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Thread: Fms that won't work properly with New Dark - Summary of Issues in OP

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2011

    Fms that won't work properly with New Dark - Summary of Issues in OP

    I was recently playing a mission called thieves quarter. I got to a point in the mission where I had to take an object. The unfortunate thing is this object caused a crash. A quick look at recent threads confirmed that this is a bug caused by the new dark patch.
    I created this thread to find out what fan missions were broken by the new dark. Any help would be nice. I figure that new dark has been around long enough that a good amount of bugs and issues with older mission have been found.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Summary of solutions and other issues reported in this thread and other threads

    Note: Voodoo and others will not attempt to look for a solution for any problem if there is no save, if you have one please post it in this thread

    Thief FMs NewDark fixes repository http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145374

    Missions fixed with dmls, convist.osm or other solutions
    see repository for dmls and convict.osm files

    Amida
    Issues fixed
    1. can not unlock the final door with the correct key (NewDark issue)
    2. also none of the 'Kill the Bugbeast' objectives check off. Turns out AMIDA is a T1 mission not a TG mission and this bug is caused by the TG engine mis-reading T1 objectives
    Solution Install Voodoo's dml fix

    Bloodstone Prison
    In the temple the candle on the altar may not appear lit when playing with either NecroAge or HDmod installed
    Solution Play the mission without mods installed.

    Break out from Apocalypse Prison
    Mission does not end, trinket objective does not work on expert, fixed a bug with war not dying as it should, fixed a scroll and some more minor issues.
    Solution Install both miss file and dml fix by Unna Oertdottir found here
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2316992

    Burgomaster
    Newdark issue....Almost impossible to frob the Horn of Quintus
    Solution Install Voodoo's dml fix

    Business at Midnight
    The Objective 'Get out of the compound and back onto home turf' does not check off.
    Solution Install the .dml fix by Unna Oertdottir
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2317143

    Calendra's Cistern
    2 issues. After the cutscene between Calendra and Dillon, Calendra places her goblet on the table, sometimes this goblet disappears, also the conversation between Calendra & Brimstone does not work. Voodoo has supplied a dml fix for both of these issues, but are untested
    Solution To guarantee correct play you are advised to play the Newdark re-release from AntiMatter_16
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...endras+cistern

    Circle of Strain 1 T1 version
    various issues reported
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix,
    Note: You may also be advised to play either the T2 version or the Newdark re-release by AntiMatter_16 which contains all 3 missions in one campaign FM http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...rcle+of+strain

    Dread
    dark.cfg issue....blackjack / sword etc are all white.
    solution.... patch with latest TFix
    or see http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2247945

    Escape from Guilesatpeak
    Newdark issue
    Guard is too sensitive in the prison cell area and becomes alert to your presence even when you make no noise, thus failing the mission even before you get out of your cell when playing on expert only ('escape unnoticed' objective fails)
    Solution dml fix in repository
    Note: Only use miss30.mis contained in the file (other miss files are for other Shadow of Doubt missions)
    Note: The same miss30.mis also fixes the same issue in Tears of Blood

    Escape the Bear Pits
    Sword objective does not work
    Solution Install the dml fix by Unna Oertdottir found here
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2317725

    Fall of a Chook
    Objective 'Steal Farkus's body' does not work, 2 items of loot do not go into the main loot inventory, problem with no-kill objective. Problem with portcullis in sewers
    Solution Install dml fix by Unna Oertdottir found here
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2317392

    Hellerhouse
    This mission may not load correctly when playing via FMsel see posts 309 to 320
    Solution First try to play via Darkloader, if that fails look for MISSFLAG.str file in your FMsel/FM/hellerhouse/intrface folder and move it to FMsel/FM/hellerhouse/strings folder, if you can't find the MISSFLAG folder you can get one at Voodoo's repository.

    Information
    2 issues
    1. when you frob the crayman's head a secret door fails to open, this is a Newdark issue
    2. various objectives fail to check off during game play preventing you finishing the mission, this is due to a T1 mission/TG engine conflict that prevents the TG engine correctly reading T1 objectives
    Solution. Install both Voodoo's dml fix and oldconvict.osm file (both available in repository)
    Note: DO NOT place oldconvict.osm file in your main Thief folder as it will break the thief engine, only place it in your FMsel/FM/information folder.

    LaFrenier_Real Criminal Boss
    Regardless of which difficulty you select, when you start the game the mission defaults to normal difficulty, thus playing on easy or hard impossible
    Solution Install the dml fix by Unna Oertdottir found here
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2316991
    Warning. Playing on hard is frighteningly difficult as although it is possible to kill LaFrenier it's due more to luck than skill, so you may wish to only play on normal if you want an easier life.

    Mages Area
    Various issues occur in all 3 versions of this mission (1.0v, 1.0e & 1.1v)
    1. in the 'Path of Enlightenment' the trap door does not work correctly
    2. in the 'Word Puzzle' area the doors do not open once you are on the other side of puzzle
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix

    Makiko
    Problems with killing the Aunt
    Solution Install dml fix by Unna Oertdottir found here
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2317701

    Mansion of Chaos
    You can not enter the water area as you die instantly when mantling out of the water
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix

    MineShock
    Mission crashes at the start of the mission
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix

    Mr. J's Ring
    Objectives do not work, some loot can not be collected nor can the blackjack
    Solution Install Unna Oertdottir's dml fix found here
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2317764

    Noble Death
    various minor bugs
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix

    Oblivion
    You can not enter trial room 3 due to wall that should not be there (you can mantle up & wriggle in with 1.22, only to come across another Newdark bug shortly afterwards in the Shrine of the builder area), couple of objectives do not work and final showdown does not happen
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix allowing you to play this mission through to the end for the very first time.

    Off to Milhorn Manor
    Newdark issue
    The switch that's supposed to let you grab 'Safety Key B' doesn't work
    solution.......play using 2.1 version The switch is still unfrobbable but the small door in front of the key has been removed in this version so it doesn't matter.

    Payback
    Newdark issue
    can't jump onto a rope as it is too short
    solution.....re-patch with latest TFix
    or add to you cam_ext.cfg file, add this line:
    force_correct_rope_lengths 1

    Pirate's Downfall
    Newdark issue?
    game crashes due to incorrect pixel size on a book
    solution....http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2174703

    Prodigal Corpse, The
    Mission does not finish on hard or expert, issue with 'do not kill the rat' objective
    Solution Install dml fix by Unna Oertdottir found here
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2317007

    Ranstall Keep
    Scrunched up zombie in cell area
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix

    Ruins of Originia
    incorrect text string causes you to be unable to read a poster in the starting area
    solution.....http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2254723

    Shadow of Doubt Campaign
    3 Newdark issues, 1 lighting issue
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix

    Note: Extract the 7z file into a temporary folder then paste the contents of that extracted folder into your FMsel/Fm/shadowofdoubt folder, as if you try to extract directly all you will do is place the folder containing the dml fixes in the FMsel/Fm/shadowofdoubt folder
    1. part 1 .....Walking the Edge....when exiting the embassy via the door an objective checks off incorrectly
    solution....leave the embassy via the sewer hatch only or dml fix below
    2. part 2....Tears of Blood , see 'Escape from Guilesatpeak'...as FM / same issue
    3. part 5....Nightcrawler......portcullis does not open when you frob a lockbox with the letter
    4. part 1 Walking the Edge......weird looking beam at the very beginning of mission......lighting issue
    Note: These issues also occur in the individual FMs, to fix the individual missions you need to open the dml fix and place the appropriate dml in the FMsel folder
    Walking the Edge.....miss29.mis
    Tears of Blood.........miss30.mis
    Nightcrawler...........miss33.mis


    Strife campaign
    In the mission 'Borderlines' there is a lockbox that does not unlock
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix.

    Thief2X:
    New Mantle issue
    Try to mantle from the ice blocks. There is a pool at the start of mission 3 'The city sleeps'.
    Solution....Turn off New Mantle

    Tears of Blood
    see 'Escape from Guilesatpeak'...as same issue
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix
    Note: Only use dml miss30.mis (other miss files are for other Shadow of Doubt missions)

    The Gem
    T1/TG engine conflict prevents an objective not working when you enter the manor
    Solution you need to install oldconvict.osm (available in repository listed as convict!)in your FMsel/Fms/gem folder
    Note: DO NOT place oldconvict.osm file in your main Thief folder as it will break the thief engine, only place it in your FMsel/FM/gem folder.

    The Item
    Loot Objective unchecks when you pick up the Legendary Sword
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix

    The Treasury
    Newdark issue...In the caves area, you need to get across a beam before you get crushed by a moving platfrom, in Newdark however the platform only goes half way up to the ceiling allowing you to climb up onto it
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix

    Thieves Quarters
    Newdark issue
    game crashes to desktop when you try to pick up the 'Holy Hammer' off the altar
    solution.....this problem seems to have repaired itself with Newdark 1.22 or higher
    see http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145327

    Trial by Night
    Newdark 1.21a issue
    crash to desktop when you climb into the attic in the first building playing via TFix 1.21a only
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix or upgrade your Tfix to 1.22 or higher

    Through the looking Glass
    Unclimbable ladder see post
    solution Turn off New mantle.

    Torben the Traitor
    Newdark issue
    You can't jump onto rope as it is too short
    solution......re-patch with latest TFix
    or add to you cam_ext.cfg file, add this line:
    force_correct_rope_lengths 1

    Trickster Returns, The
    mission does not finish when playing on expert (impossible) caused by a conflict between T1 game & TG engine in which the TG engine sometimes incorrectly reads T1 objectives
    Solution Install oldconvict.osm file (listed in repository as convict!) into your FMsel/FM/ttreturn12 folder
    Note: DO NOT place oldconvict.osm file in your main Thief folder as it will break the thief engine, only place it in your FMsel/FM/ttreturn12 folder.

    Uninvited Guests
    corrupted file issue....when trying to load this mission both FMsel and darkloader fail to extract the zip
    solution.....you need to create your own UGUEST file and extract it manually see posts
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2251701
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2251744

    Wanted: Dead or Alive
    Newdark issue
    key does not open door to prison area
    Solution install Voodoo's dml fix

    Woodkey Resthouse
    2 issues, unfrobbable key and 1 piece of loot with no value
    Solution Install dml fix by Unna Oertdottir found here
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2317161

    Other issues reported for which there are no current solutions

    Bane II - Cult of the Damned.....Newdark issue
    bottom of coffin does not open after having frobbed another sarcophagus just around the corner
    quicksave https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4L...ew?usp=sharing

    Dead of Winter....Newdark issue
    crashes when mechanist gives you a key
    quicksave needed

    Garretts Younger years......Newdark issue?
    it would appear Garrett has put on a bit of weight in recent years
    quicksave needed

    Horns of Canzo.....Newdark issue
    the staff (Sceptre of Krall) doesn't work, you're supposed to 'use' the staff in front of the portal but it no longer works
    save needed

    Horns of Canzo part 1: A Long Way Up.....New Mantle issue
    Go east and into the park, wade under the bridge, dive to your left and swim to the end (N E). Surface and try to mantle.
    Solution...turn off New Mantle

    Korrigans.......Newdark issue
    door should be blown away by explosion after fight
    save needed

    Last Lighthouse Keeper
    Door does not open....save posted

    Lord Binclair
    A couple of the objectives are set up incorrectly but you can still finish the mission

    Lorgan's Web
    2 Newdark issues
    Mission does not finish when playing on hard
    Hammerite does not burst through apartment door
    save needed

    Moth to a Flame
    Newdark issue
    couple of windows don't open causing you to miss a large part of the mission (obj 526)
    save needed

    Saints & Thieves
    Objective problem
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2294652

    The Varyx Obelisk
    possible Newdark issue / possible bug due to randomization
    in expert mode having found the black sword the objective to find the sword failed to check off which means when you place the last Talisman in its ward holder 2 new objectives fail to occur, thus the final key does not materialize meaning you can not finish the mission on expert
    quicksave https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7U...ew?usp=sharing

    Way of the Sword
    Newdark issue
    can't re-frob the rosary once you have blessed it in the water
    save needed
    Last edited by nickie; 18th Jun 2015 at 03:43. Reason: Amended summary

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2013
    I've started from the very first FM and have played up to A Smuggler's Request so far. So that's everything from June 1999 to early January 2001, and so far I've encountered 3 missions that are flat out broken because of New Dark:

    Oblivion by Wrichards (recently discussed in this thread)
    Thieves Quarter as mentioned by the OP
    Escape from Guilesatpeak (Mission 1 of the Journey campaign) also recently discussed, you can try Ricebug's fix

    I suppose technically Escape from Guilesatpeak is playable with NewDark, but not on Expert. There is a ghosting objective and a twitchy NPC ruins it right as the mission starts.

    Also there is another mission, called Information, that I had problems with but I am pretty sure that it is a Thief Gold issue and not a NewDark issue.
    Last edited by yxlplig; 15th Apr 2014 at 06:50.

  3. #3
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    My, what a pissy, petulantly phrased thread title. You people are aware that NewDark is the Thief 2 engine, and if any T1 FMs happen to run under it that's just a bonus, yes?

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada
    It's incredibly easy to have more than one install of TG or T2. Why not just have a separate install without the new dark upgrade and use it to play the older missions? That's what I do and then you don't have to worry about them not working properly or being "broken".

  5. #5
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    @ZB - I didn't read it that way at all. What's the harm in keeping track for posterity's sake?

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Between dreams and shadows...
    There's no harm in and of itself, knowing which FMs don't work is indeed useful. However they were not 'broken' by NewDark: they're doing things that only ever worked because they relied on deficiencies and arguably broken behaviour in the old engine. A more accurate title would be "FMs that need fixing to work in NewDark".

  7. #7
    Moderator
    Registered: Jul 2008
    I've changed the title. That should satisfy the more pedantic among you.

    @ ZB: That may be confusing given that TFix incorporates New Dark for T1/G.

  8. #8
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by The Watcher View Post
    There's no harm in and of itself, knowing which FMs don't work is indeed useful. However they were not 'broken' by NewDark: they're doing things that only ever worked because they relied on deficiencies and arguably broken behaviour in the old engine.
    Yes and no. A moot point now since the thread title has been made less inflammatory, but there's two classes of incompatibility here:
    - T1 FMs, which are lucky to work at all since NewDark is really the T2 engine with what appears to be some extra backward compatibility bolted onto it
    - T2 FMs, which as you say sometimes rely on borderline or weird behavior, like AIs breathing through their navels

    Then there's the new mantle code, which IMHO I consider a caveat emptor deal.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: On parole
    There are a number of T1/TG fms that don't work properly with NewDark, but you can still play and finish them, such as CoS 1 in which all the doors are pitch black, and others that various weapons such as the sword and the blackjack appear as being white, but these issues do not reduce the playability factor of them game......do they count in this thread

  10. #10
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    it certainly won't hurt to post all the issues in one topic. most of that stuff is easily solvable.

  11. #11
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2011

    I apologize for the title. I didn't realize it would be taken negatively. I agree with the change put it place. It is a better worded title.

    @ fortuni Any examples would be good. I would thank you for any help you provide.

    @ nightwalker I'm a little bit bit iffy with moving my install away from steam. :/ I'll definitely try though.

    Overall, I love the new dark patch. It's an excellent addition to a great game.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2013
    I wouldn't apologize for the title. The vast, vast majority of FMs work with New Dark, the ones that do not are now literally broken. If someone want's to take that as a personal insult rather than a statement of impartial fact that's their problem. It's not a slight of anyone's work.

    Anyway, you should follow Nightwalker's advice, I do the same thing now when I run into a problem. And actually it's one of the reasons I prefer Steam for Thief. Rename your "thief_gold" directory to something else (backupthief_gold) and then have Steam verify game files. It will download a brand new copy. Install TFix 1.10 (last version before New Dark). There now you have an extra copy for these situations.
    Last edited by nickie; 16th Apr 2014 at 02:29. Reason: unnecessary quote

  13. #13
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by yxlplig View Post
    . . . Rename your "thief_gold" directory to something else (backupthief_gold) and then have Steam verify game files. It will download a brand new copy. Install TFix 1.10 (last version before New Dark). There now you have an extra copy for these situations.
    Thanks, I didn't know you could do that. I'll definately make use of this feature. Would you recommend making a copy of thief 2?

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2013
    I haven't had any reason to so far. Every single T2 FM I've played with New Dark has worked. Although I've only played about 90 for T2. Still, to answer your question, I'd say no not really.

  15. #15
    Moderator
    Registered: Jul 2008
    yxlplig's experience so far notwithstanding, I'd say that if you have enough hard drive space, go ahead and do the same thing for T2. Why not? Then you're set. Many authors are updating their older T2 missions for New Dark but many authors of older missions are no longer around and it's unlikely their missions will ever be updated.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    I don't remember any problems with T2 missions. T1 fm's have been mostly fine for me, but now I'm replaying Lorgan's Web, and there's a scripted event at the beginning that's bugged (the guards and hammerite are supposed to force their way into Garrett's apartment; now they yell, but after they just stand there in front of the door)

  17. #17
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by yxlplig View Post
    I wouldn't apologize for the title. The vast, vast majority of FMs work with New Dark, the ones that do not are now literally broken.
    No they aren't "literally" broken, drama queen. They're incompatible. They still work fine under the Thief 1 engine.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Aaaand, I just found a much more serious bug. The secret passage in the Hammer library no longer opens; frobbing the book does nothing
    So this could mean a lot of unplayable FM's...

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    They're incompatible. They still work fine under the Thief 1 engine.
    You'll have to forgive me, I'm not used to talking to such sensitive people. When I said that they literally break when using New Dark I meant the same thing you said here. Please whenever I say anything barbaric just go ahead and translate it into something less offensive. I promise I'm not trying to be rude here.

  20. #20
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    Aaaand, I just found a much more serious bug. The secret passage in the Hammer library no longer opens; frobbing the book does nothing
    So this could mean a lot of unplayable FM's...
    That's unfortunate to hear. Does that mean that book triggers don't work? or just that specific mission's triggers?

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    I'll have to keep looking, but it's not a good sign. If crucial doors can't be opened, the mission becomes unplayable

  22. #22
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    Aaaand, I just found a much more serious bug. The secret passage in the Hammer library no longer opens; frobbing the book does nothing
    So this could mean a lot of unplayable FM's...
    well, the book switch in OM Assassins works fine, so the switch in the FM is probably set up in some strange/unexpected/incompatible way.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2003
    Location: Nampa, Idaho
    I'm probably asking to get flamed here, but here goes...

    The issue with broken FMs (in particular, those with unobtainable loot) was discussed HERE. Some players would like these FMs fixed, and so I offered it up to the other mission artists. While some agreed that it might be OK to do, the majority was worried about violating copyright issues, as if we were discussing violating the nation's armaments treaty.

    As soon as I finish my current WIP, I'm thinking of going ahead and doing it anyway. Now that NewDark has made more of these precious gems unplayable, I'll look to adding them to the pile. The effort will be to fix what's broken via drop-in replacements, without violating the artist's intent.

  24. #24
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    most, if not all of the mentioned problems should be dml-fixable. there is no better way than a dml fix if you don't want to touch the original work because of copyright concerns.


    btw; white weapons would suggest not having ObjTextures16 and TerrTextures16 in dark.cfg, this is not a (new)Dark problem, it means the game install is just not set up properly (to run FMs). black doors would suggest using old (pre-NewDark) saves, and that is not recommended unless there is no other option.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    Location: France, Paris
    Recently, I had problem with 2 FM running with NewDark :
    - T2 : Smugglers Request : extinct torches continue generating light
    - T1 : The Thieves Quarter : the game is crashing when picking up a holy hammer

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