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Thread: Alien: Isolation - The First Alien Film Meets System Shock 2?

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    The Dallas cocoon scene was a deleted scene and the supposed 2003 "Director's Cut" which restores it isn't endorsed by Ridley Scott.
    Ummm, what? Despite his explicit endorsement at the start of the film and discussion in the commentary you mean?

    (It's one reason I love the directors cut, for the sake of it. You could completely orphan Aliens as far as I'm concerned. Of course you can't really, but the continuity is a joke at this point so who really cares - was I think the thinking. So why not show how it might have been.)

  2. #27
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    There's a Directors Cut of Alien?

    I didn't know this and I've never seen it? What else extra is in it?

    FWIW - I thought the extra scenes at the start of Aliens in the extended/directors version were totally unnecessary. I actually groaned when I Newt screamed.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    I liked that scene. It was scary. Camerons whole 'oh they're eusocial insects' reduced the things from proper eldritch horrors to just kind of big bug-men. I'll take ridleys poorly-defined semi-magical (or at least ridiculously high-tech) bioweapon (I even dig the black goop as a precursor from Prometheus, although the film in general sucked) over camerons bug-things. The ability of the alien to just arbitrarily transform our bodies into whatever it wanted was part of that.

    Nu - it's the 2003 cinematic release. There is a bit where Ripley slaps Lambert, a bit with the alien signal getting translated, and the cocoon scene. I think that's about it? It's actually shorter than the original run.

  4. #29
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzman View Post
    Ummm, what? Despite his explicit endorsement at the start of the film and discussion in the commentary you mean?
    You've got the Quadrilogy DVD release? Watch Scott's video introduction. The original 1977 cut remains is his preferred version, the alternative 2003 cut was called "Director's Cut" entirely for marketing purposes.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Phatose View Post
    I wonder how much they'll be able to avoid anything Aliens outside of the first film.
    Seeing as they acknowledge that Ripley had/has a daughter, they're already ventured into the territory of Aliens as that information doesn't exist until the second movie. Also, the daughter had died of old age in Aliens.

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    It isn't canon in the slightest, just the Aliens lifecycle involving the Queen.
    The Dallas cocoon scene was a deleted scene and the supposed 2003 "Director's Cut" which restores it isn't endorsed by Ridley Scott.
    Most games from this series have been fast and loose with canon. You're probably right though.

    I only bring it up since they seem to be trying so hard to separate themselves from Aliens and beyond. But I suppose Amanda Ripley wasn't actually mentioned until the beginning of Aliens, so maybe they're not distancing themselves all that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
    Seeing as they acknowledge that Ripley had/has a daughter, they're already ventured into the territory of Aliens as that information doesn't exist until the second movie. Also, the daughter had died of old age in Aliens.
    Ninjaed.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzman View Post
    The trailer gave me less of an Amnesia vibe and more of scripting and mechanical heaviness like Outlast.
    I thought it seemed like it could go either way. I'm hoping it's more like Amnesia or System Shock 2. I think I'd rather have a finished version of Obsidian's Aliens game if it's just going to be a scripted horror-fest.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    You've got the Quadrilogy DVD release? Watch Scott's video introduction. The original 1977 cut remains is his preferred version, the alternative 2003 cut was called "Director's Cut" entirely for marketing purposes.
    Semantics. You're taking him not saying "This is the Final Cut" like Blade Runner as disendorsement. He oversaw the cut. He put that scene back in and it was run in cinemas. It was only dropped for time and pacing initially anyway (and yes its fascinating to think that had we seen more of the life cycle in the first place, the sequel might not have been Space Termites. The ship has sailed now of course)

  9. #34
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I have to see this version now!

    It's called the "Directors Cut"?
    Telepathy is not mind reading. It is the direct linking... ...of nervous systems... ...separated by space.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2013
    Location: Czech Republic
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    Im from banbury. I know the dudes ex wife.
    HOT DAMN, you so cool buddy! This extremely relevant information certainly adds additional weight to your expert opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    Its bad whedon, for the most part.
    Yeah? Except if Joss Whedon could write stuff like the Ravenor books on his bad day the Firefly would not get cancelled after the first season.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    So the wh40k stuff is excellent? Compared to what, exactly? What other books have you read that you consider well written?
    I like Herbert. I think that large part of the Dune series is well written, but I would say that the Ravenor trilogy and the second and third Eisenhorn books are better than everything that he wrote after God Emperor of Dune.

    I like Asimov. I think that Elias Baley trilogy is well written, but if I was to view all three books simply as sci-fi detective stories I would say that the Ravenor trilogy and the second and third Eisenhorn books are better.

    I like Clancy. I think that Operations Centre books are well written, but I would say that that the Ravenor trilogy and the second and third Eisenhorn books are at least on par with them, are better than Dept of Honour, but worse than Bear and Dragon, Rainbow Six (the book) and Without Remorse.

    In terms of quality my problem with the first Eisenhorn book is that Abnett likely didn’t know whether he wanted to write a standard hack & slash 40k book, or go for something more when he started writing and it kind of shows. Other five books are top notch at what they do however.

    As for rest of Abnett´s 40k work. The Gaunt´s Ghosts series is likely what he is most famous for. It’s respectable military sci-fi - I would rate some of the books (First and Only, Necropolis, Only in Death, possibly even Traitor General) higher than the Vorkosigan saga stuff by Lois McMaster Bujold.

    He also wrote Double Eagle (which wasn’t all that good) and couple of Warhammer Fantasy novels of which I read Raiders of the Dead (which was cool) and something which was basically Pirates of Caribbean in Warhammer setting (I enjoy it, but the PoC parallels were so obvious it felt kinda lame). And of course a couple books set in Horus Heresy era, of which I read only Horus Rising and I gotta say that no other book (I only read about four so far though) came even close to HR´s level of quality.

    I never read any of Abnett´s non 40k works, so I am not gonna comment on them, but in any case I maintain that he is a great writer and the fact he is doing story for this thing is not only not a reason to be concerned, but is definitely good news.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Yeah ok, Dune is fucking good. Asimov is waaaay better ideas than he is at actually writing. Uh, and Clancy is tom clancy, dude. He's a military tech fetishist who only knows two character archetypes. The only guy in that sphere who can actually write properly is LeCarre.

    Dan Abnett is still not that great, as far as writers go. I guess he's ok-ish for this sort of stuff. It just makes me depressed when people describe him as a 'great writer' or whatever. Read some Ballard. I would play the shit out of this game if J.G. Ballard wrote it. Or John Wagner if we're sticking within the pulpy realm. John Wagner kicks the shit out of Abnett. Read Button Man and compare it to Durham Red if you don't believe me. Abnett just doesn't really have any style, you know? No verve. He's functional.

    Hah, yeah I am cool, thanks.

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Location: Sevastapol Station
    Quote Originally Posted by NuEffect View Post
    What do you think of the Alien growth rate in the first film VA?
    You mean from little baby ribcage eater to fully grown golem in a few hours without eating anything? (including its own molted skin, which many animals use for nourishment?) Absolutely ludicrous. Doesn't seem to affect the awesomeness of the movie.

    As for the Directors cut. It comes in at about 1 minute shorter than the original release. Some good hair raising moments in there. You could actually watch all of these scenes that were cut out from the movie on the VHS release of Aliens Special Edition, they were after the end of the movie.

    And yes. it was endorsed by Scott himself. He cut it to fix things he wanted changed after watching his own movie for 25 years.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EY_Sz1PzFQ

    I remember when it was playing in theatres, release date was Hallowe'en 2003 or something like that. It was only playing in 4 theatres in ALL of Canada for some stupid reason. And I had just finished moving from Mississauga to London before it released, and it was only playing in Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton and Vancouver. I was so pissed. I wanted to see John Hurts big scene on the big screen.

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    Dan Abnett is still not that great, as far as writers go.
    Yeah, but as far as games go the bar is not set very high. The number of games written by good writers (and then developed by a team that doesn't ruin the writing in other ways) is pretty limited.

  15. #40
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I wish someone would make an alien pinball game as the true sequel to the RS movie.

  16. #41
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    Yeah, but as far as games go the bar is not set very high. The number of games written by good writers (and then developed by a team that doesn't ruin the writing in other ways) is pretty limited.
    Doesn't mean people shouldn't try. This is a very bad attitude to it don't you think cat? Striving for better is always best.

    Fwiw The Last Of Us has great writing, as far as I've got in it anyway.
    Telepathy is not mind reading. It is the direct linking... ...of nervous systems... ...separated by space.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Writing for games is probably pretty different to writing actual static works of fiction. Depending on the game (how open-ended etc) the degree to which it's different may vary, but still.

    It's a delicate balance between "taking away all the player's agency in exchange for producing an awesome story", and "allowing large amounts of player freedom (while accepting that many players may be mouth-breathing cretins) in exchange for a less cohesive story".

    Or something.

    Anyway, basically I'd say that ability to write amazing novels does not necessarily correlate with ability to write amazing games.

    EDIT: Fuck knows where Abnett stands on that spectrum, mind you: I've read a few of his 40K novels and they were entertaining airport-fiction style stuff, but hey, it's 40K, what d'you expect?

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitions Advocate View Post
    You mean from little baby ribcage eater to fully grown golem in a few hours without eating anything? (including its own molted skin, which many animals use for nourishment?) Absolutely ludicrous. Doesn't seem to affect the awesomeness of the movie.
    I love that, it adds to the mystique. I'm sure you could extrapolate that the alien is a partially synthetic bio-weapon so perhaps it consumed part of the ship to grow, or something, but really, the fact that it is just so non-sensically alien and doesn't follow much that logically we would expect from a living organism is part of why it works so well, and why Cameron's space bees just weren't as scary.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Exxxactly

  20. #45
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I have always preferred the first Alien film to any other in the series by a considerable margin. I've been mainly surrounded by people who seem to think that the second film was the best in the series. While I do love Aliens a lot for what it is, it just doesn't have the horror aspect of the first film.

    One thing which always bugged me in Aliens is when they realise that firing the AP bullets near the reactor coolant might turn the place into a giant nuclear bomb, Gorman isn't a little more explicit about why they need to refrain from firing weapons, jsut says "no rifles peeps" and leaves it at that. Likewise, no one questions Vasquez and Drake point their smart guns everywhere with fingers on trigger (also the way the magazine fits to those guns, means they'd show externally and ought to have been noticed on inspection by Apone after he wondered why they are still pointing their guns at stuff. Of course, that's me being an atrocious pedant and I realise that had my suggestions been taken on board, the film might not have been quite so good.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Yes! God that annoyed me. Possibly it's trying to ram home the idea that he's a shitty nublet commander.


    Also, if puncturing coolant tanks is a problem, I can't see that "setting them on fire" is really that much better, but hey.

    That and the fact that reactors don't go all NUKEASPLODE anyway.

  22. #47
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    I have always preferred the first Alien film to any other in the series by a considerable margin. I've been mainly surrounded by people who seem to think that the second film was the best in the series.
    This exactly the same case for me. Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    I love that, it adds to the mystique. I'm sure you could extrapolate that the alien is a partially synthetic bio-weapon so perhaps it consumed part of the ship to grow, or something, but really, the fact that it is just so non-sensically alien
    You know, I never thought of it this way. I guess I've been tainted by the sequels to think of them as bugs that fit into some sort of understandable biological Earthlike system.

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Aliens clicked more for me, and fitted in perfectly with the action-craze that was so MASSIVE in the 80s. Plus being a HUGE Terminator 1 fan having Michael Biehn in it + the numerous other stars on the marine side just added to it all. The whole sending of marines into a infested colony and all that happened. Just love it. Inspired so many childhood dreams of being a space marine and the video games and mods that came out (early on Aliens Doom and much later AvP), it all just added to that for me.

    On a side note I to this day prefer Terminator 1 over 2 unlike the majority of people I guess for many of the reasons that some people prefer Alien 1 over Aliens. It's FAR more like a horror movie with action elements (just as Alien 1 though much less so in its case) with the Terminator being so damn menacing and seemingly invincible. And with bits like the club and police station scenes I just love that movie to death. Unlike Alien 1 however it gets into it nearly from the get go.

    Alien 1 on the other hand is quite slow moving (as was very common in horror movies released around that time period) and takes a fair while before things really get interesting. The acting is all top notch and once the Alien (in its fully developed form) shows up it all gets really good. Especially from its first proper kill onwards. Aliens in comparison grabs you from the get go whilst retaining much of the grimness of the first movie.

    One thing that always annoyed me about the franchise after Aliens was that, that was the only movie where the marines kicked ass. They might have all died in the end but they still kicked ass. The marines in ALL the other movies sucked majorly and lost to the Aliens with barely a shot fired. None of the weapons and vehicles in Aliens featured in any of the other movies also.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Iacon
    I'm happy to not try and declare either of first two films superior. Each is a top-notch example of a different genre. And, now I think about it, the different life cycles suit the respective genres better as well. Alien ramps up the body horror, Aliens gives us a Final Boss Fight.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    A movie in which a planet wide infestation occurs would be awesome, but we'll likely never get to see one of those.

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