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Thread: Help a noob.

  1. #51
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Have you thought about getting a Steam controller? It takes a bit to get used to, but it's a lot like using a trackball once you get the feel for it.
    No. I am old-school. I believe software should adjust to me. I shouldn't adjust to the limitation of software.

    When I started playing games, I found keyboard and mouse quite uncomfortable. Within a year I found out about trackball+joystick. Especially since I got a programmable joystick I can make my setup work for (almost) all games. I was just wondering if the DS games will still recognize input from the mouse once a controller is plugged in. If that is the case, I'm pretty sure I can make it work.

    I am afraid that getting used to a gamepad will take so long that I will have either finished the game, or abandoned it in disgust, before I adjusted.

  2. #52
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    No. I am old-school. I believe software should adjust to me. I shouldn't adjust to the limitation of software.

    When I started playing games, I found keyboard and mouse quite uncomfortable. Within a year I found out about trackball+joystick. Especially since I got a programmable joystick I can make my setup work for (almost) all games. I was just wondering if the DS games will still recognize input from the mouse once a controller is plugged in. If that is the case, I'm pretty sure I can make it work.

    I am afraid that getting used to a gamepad will take so long that I will have either finished the game, or abandoned it in disgust, before I adjusted.
    That's not oldschool, that's being stuck in your ways.

    Think of it like this: you like the precision of a trackball, but you also like the full analog input of a joystick over a keyboard. A joystick and mouse is one way to approach it. The other way is the Steam Controller, which acts far more like a gamepad with a trackball than a dual-analog stick setup. Once I got past the initial learning curve, I found it to be a best of both worlds alternative.

    Though to answer your question, I'm going to say maybe. I'll give it a test when I get home tonight using my mouse in one hand, 360 pad in the other.

  3. #53
    El Shagmeister
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Under your fingernails.

    What Renz said. And in the really old school days you got used to what the developers gave you, not what we wanted (at least initially). It can't really hurt for you to give it an honest try, eh? C'mon... <3

    Renz - Aw, he ain't that bad*. Me'n one of my nephews soloed Ol'Fumey with him buffed up from the get go with his ultra great sword ('cuz we're masochists apparently...). He was fun!


    Sir Alone was also an awesome fight.



    *Though he did whup our asses for a while.

  4. #54
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDuck View Post
    Renz - Aw, he ain't that bad*. Me'n one of my nephews soloed Ol'Fumey with him buffed up from the get go with his ultra great sword ('cuz we're masochists apparently...). He was fun!
    I did the exact same thing, because I figured he'd be easier if he stuck to a consistent attack pattern. I beat him solo, wearing Velstadt's helm, and sporting the Espada Ropera on NG+. Took me about...damn, I bet at least 30 tries, the fucker.

    The one thing I hated about the otherwise excellent expansion packs, was that every single boss had an absolute obscene amount HP. They'd be hard with the usual amount you'd see from bosses in the base game. But when you have to spend 8-10 minutes not fucking up?

    ...that's more stressful than fun.

    Speaking of which, I need to get around to beating Scholar of the First Sin one of these days. I got a good ways into it, but forgot to back up my save when I reformatted my computer. That kinda deflated my excitement a bit.

    edit: Also, Alonne was a whore. Not as much of a whore as the Fume Knight, but a whore nonetheless.

  5. #55
    Moderator
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Australia
    I didn't find Sir Alonne that bad but getting to him was a real bitch. From memory I think I beat him on my first or second try but died loads of times trying to get there, made worse by all the invasions.
    Some of his movements remind me of this far tougher boss, the Pthumerian Descendant, from one of the Chalice Dungeons in Bloodborne. There's an even tougher version called the Pthumerian Elder that I haven't been able to defeat yet. One of my favourite bosses in the game, though I'm probably getting too OTT now.

  6. #56
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    To answer my own question: yes, when you are using a gamepad for movement, the mouse still keeps doing mouselook. I just tested it. This is in Dark Souls, Prepare to Die Edition (the first DS game for PC, I believe). I haven't tried the 2nd game.

    PS. After trying to configure everything, I found out that DSMfix (the mouse fix mod) actually disables all controllers ..... The game did something right, and then the mod-makers broke it.

    So now I have some work to do:
    Configure my joystick + the x360ce tool to emulate a gamepad for movement (Done, but switched back to simulating WASD. Thanks, DSMfix !).
    Install the mousefix mod to fix mouse jitter. (Done. Nice that you can re-assign mouse-buttons. Broke x360ce).
    Pray to god that mousefix allows me to do inverted Y-axis. (It does!)
    Install other dsfix mod to fix the game. (Done. Works).
    Tweak sensitivities of movement and mouselook. (Walk/run via WASD is working. Mouse feels slow).
    See if there are any graphical enhancements available specifically for DS (e.g. texture packs). (Done some: Fonts. DSFix).
    See if there are any generic graphical enhancements available (4xSGSSAA, SweetFX, etc). (Too scared to mess with the game).
    Try to make the game work in 21:9 (I bought a 2560x1080 monitor recently). (Done. Works. Only menus are stretched. But the game looks awesome).
    See if the game can run at 100+ Hz. See if my videocard can do 100+ fps. (Answer: dsfix recommends not going over 60 fps. My old gtx680 seems capable enough).
    If so, see if I can make the game work with ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur). (Maybe 60fps and 120Hz doing ULMB. Later).

    Confirm that running at 60fps doesn't make the game harder (altered physics).
    Figure out how to prevent getting invaded. (Maybe just stay hollow forever).

    And then maybe figure out how to use CheatEngine to make the game easier. Get myself triple health, or infinite health or something. I wanna see the DS world, see the story. I don't give a fuck about challenge in video-games. And because this is a single player game, it's not cheating. (Playing without CE now. Game seems easy so far. People probably exaggerated).

    Looks like you need a masters degree in computer science, just to start playing this game.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 19th Mar 2016 at 14:53.

  7. #57
    Moderator
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Australia
    No you don't need a MS degree. Just install DS fix for ds1, not for ds2. Get a decent controller and off you go. I'll elecrocute you if you try to use ch3atengine

  8. #58
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by twisty View Post
    No you don't need a MS degree.
    It's no problem. I kinda have that. (Degrees in my country, my days, had different names). I already have most of the stuff working.

    Just install DS fix for ds1, not for ds2.
    Already did that.
    The problem now is that DSMFix seems to disable all controllers. FFS. The game did it right, but the mod spoils it. :\
    One solution would be to drop x360ce, and configure my joystick with WASD. It might not be such a big problem. I noticed that the walking speed of an analogue controller just boils down to "stand still, walk slowly, run". I can simulate that with WASD and the run key. I'll just have a little less control over the direction in which I'm running.

    Get a decent controller and off you go.
    No.

    I'll elecrocute you if you try to use ch3atengine
    Good luck trying to stop me.

    A quick google pointed me towards this blog-post.
    http://www.jinchoung.com/2014/03/dar...ats-why-i.html
    I think I will agree with him.
    It's my computer, my software (I bought it), my hardware, my time, my enjoyment. As long as I'm not bothering anyone else, I can do whatever the fuck I want. And again: I won't play coop, and I will refuse to be invaded. So who cares what I do ?
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 19th Mar 2016 at 14:55.

  9. #59
    Moderator
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Australia
    The electrocution comment was an attempt (admittedly weak) at a joke in case that didn't come across.

  10. #60
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Nope, it didn't sorry.
    I guess I expect Dark Souls fans to be deadly serious about their game.

    I played a few hours now. The game looks nice. The Depth of Field effects are totally overdone. But it gives a nice effect that everything seems far away. And it makes the world seem larger. While I still expect to be able to go to all those places I see in the distance.

    No crashes or other technical problems. Movement and controls are ok, I'm using the target-lock a bit. Too bad the UI is so bad. It makes things like upgrading your stats, picking a weapon, upgrading a weapon, etc no fun. (It's no fun if I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing). I guess I'll have to spend a little time reading some wiki pages. At least this time I've started a warrior, so I can use a shield if necessary.

    I won't have a lot of time to play games over the next few months. But I expect I might enjoy this game. Just a few hours in the weekends.

  11. #61
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    I guess I expect Dark Souls fans to be deadly serious about their game.
    As you damn well should!

    Get Gud.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Eh, it's not that much different from playing through DOOM with "idkfa" on. If someone wants to play the game that way and even manages to have fun with it, more power to them.

    Not to mention that the supposed difficulty of Dark Souls is vastly overhyped anyway. I mean, it's probably very difficult compared to games like Assassin's Creed, but there are only a few places in the game that I would actually regard as a challenge and most of them are completely optional.
    Last edited by Starker; 20th Mar 2016 at 04:44.

  13. #63
    True, it's more about the perceived vs actual difficulty, but you need to get there yourself. Although if you don't care about challenge in games, why choose Dark Souls? This is even more masochistic than a DS newcomer is supposed to be If you want to know the story, here's someone explaining it better than you'll ever do by yourself: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...PwHsZJlXB2CzCz

    [Edit, read the first page]

    If you're having a decent amount of control with that joystick/trackball setup, that's okay, assuming you have immediate access to something like 13 buttons total. It seems like a peculiar combo though, hopefully you have a layout that's quick to get used to / master, since the game will require that from you.
    Last edited by Judith; 20th Mar 2016 at 07:18.

  14. #64
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Thanks for the link. But I will wait reading about lore until I'm much further in the game. Usually I only read about lore after I finished a game.

    If you're having a decent amount of control with that joystick/trackball setup, that's okay, assuming you have immediate access to something like 13 buttons total. It seems like a peculiar combo though, hopefully you have a layout that's quick to get used to / master, since the game will require that from you.
    My joystick has 20 buttons. I use one as a shift-key (the pinky-button), so I have 2x19=38 abilities directly available.

    It does not only have a configuration-tool, where you can assign keyboard-presses to joystick-buttons. It also has its own full-blown programming language. If you want, you can program the stick to do stuff with 25ms granularity (or even better, if you really want to). I've been using this particular joystick for over 10 years now. For RPGs, MMOs, FPSs and any game you can think of. It might take me an hour, or a few hours, to tweak everything to my liking. But I usually get a nice setup for myself.
    I use it in combination with a Logitech Marble Mouse in my left hand.


    I sortof remember that in DS2, your character makes all kinds of extra movement during combat. And there were more "combo attacks" where you had to press multiple keys at the same time. It made me feel I wasn't in control of my own character in DS2. It seems DS1 is simpler here. I like simplicity in game controls.

    E.g. right now I have attack on the joystick-trigger-button, strong attack is trigger+shift, block is my thumb mouse-button, dodge is my pinky mouse-button. I wonder if I should assign parry to an easy button (e.g. index-finger button on the joystick). Or whether I should just skip parrying, and just block with my shield. Mmmm, now that I think of it, maybe I should try and see if parrying while 2-handing works.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 20th Mar 2016 at 12:04.

  15. #65
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    So I played a few nights now.

    Took me a few hours to get a hang of the controls. Not bad. One of the things I disliked about Dark Souls 2 was the fact that when you were fighting, your character moved around quite a bit. Almost uncontrollably. That got me killed a lot, and made me dislike the game. Now in Dark Souls 1, I feel I am in control over my character. Being quick in enabling and disabling the enemy-lock seems vital.

    Took me a few hours to program my joystick. How to configure the keybinds. Works nice now. I have the kick and the plunge-attack programmed under a single keybind. Deadzone, walk and run are working nicely.

    This game is supposed to be hard. But I think there are a few ways to make it easier.
    1) Out-level the enemies. Because I spent so much time messing around in the Undead Burg, and because I managed to almost always recover my souls, I leveled up quite a bit. That helped a lot, I imagine. I think this way of making the game easier is natural for noobs like myself, as we're almost forced to do this. Unless you keep losing your gained souls, you will level up quite a bit.

    2) Out-gear the enemies. I think this is how veterans do it on their 2nd or more play-through. They take the master-key. And they run around collecting a bunch of good gear. Before they start playing the real game. There is a lot of stuff you can pick up without fighting any bosses (or even trash). I got a Halberd+9 now and a Balder Side Sword+6. Took me a lot of effort to get those. But other players seems to just go pick up the Drake sword asap.

    3) Summon NPCs. I killed the Gargoyles by myself. Took me a bunch of tries. But I finally managed. I was probably 10-15 levels higher than the normal minimum requirement. But I didn't summon any NPCs. Because I didn't want to go human. When I fought the Gaping Dragon, I changed my mind. I summoned the 2 NPCs, and killed the boss on my 3rd try. In fact, during the 3rd try I realized the dragon isn't even doing most of its attacks against an enemy, it just charges into thin air. Now that I know this, I could maybe have done it without the NPCs. In any case, NPCs make the boss fights a lot easier. A lot. Moonlight Butterfly went down second try, because of the NPC I summoned when I went back (first try I walked in, without knowing what would happen. Sucks for a melee character).

    4) Summon human players. I haven't done that yet. And I don't plan to. But I guess if you are lucky, and get a good player to help you, you can just stand there while your friend kills the boss. In MMOs this is called "carrying".

    5) Exploit game-mechanics. Exploit the environment. I killed the Capra Demon by running up the stairs, killing the dogs first after the Demon fell off. Then keep exploiting the fact that the demon can't reach you. Taurus Demon got easy once I learned that you can/should do a few plunge-attacks. Without the plunge attacks, with my low level and bad gear, it would have taken a long time to kill him. With plunge attacks, three strikes and he was dead. Felt a little gimmicky. I saw a video of someone fighting Sif. He made Sif back up into the rocks around the area. Sif got stuck. Stand under Sif: easy kill. I can't repeat that myself though, so I'm sure that player knew a bit more than I do.

    All in all, it's a fun game. I wanted to play DS because of the athmosphere that I saw in screenshots and movies. But it's even a fun game.

    I'm kinda stuck now. Asylum Demon, Taurus Demon, Capra Demon, Gargoyles, Gaping Dragon, Hydra, Moonlight Butterfly and Havel are all dead. I got Sif and Quelaag left. I tried Sif a few times. I seem to learn how to position him better, or be lucky, or try a few dozens of times. Quelaag I tried once. Got one-shot by Fire AoE. It doesn't seem I have access to any decent fire-resist gear yet (it's behind Quelaag. Duh). Although Quelaag seems a chaotic fight, she might be easier than Sif.

    Or I could go into New Londo Ruins. I haven't explored Vally of the Drakes yet. But fuck those drakes. I killed a few. But across the bridge there are 3 or 4 waiting close by. No desire to go there yet. I believe I have to learn to deal with the Ghosts in New Londo Ruins if I wanna go there. Do the Ghosts not respawn after you drained the first area ? Or do they keep coming back during the whole game ?

    Mmmm, maybe Quelaag first then.
    Edit: that was easier than expected. Qualaag down first attempt. (Not counting when I walked in by mistake a few days ago). I guess levels do mean something in this game after all.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 31st Mar 2016 at 14:51.

  16. #66
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    So I played a few nights now.

    Took me a few hours to get a hang of the controls. Not bad. One of the things I disliked about Dark Souls 2 was the fact that when you were fighting, your character moved around quite a bit. Almost uncontrollably. That got me killed a lot, and made me dislike the game. Now in Dark Souls 1, I feel I am in control over my character. Being quick in enabling and disabling the enemy-lock seems vital.
    ...which is strange to me, because I'm somewhat of the opposite opinion. DS2 feels more fluid and exacting to me. DS1 comes off as the more spastic of the two when I jump to it directly from its sequel.

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Finland
    Something that really annoyed me the last time I played a bit of Dark Souls 1 after having gotten used to Dark Souls 2 was the limited rolling while locked on to an enemy (you can only roll straight to the left or right or straight at/away from the enemy).

    When playing Demon's Souls/Dark Souls 1 I'd gotten used to locking off for any more fancy rolling maneuvers, like dodge rolling at an angle to get behind an enemy for a backstab, but in Dark Souls 2 it's so much easier since you don't have to.

  18. #68
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Yesterday I did Sen's Fortress. Didn't like it. Getting to the roof just isn't fun. So I cheated a bit. I kept copying my savefiles so I could put them back if I died. I guess I did that about 4-5 times. And it probably took me on average 3-4 times per segment to get to the next spot. So it would have taken me 4 ^^ 5 = 512 attempts to get through. No thanks. And then when I made it to the roof, I couldn't fine the bonfire. So I looked it up on YouTube. After that, the Fortress was actually fun again.

    Anor Londo seemed awesome. Until I ran into those two archers who kept firing Tomahawk Cruise Missiles at me. So I looked it up on YouTube (again). It turns out most people just run past the first mobs and hope/make them fall of the ledges. And then shoot poison arrows at the archers from a safe distance. It seems this is what all the "veterans" do. Run past mobs. Use the master key. Pick up items before they are supposed to. Make enemies kill themselves, in stead of fighting them. Exploit glitches. Make creative use of the circumstances. Etc, etc.

    Sometimes Dark Souls reminds me of World of Warcraft. WoW is actually 2 games into 1. The first game is the leveling. Super easy. Easier than any other game you ever played. But the 2nd part of WoW is the endgame. And that can get very hard. And very repetitive. Hard bosses, which you can kill only once a week. Requiring more than 1 player to achieve a goal. Good preparation (gear, strategy). Looking up strategy on the web before seriously attempting yourself. Respawning trash. Etc. But in WoW it is an absolute no-no to make creative use of circumstances. You have to fight every hard mob and every boss the way they were supposed to. Or else you risk a ban. Dark Souls is the opposite. (Probably because From never gave a fuck).

    Anyway, I think I'm gonna explore the The Great Hollow and Ash Lake first. And then return to Anor Londo.

    Or I could try to get the Very Large Ember. I understand you need to drain New Londo Ruins first. Which you only can do after finishing Anor Londo ? Mmmm, I could really use the upgrade for my spear from +10 to +13. (Got the mats for that). I see videos on YT by veterans who are starting Anor Londo with a +14 weapon. I guess they did New Londo Ruins first, and just simply killed Ingmar. Bah. I don't wanna do that. There is enough of a shortage of humans in Dark Souls that I'm not gonna go kill them without a good reason.

    I heard a rumor about a way to reach the very large ember without draining the New Londo Ruins. It involves Fall Control and Quitout. Maybe I should check that out. Even though it seems a little fishy, I think pulling it off requires more skill than killing Ingward ...

  19. #69
    You have to fight every hard mob and every boss the way they were supposed to. Or else you risk a ban. Dark Souls is the opposite. (Probably because From never gave a fuck).
    Exactly the opposite. It's because From values player freedom, you can beat bosses any way you want, using strategy, risk vs reward, minor exploits, or clever builds. You can beat everyone with your fists, naked, if you want to. Some builds seem to work better than others (i.e. I got the impression the faith-based and/or heavy melee characters are easier to play), but that still leaves room for experimentation.

  20. #70
    El Shagmeister
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Under your fingernails.

    Sen's Fortress was actually one of my favorite parts of the game, but I will say that the placement of some of those snakemen that could throw lightning was eeeebil!

    Still fun.

  21. #71
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    WEEEEEE!


  22. #72
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Fought my way to Ornstein and Smough's room. Opened the front-gate of the castle. Went back to the Asylum and beat the Stray Demon. (He seemed impossible. Done 10+ tries and couldn't even get him half health. Then tried the naked approach, with just my Furysword. Killed him the first try). Then I decided to go into the New Anor Ruins, even before finishing Anor Londo. Killed Imgard, upgraded my flask to +3. Upgraded my halberd to +15. My black leather set is +6 with a +8 chest. I am lvl69, 24 vitality, 40 endurance, 20 strength and 29 dexterity or something like that. Staying under 25% encumberance at all times (without Havel's ring).

    Now there's nothing left to do but go fight Ornstein and Smough. With selected gear (black leather thief set, ring, Gargoyle helmet and Eagle Shield) I got about 239 lightning resistance. I wonder if I should use my +5 Furysword or my +15 halberd. I prefer the range of the Halberd, but I read that O&S are more vulnerable to fire damage. Anyway, this weekend I'm gonna try.

    I wonder if there are still people playing DS1. I plan to try O&S solo first. But maybe I'll need help. When I read the soap-stone messages on the floor everywhere, it seems that all of those are "fake" messages, generated by From (or Steam). They are all "need humanity" and "imminent despair" and such. Nothing written by players. Either that system doesn't work anymore, or everybody is playing DS2.

    And yes, the controls are good now. I don't think joystick+trackball is a handicap. I'm rather happy with my setup.

  23. #73
    There are no computer-generated messages, except for the tutorial. Message system uses pre-defined words and phrases. You can't just write anything, but it does its job.

  24. #74
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    There are no computer-generated messages, except for the tutorial. Message system uses pre-defined words and phrases. You can't just write anything, but it does its job.
    Thanks, good to know that.
    And in that case, there must still be a lot of people playing.

    So on Wednesday I walked into Ornstein and Smough. Unprepared. And solo. I was killed twice rather quickly. Today I came back. I had the lightning resistance ring this time. And I summoned Solaire of Astora. Completely different fight. They died at my first try. A little bit of a disappointment. Tough, but not as tough as I was afraid they would be. I guess I did the proper RPG thing, and relied on my stats, in stead of my "mad skillz".
    I had made a copy of my save-file, before entering the Cathedral. So I did 2 more tries, trying to kill Smough first and Ornstein last. That was a bit tougher. The 2nd attempt I killed Smough, Solaire died when Ornstein was at 75%, and I died when Ornstein was at 50%. Stupid mistake, I got caught in his buttslam, while not at full health. I suspect I could beat them Ornstein last, but I might need a dozen more tries. Not gonna bother with that. I'm going to continue exploring. Still an awesome game.

    Edit: Fuck. It turns out I got to save the world. I guess it is my destiny . I never like that in a video-game. I rather be a nameless grunt and run around and explore the world on my own.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 9th Apr 2016 at 14:49.

  25. #75
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Edit: Fuck. It turns out I got to save the world. I guess it is my destiny . I never like that in a video-game. I rather be a nameless grunt and run around and explore the world on my own.
    Well, that's what they want you to think. They could be lying to you.

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