^3 voxel based chunks either exist on GPU or not.

  23. #148
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    I would actually like to play this game now, but it's more apparent it's just been shoved into the wrong category. It's a game that shares more with subnautica or minecraft, which you'd have expected to be early access or open beta. We're more forgiving and the devs react to our comments and add the bits we think are missing. It's not assassin's creed or tomb raider. So I'll be waiting for a drop to 20 or lower. Shame as there are likely a lot of people in the same position.

  24. #149
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I'd say that's a fair assessment. I'm still plugging away at it. It's so much better when you actually spend time exploring the planets and analysing the random creations in enough detail to think up meaningful names. Just fly around collecting locations and upgrades though and it starts to feel very samey / shallow.

  25. #150
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    I actually love that cool ghosts video posted earlier because it's exactly the intelligent perspective I've been after on games in general. They haven't traded quality for popularity.

    So Sony please drop the price and probably make more money from the people on the fence...

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