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Thread: Dishonored 2

  1. #201
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    There's a Kotaku post here that sums it up: http://kotaku.com/5909105/stop-preor...o-games-please
    Demos: demos are gone, but we have substitutes. Refunds on PC are a thing. For consoles, risk can be minimized to $0-5 due to rentals, the pre-owned market, or borrowing from friends or the library. Not too bad.

    That said, I can relate to the frustration that developers are diverting resources to pre-order bonus content to the detriment of the game at large. But then again, the market will punish this activity in the long run because the games won't be very good or have much staying power.

  2. #202
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: on the socio path
    Preorders are valid because people want them. Any other argument doesn't matter. People. Want. Them.

    Why not bring up the damaging effect of Steam sales on the future value of games. Whatever. Won't go away.

    Next you'll tell people to stop streaming music. Artists make a pittance. It will affect the quality of future albums. Right. Nobody's going to stop.

    Keep yelling at the sky.

  3. #203
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    What do you mean by valid?

  4. #204
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    I'm going to backtrack just a tiny bit on my stance after reading that Kotaku article. There are certain games that I'm still going to buy, no questions asked, reviews be damned.

    But...

    I can see the argument of waiting until release day and not pre-ordering. The main issue being all the pre-order bonuses and exclusive content BS. That shit really has to go, it's just awful for the industry and even more so for players/fans.

    The last thing I want is publishers pulling existing content from a game and instead making it only available if you pre-order the game from Gamestop or Walmart or wherever the fuck. That just seems so very wrong.

  5. #205
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Interesting, relevant article:

    https://gamerant.com/watch-dogs-2-pre-order-519/

    So boo hoo, Ubi is crying because not enough people are buying the game sight unseen. Personally that seems kind of ridiculous - it's not like the name "Watch Dogs" carries some huge amount of clout that Deus Ex or Elder Scrolls or even Far Cry would.

    Also - talk about adventures in ridiculousness - Watch Dogs 2 can be ordered in one of six different editions. SIX. Sorry, is there anyone out there crazy enough about Watch Dogs to buy the $165 Collector's edition? I'm thinking not.

  6. #206
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    The $165 collector's edition also made my eyebrows raise. As you said, it's not like it's an established franchise with a big "collector" fandom. Arguably, the first game wasn't even that great, so why would people want to collect it? Oh, Ubisoft...

    As for the topic, I never pre-order but I think the creator-reputation argument for pre-ordering makes rational sense. I've checked out a book from the library because I liked the author's previous work, without knowing ANYTHING about it (didn't even read the back, don't like spoilers). More of a first-day purchase without a demo, but if you are going to do that anyway, then pre-ordering is the same rationale.

    The problem with pre-orders is they really serve no purpose. They often happen too late in development to provide the company with adequate funding; if you want to support Devs then support the Kickstarter. The only games that come out with pre-orders months before release are the ones that don't need the extra funding, like Watch Dogs 2. And with no shortage of digital copies, there is no benefit to "reserving" a copy.
    Last edited by Yakoob; 4th Nov 2016 at 21:26.

  7. #207
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakoob View Post
    The problem with pre-orders is they really serve no purpose. ... And with no shortage of digital copies, there is no benefit to "reserving" a copy.
    Well, there is pre-loading. That's a little something. Although pre-loading, review copies, and those "one day early" benefits all kind of make me feel like the opposite is happening: You're not getting it early. Everyone else is getting it late.

  8. #208
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    What are people's thoughts with respect to crowdfunding as preorders? From what I've read in comment threads on gaming sites, it seems that lots of people see crowdfunding pledges are preorders, but I never see it like that. For me, crowdfunding is much closer to patronage; someone credibly sells me on an idea, so I support them financially. Obviously I hope they'll succeed, but even if they don't, it's worth the idea being given a chance. (For the record, most of the things I've contributed to on Kickstarter have succeeded, and I've enjoyed some of the results a lot, from Wasteland 2 to Anomalisa; those things that didn't work out, such as Tangiers, I still think it was worth giving them the chance.)
    I think crowdfunding is quite different from preordering, although you could certainly treat it that way.

    * A preordered game is certain to come out while most crowdfunded projects would not happen otherwise.
    * Crowdfunding is making a bet that a game will be made, preordering is buying a game that is already (mostly) finished.
    * With crowdfunding, most of your money goes to the devs instead of the publishers.
    * With crowdfunding, you have a direct channel to the developers without a PR wall.

  9. #209
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    So you'd feel actively cheated if a one-man team whose project you'd pledged $10 to goes belly up because shit happens in their lives that they have little influence on?
    If it truly is beyond their control, then fine.

    In such a siuation, where the game absolutely cannot be finished, I'd still want the dev to release what they've made so far though.

  10. #210
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2008
    It's going to be protected by Denuvo DRM, so I'm guessing that, on top of not getting professional reviews until after release, the Steam reviews section is going to be a wasteland of 'do not recommend' on sheer, bloody-minded principle.

  11. #211
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Urgh, third-party DRM on top of Steam?

    Well, not pre-ordering it now. Win one for the anti-preorder team. With pre-orders, you won't know what DRM they slap onto their games at the last minute, or whether they even work well enough to let you play the game you've bought.

    I was hoping companies were finally learning that DRM is counter-productive?
    Without knowing the exact details of what this thing does, it's completely put me off buying the game (not like I was planning to actually play it on release day anyway.)

  12. #212
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    You do realize that most major games for a while have had that, right? Including DXMD

  13. #213
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Really? I see no mention of it on the Steam page.

  14. #214
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    Yeah, most recent Square Enix games have Denuvo. Lots of publishers have jumped onto it as a copy-protection solution because it's notoriously hard to crack. For the end user, it's sort of seamless -- until it can't communicate with the server at game launch and asks you to do a stupid crypto key copy paste from a website to verify you're not a filthy pirate.

  15. #215
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Still sounds like reason to at least not buy the game at launch in case it doesn't work right.

  16. #216
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    Denuvo doesn't break a game as such, and to its credit it has been seamless for the most part. It's an anti-tamper system that encrypts and decrypts game files on the fly with a crypto key; I'm not sure how often it needs to regenerate the key, but the process intermittently required server connectivity for Rise of the Tomb Raider and Mad Max, because I got the error message for those a couple of times. Hasn't happened since, but if that's a deal breaker, you'll want to stay clear. You'll almost certainly need to be connected to the internet for the first time you launch a game with it.

  17. #217
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Apparently it's already been used in three games that I've played and I never had any issues with, so I guess it's harmless enough.

    Still, extra DRM is always a red flag for me and makes me at least need to read up exactly what the thing does and if people have had issues with it before purchase.

  18. #218
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: on the socio path
    I was gonna say it affects cross-platform potentiality, but then I see DXMD is now out for SteamOS. Presumably they just removed the DRM for those users.

  19. #219
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakoob View Post
    The problem with pre-orders is they really serve no purpose.
    I was told by an SE employee that they are a means to ensure first week sales. Apparently no one bothers how well a game sells after two or three weeks and pre-orders guarantee an immediately high (well, hopefully) sales figure.

  20. #220
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Wouldn't they technically reduce first week sales? Since they're "week -x" sales? :P

    It's an interesting bit of circular logic. First week sales are usually the bulk of a big-budget game's sales. Therefore, executives make decisions about how well a game did after just a couple weeks. Therefore, only the first week matters. Therefore, offer a discount to get more people to pre-order! You might get less money, but if you get it at the right time, your sequel can go forward...

    I actually suspect that pre-orders increase revenue, because some portion of people who pre-order would've either missed the release date by accident (when was that coming out again?) or happenstance (too busy - new baby). Once they've missed the release date, maybe they'll buy it at full price later... Or maybe they won't buy it all (terrible reviews/friend's experiences - the most frequent criticism of pre-orders), or just buy it when it's discounted.

  21. #221
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I think a lot of opening week sales are listed as "first week plus pre-orders".

  22. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Wouldn't they technically reduce first week sales? Since they're "week -x" sales? :P

    It's an interesting bit of circular logic. First week sales are usually the bulk of a big-budget game's sales. Therefore, executives make decisions about how well a game did after just a couple weeks. Therefore, only the first week matters. Therefore, offer a discount to get more people to pre-order! You might get less money, but if you get it at the right time, your sequel can go forward...

    I actually suspect that pre-orders increase revenue, because some portion of people who pre-order would've either missed the release date by accident (when was that coming out again?) or happenstance (too busy - new baby). Once they've missed the release date, maybe they'll buy it at full price later... Or maybe they won't buy it all (terrible reviews/friend's experiences - the most frequent criticism of pre-orders), or just buy it when it's discounted.
    Technically. In reality the revenue matching principle means you get to recognize the sale for the period in which you deliver the product, hence it gets recognized under week 1 sales.

  23. #223
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    So, preorders aside, what's the TTLG consensus on this game? Are people planning on purchasing day one? Doesn't seem like there's a ton of hype, but I'm personally pretty excited for it. I plan on playing as Corvo and trying the "no powers" route on my first playthrough.

  24. #224
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2014
    It seems like a decent game. I'm sure those that liked the first are in for an even better one this time around. That said, I'm waiting for the bargain bin.
    Last edited by TannisRoot; 8th Nov 2016 at 11:17.

  25. #225
    Just picked it up at GMG and already received my code. Waiting for the preload now.

    I'm probably going to do a clean Corvo playthrough the first time (no powers other than blink) and then replay as Emily and just go nuts.

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