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Thread: Dishonored 2

  1. #576
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2009
    Anyone playing this with the recent PC patch? Seems to have finally ironed out some of the remaining performance issues, might take this for another spin once I've polished of Prey.

  2. #577
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Leicester, UK
    Latest patch in the demo seems to be a lot better, and plays smoothly.

    Just need Denuvo to be removed and I'm in.

  3. #578
    Don't think I've seen this linked here, but here's an article about one of the levels Dan made:

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/2...rk_Mansion.php

  4. #579
    Well, this is kind of interesting. During my first Corvo run, I wanted to get low chaos, shadow and clean hands. I only managed to get low chaos, because one idiot in Adermire Institute got scared of me and fell off the cliff, which counted both as detection and death from my hands. (I realized this a couple of missions later). With Emily, I decided to fuck it and killed everyone standing in my way, while staying undetected. That was fun. Now I started the no powers run, and I realized I just have to get clean hands, so I don’t need to be super careful with detections, as long as no one gets hurt. While this is coincidental, it also seems to be most relaxing play style I’ve ever had in stealth games

  5. #580
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Unrelated to the above, I just saw the upcoming DLC (Death of the Outsider) costs 30 bucks, that's pretty pricey for an expansion. But I guess it all depends on how much content there is. I may actually wait for a review or two to see what it's all about before buying.

  6. #581
    I saw the DLC priced at EUR 18.99 in the online stores, but I'm not getting it on day one either. They had performance problems in main game, I want to see how it runs and I'll wait until they sort out such problems.

  7. #582
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: I can't find myself
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Unrelated to the above, I just saw the upcoming DLC (Death of the Outsider) costs 30 bucks, that's pretty pricey for an expansion. But I guess it all depends on how much content there is. I may actually wait for a review or two to see what it's all about before buying.
    It IS a standalone title. Not a DLC.

    I'd also guess it's going to have benefited from all the patches and optimizations of the original Dishonored 2. Not like they're going to make major engine changes for an expansion.

  8. #583
    If it ends up with about the same number of missions as Knife Of Dunwall/The Brigmore Witches combined then I think $30 is more than reasonable.

  9. #584
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I expect it will probably be about that size, but minus the level recycling.

  10. #585
    I'll be kinda disappointed if there isn't at least one recycled level somewhere, that seems to be a Dishonored trademark.

  11. #586
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2006
    Location: Germoney
    1) Clockwork Mansion atrium. 2) Royal Conservatory hall. Is it confirmed that these remain the two "rough spots" of the game, similar to the reactor room on Prey, because everything else I'm pretty happy with so far, in particular as I'm still running on entry level Sandy Bridge hardware from 2011 else paired with a GTX 1050 ti now, similar to a PS4 not built for 60+fps ultra gaming, but decent enough for anything currently at Full-HD (mostly 40-50 fps+, with only Karnaca market place dropping down to perhaps 35). Could still swap the CPU for an i7 3770k as well, but I am not sure I would get hugely better than the occasional drop below 30 fps in those two scenes without much better hardware. For some reason such rates at around 30 also feel a bit more sluggish than on other games. Also, when opening the door to the Conservatory Hall, Fraps initially showed a drop to 25 fps, but the same sequence would go up to 40 again when alt-tabbing out of the game to return. Additionally, on some spots I seem to get better frames when cranking up the shadow detail from medium to high, which is also weird.

    That said, don't let yourself put off by tech talk. The environment and mission design of this is from out of this world. It deserves accolades this industry doesn't have, as it's beyond a standard this industry develops for. It's like the two standout missions (Lady Boyle, Golden Cat) from Dishonored being cranked up to beyond eleven, adding even more opportunity for player agency, secrets, alternative pathways and then apparently populating an entire game with it. Also those blood flies are bloody nasty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    I'll be kinda disappointed if there isn't at least one recycled level somewhere, that seems to be a Dishonored trademark.
    Didn't they only "recycle" one area from the original game in "Knife Of Dunwall"? I still liked that level though, as it was playing at night-time, whereas the original had it during daylight. Dishonored oozes atmosphere at night time missions (Karnaca docks baked in sunlight and buckets of whale blood is also pretty neat though). If they're clever they developed the new missions around Void's remaining "issues". Addermire institute et all don't see any drops whatsoever, even on entry level chips (mostly 45-50fps plus). Anyway, I'm totally sold on the add-on as well. Whilst I agree with the sentiment that their titles don't push the boundaries as much as the "originals" used to, Arkane are now officially my favorite developer.
    Last edited by samIamsad; 9th Sep 2017 at 15:17.

  12. #587
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    There is 1 recycled level. You'll discover it a little later from where your up to.

  13. #588
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2006
    Location: Germoney
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    There is 1 recycled level. You'll discover it a little later from where your up to.
    I think I know which one it will be, would make sense to return there eventually. Now that Raph Colantonio is sadly leaving and Harvey's back to the US, can't they convince Doug Church to move to Europe so that he can lead the Lyon studio? What's he doing at Valve anyhow these days given how active Valve have become on the game development front? Bug fixing the Steam servers? Whatever he's up to there, that must be akin to a football club signing Messi so that he can do the dish washing in the club canteen, or a band signing Hendrix so he can hone his driving skills by driving the tour bus.

    Talking about pushing the envelope (and the engine), apparently there is a mission later on that has to render basically the geometry of two levels at once (saw some of it in the trailer, you probably know what I'm talking about). That'd probably a challenge for any current engine anywhere, like shoehorning stuff into game engines they aren't even meant to handle that well. In particular if you consider how all those supposedly "Next gen" graphic engines oft can't properly even handle something as "everyday" as a proper mirror (Unreal Tech 1 had this covered, naturally with the benefit of far lesser geometry to render back then). I'm looking forward to this whilst being a little afraid of it at the same time. From your experience, what's the most taxing part on the hardware? The two brief sequences I brought up which can drop things occasionally down to 30fps and slightly below on my rig seem to be cited everywhere.
    Last edited by samIamsad; 9th Sep 2017 at 17:36.

  14. #589
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by samIamsad View Post
    What's he doing at Valve anyhow these days given how active Valve have become on the game development front?
    VR, last I heard.

  15. #590
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: I can't find myself
    Doug quit Valve last year, and he's currently consulting with OtherSide on System Shock 3.

  16. #591
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I heard that he's consulting Otherside, but I haven't heard anything about him quitting Valve.

    In fact, as recently as the beginning of this month someone said he's still working there: https://twitter.com/ForgetAmnesia/st...28212949295106
    Last edited by Starker; 10th Sep 2017 at 02:14.

  17. #592
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2006
    Location: Germoney
    Hope he's fine either way. I too hope though that Raphael Colantonio will return one day too in one way or another. Similar to other guys, perhaps starting again from "smaller" projects. Sounds like he was burnt out a bit by the end of it.

    If there's one thing that's can be pretty cheese in Dishonored, this included, it's the combat though. In areas where you can get overwhelmed it's fine. Otherwise, it works on a basic level I guess. Okay, that's not fair, the mechanics / tools itself are fine. However the AI... You probably know that Dust District dilemma. I literally waltzed straight forward into the thick of things, got the head on a pike I needed in like three minutes. A head that was carefully and tensionally built up in prior missions already -- poof, there's it. And all I did was using choke points to lure opponents into narco mines, dodging a few bullets, running straight into packs of enemies and placing a couple mines / explosives, and watching the health meter along that thing. And that was on max difficulty, with every setting cranked up to the max, and I'm no FPS guru whatsoever. Upgraded narco mines zip a load of enemies all itself (sure, you're not forced to uprade). The same thing doing it the stealth way would have taken like fifty times the time. However, it's infinitely more fun and rewarding in so many ways. Naturally going to reload to do it the "proper" way. It's not as if I had "wasted" time on this.

    Reminds me of the Timsh estate mission in the D1 DLC. I literally sprinted through that level, just firing a few bullets. And the house was so easy to clear, like hiding under a staircase, placing mines and watching the guards run all in -- one of the few ways in which Dishonored can pose a challenge in combat is in areas where you are ridiculously outnumbered, you have run out of resources, plus a few guys with ranged weapon focus in on you. I don't know for whom this way of playing is balanced, or if it's supposed to be that way, but in a lot of areas it's pretty cheese imo. It oft doesn't feel right. It oft feels as if you're missing the point of the game (and indeed, to me, it is). It's not an "Arkane thing" though. Combat on Prey in particular early on on harder difficulties can be pretty though. And as was announced, there is places in this early on you better come back later -- I immensely enjoyed those early stages as I had to find creative ways around combat / or alternative solutions to get rid off foes as opposed to charging in head-first.
    Last edited by samIamsad; 10th Sep 2017 at 21:16.

  18. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by samIamsad View Post
    And all I did was using choke points to lure opponents into narco mines, dodging a few bullets, running straight into packs of enemies and placing a couple mines / explosives, and watching the health meter along that thing.
    I beat all of DH2 as Emily using only the sword/pistol and never crouching unless it was required to get through an opening. I cheated and restarted halfway through to get passive powers though (the ability to block projectiles is a life-saver against the witches).

  19. #594
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2006
    Location: Germoney
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    I beat all of DH2 as Emily using only the sword/pistol and never crouching unless it was required to get through an opening. I cheated and restarted halfway through to get passive powers though (the ability to block projectiles is a life-saver against the witches).
    Definitely sounds viable, in particular as if you're up close, enemies take one shot and they're down. In the DLC that's how I approached the first part of the Timsh estate, there's like half a level before getting to the multi-stages building you're supposed to infiltrate in whatever means you deam viable (a bit like a throwback to Life Of The Party, purely structurally). I don't think that'd be fun for me to play the entire game that way. It just doesn't seem that well balanced, whether you're meant to be a badass assassin or not. It's partly AI, as if you place explosives/mines at spots where you know they'll need to get through to follow you, they'll all pass through there and never react to their guys getting torn to pieces by shrapnel, etc. It's a bit like on Lemmings. In parts it's due to item placement and generally tools available. The explosive stuff is massively powerful, as are the mines, as they can easily dispatch multiple foes at once. Plus running into a pack of opponents and placing a mine straight into their feet is a viable "tactics". Stalker this is not. But then it isn't even Bioshock imo, though the tools and environment to use for killing sprees as such is a lot more interesting. Indeed, playing lethal and creative is fun. Like abusing that dumb waiter by making it not deliver chili cheese burgers upstairs, but something a tad more explosive.

    To be fair, not getting detected has always been the more challenging approach, and Harvey argued as such prior to release. On that front, imo they've delivered. It still impacts the stealthy way in a sense too though. If you're caught on Thief, you're like OH FUCK. If you're caught on Alien:Isolation, it's already too late likely. If the same happens on Dishonored, even going headfirst into the thick of things will likely see you coming out pretty fine. You're more likely to reload simply because you want to stay undetected. So the tension isn't quite the same. I've seen guys arguing stealth would be pointless in the Dishonored series. I wouldn't go that far. But it's still an interesting aspect. Speaking about AI, Alien Isolation's robots seemed to receive a lot of criticism. But whilst Creative Assembly aimed for a different experience with that game, they actually were able to properly encircle you, cut off escape paths, whereas Dishonored's combat AI is just closing the distances more or less.. which can be cheesed pretty much, just as an example. [If you factor in that those robots each took a whopping six head shots on harder difficulties to take down, that was some fantastic emergent moments of ingame tension right there].

    Still, great great great game this. I'd argued before someplace that this feels like text adventure games of old, or the modern take on what they are trying to convey. Back in the 80s a good parser was the best you could do to create the illusion that anything was possible. Even though it was just an illusion, a decent parser reacted to everything (even the more juvenile stuff you typed in, being a kiddo ). It's the same here. Reading articles where the main designers argue they encourage the Arkanes to think in (Non-combat) verbs, yes, verbs, is no surprise to me.
    Last edited by samIamsad; 11th Sep 2017 at 10:57.

  20. #595
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    The second last main mission was of particular fun playing as Corvo non lethal. Powers maxed for what I needed. All I'll say is that the roof of that place was filled with many "sleeping" guards and NPCs by the end of it. Knocked out the NPC's since they'd go alert mode if you got too close, so better to be safe than dead from guards being alerted.

    The clock-work robots were easy to take out once you knew how. Though sometimes they'd go bonkers and kill a few guards, thus ruining my zero kills run, requiring a reload. I took exception with the final boss. She had it coming, and with that guard captain at the start of the game. He too deserved to go.

    Playing with Stephen Russell's voice accompanying made the game feel very Thief-y. The closest we're likely to ever get to a proper new Thief game beyond the 3rd entry. Well I say proper, but throw in guns and robots and some advanced tech. Thief all the same though.

  21. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    and with that guard captain at the start of the game. He too deserved to go.
    His fate if you go non-lethal with him is so satisfying, though.

    While I'm thinking of it, Death Of The Outsider is coming out friday.

  22. #597
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: I can't find myself
    I heard that he's consulting Otherside, but I haven't heard anything about him quitting Valve.

    In fact, as recently as the beginning of this month someone said he's still working there: https://twitter.com/ForgetAmnesia/st...28212949295106
    I heard it directly from his mouth when he was visiting the company I work at last year. His LinkedIn is super cagey, but it does say he's in the Greater Los Angeles Area, which is not where Valve is.

  23. #598
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2006
    Location: Germoney
    Seems the first reviews for Death Of The Outsider are starting to trickle in. I've just placed my pre-order after having just finished the main campaign once (Emily, low chaos). There's a lot of smaller reactivity chains that you don't notice until late, and even then only upon exploring a bit off the beaten path rather than follow that magic "go here do that marker" you may see them (which you put off anyway as it has always annoyed the heck out of you) :P. Neat stuff. Speaking about that magic marker, this game's goals can actually be completed without it. F'r instance, I narco-mined quite a few of opponents in a place packet with them, and at the end, almost the entire map was laid to "sleep". However, I'd almost forgotten about the main target. Looking at paintings of it and comparing its appearance to all the bodies around I was able to identify it pretty quickly. So much more rewarding.

    There's a few interesting articles out there on that Crack In The Slab mission. No wonder it can bring even better hardware in some scenes to its knees... I mean games (Dishonored too) have stopped including proper "mirrors" ever since the scene complexity sky-rocketed from Unreal III era tech or thereabouts, and this is basically multiple places/planes rendered and represented to you at once. Whilst this "expansion" is officially touted as stand-alone, this is officially the second only ever "DLC" I've bought. The story DLC of the first one combined harkened back to the glory days of "proper" expansion packs. Even if this one won't be as lengthy, just a bit moar Dishonored 2 is going to be a pretty good thing to me. Plus Daud's cool.

    What isn't cool is that pretty much any online shop spoils some of Dishonored 2's best kept story secrets only fully revealed towards the end of the campaign. Not sure how I'm going to approach it. The DLC of D1 I approached with that mind-set, what happens, happens (rather than reloading on occasion due to, DUH, spotted). I think that's ideally where such open designs should shine... if fuck happens, it's not game over, it demands second to second improvisation on your part. For the same reason I didn't reload on Prey when I got one of the game's main supporting characters killed also. I was being dumb, I've got to deal with it (the game acknowledged that right until the very end, also very rewarding). That's something I'd love to be explored more in the future. Go Arkane.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-the-periphery
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_JKT2rHg50 heavy Crack In The Slab spoilers in both... I wasn't aware of that additional "plane" also!
    Last edited by samIamsad; 14th Sep 2017 at 17:43.

  24. #599
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    I doubt you're gonna see many (if any) reviews for Death of the Outsider until next week. Beth's review policy these days is 'review it when it's out', instead of providing pre-release copies to the press.

  25. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by samIamsad View Post
    Speaking about that magic marker, this game's goals can actually be completed without it.
    I've read that there was at least one objective in the first game that no one could do without the objective markers enabled, but I've done like 3 full playthroughs of the main game (and 2 through the Daud DLCs) and have never used them and don't recall having an issue.

    One thing that was neat about having a voiced protagonist in DH2 was the way your personality changed depending on how you were playing, particularly the little quips you say when examining objects in the world. I thought that was a nice touch.

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