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Thread: Divinity: Original Sin 2

  1. #51
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Are you talking about the fight on the Lady Vengeance, with Dallis, Malady, and co. ambushing you at sea? As far as I know, the only people who can permanently die are the two potential party members you don't take along to the fight.

    But speaking of awesome fights, there's one in the Blackpits that's just absolutely insane in both the good and bad sense. Basically you're in a giant oil field, oil which very obviously burns when put to flame, and enemies start popping up after about a round into the fight that spread even more oil everywhere, shortly before another round of baddies show up that are both on fire, and naturally immune to it, spreading it about wherever they move The inevitable ensues, turning a good half of that section of the map, not just the immediate surroundings, into one giant raging inferno if you haven't done so yourself already via some sloppy applications of pyromancy. We're not talking about a scripted event here, it's just something bound to happen sooner or later.

    It's insane in a good way because, well, that's awesome. The ground, buildings, people, everything is ON FIRE! The whole thing is one crazy, barely survivable scenario of escalating consequences.

    It's insane in a bad way because a goodly chunk of the enemies in that fight aren't immune to fire, and the AI will go to great lengths to try to avoid traversing any ground that'll damage it. This leads to enemies freezing in place for a good 30-45 seconds while they try to analyze every potential move they can make to minimize damage while still making their way towards you as quickly as possible. It's like you can hear your computer trying to reason its way through a never ending series of contradictory if/then/else routines before finally saying fuck it, and taking the most direct path.

    ...now imagine you have 8 enemies in a row having to make those same choices. It gets real old, real fast.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 19th Sep 2017 at 21:24.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    It's hard to imagine what an AI could be doing that would make a modern computer chug for half a minute, unless it was trying to analyze possibility trees like a chess algorithm.

  3. #53
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I was exaggerating a bit. It didn't chug my computer. Any framerate issues I had in that scene probably had more to do with everything being on fire (and some of that fire was cursed) than the AI going rampant.

    But they would sit there for half a minute or more doing absolutely nothing at all, and I do think it was due to the AI trying to find the best answer to a bad situation it created. The burning blobs would move the moment their turn came up. They didn't have anything to worry about. Fire heals them. Ain't no thang. But the blobs that spewed oil all over the place, and were vulnerable to fire? They would sit there forever before making a move. It's like they knew that if they went anywhere near the flames, they'd light themselves up, so they just sat there for awhile, like they were weighing their options before committing to a move.

    I dunno how something could manage to be rather impressive, and so damn annoying all at the same time, but that did it!

  4. #54
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Yeah, that's the fight I was on about Renz. In my first attempt Malady died, and when they went down the mysterious hooded figure teleported to them and used an ability called "Source Vampirism" on their corpse.

    I also suspect that if you somehow manage to out-level Dallis and her mysterious companion, you could take them down too (maybe by killing absolutely everybody in Fort Joy?). As it stands, I was only able to remove Dallis' shields and do some minor damage before Malady completed her spell.

    I did get my main character on to the boat with them on my second attempt (gotta love Polymorph and the "Spread Your Wings" skill), but he promptly got utterly smashed by Dallis. On my last attempt, I'd actually managed to teleport Dallis on to our boat and into the middle of the firestorm raging amidships, but I couldn't focus everyone on taking her down due to having to protect Malady.

  5. #55
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    It took me three tries to make it through that fight. each time I let Malady die, the hooded figure would go all void-like, and would end the game for me. No one survived his attacks.

    I imagine that no matter how high you level up for that fight, you probably won't be able to beat Dallis, and definitely won't be able to kill the Hooded Figure. It'd change way too much of the plot were you able to do so.

  6. #56
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Might be worth cheating next time round to see what happens

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I haven't played it yet, but I got this:

  8. #58
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Saw this on GOG initially - RPGs like this always seem appealing to me but I have a terrible record of actually getting anywhere with them. I didn't get far with Neverwinter Nights, more recently I've failed to get far with either of the Dragon Age games. I think it's partly due to time constraints or I'm not that patient with the combat.

    I'm having a second attempt at Pillars of Eternity, but I'm a bit of a wuss at battles. I've put it on the lowest difficulty and while it's not trivial you can sit back a watch a party of 5 win without much intervention. I did this because the "easy" difficulty had me dying repeatedly to a couple of spiders. I thought I must have missed something fundamental.

    Which difficulty level are you guys playing on? It sounds like some of the battles are a bit tough, I'm trying to figure out whether it's too intense for me or not, or everyone is just more hardcore than I am (probably everyone else playing RPGs). I wondered if strictly turn based combat in a party RPG would work better for me - the comparison with pillars of eternity is that for me your characters get in a bit of a clump and it's hard to see who is fighting what. Might be a side effect of the pre-rendered isometric format.

    Can the scene be rotated in this game? I've kept wanting to do that in Pillars.

  9. #59
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    To be honest, I always thought Pillars would have worked better and been more engaging as a turn-based game, for the same reason you weren't that taken with the combat: it has a tendency to devolve into a higgle-piggledy scrum. And yeah, I found the difficulty to be all over the shop in Pillars, with the prevalence of skills that wrested control away from the player late in the game completely putting me off.

    This is more like XCOM, and positioning and cover make a real difference.

    As for the camera, it's fully rotatable horizontally and has a reasonable level of zoom, although personally I could use a bit more and it would be nice to have control over the Y-axis too.

  10. #60
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Admittedly I could have just looked up a YouTube video, but videos don't tell you what something is like to play, and are obviously spoilery. I jumped about to find a section of combat and it looks like the rotate/zoom is ok. I'm also attracted by the voice acting accents being English. I guess that's just because I'm English but fantasy settings work better for me if at least some of the accents are English, or Scottish. Must be because of Tolkein rather than anything rational, because with fantasy a character could have any accent you like...

  11. #61
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    I was stuck in the Fort Joy holding cells for some time as the key that opens the door to the upper floor had been hidden by a broken table top during the fight with the Magisters. I think this was unlucky - had to look through various walkthroughs to know that the key was supposed to be there...

  12. #62
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    I had a great bit of classic Divinity game-play today.
    I abandioned my first save last weekend for one with a group made up of origin characters. I've got Sebille as a Rogue/Polymorph, Ifan as a Ranger, Fane as a Rogue/Necromancer/Summoner and The Red Prince as a dedicated Warrior with a 2-hander.
    When I got to Driftwood, a Magister recognised Ifan, and a fight kicked off that involved absolutely everyone in the town square, so I re-loaded. I realised that Driftwood was going to be a pain as long as I had Ifan in the party. Sure, I had Fane's Mask of the Shapeshifter at this point, but only Fane,,, wait, could other party members use it too?!
    Turns out, they can!
    Ifan's wandering around Driftwood as a dwarf, completely anonymous!


    Love that the game's systems are robust enough to support that kind of lateral thinking

  13. #63
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    I feel I'm doing something very wrong here, because I'm playing on "explorer" and I can't see how the battles I'm getting into are even possible to win with my party at this level.

    I've only just got out of Fort Joy and I couldn't possibly beat the Void Salamanders or the undead near that injured magister...

  14. #64
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    There's sort of an unspoken sequence to doing things. If you're finding fights too hard, check the levels of the enemies, then come back when you're a level below, equal to them, or higher. The other thing is that possibly the most important civil skill is probably the easiest to pass over: Lucky Charm. While Thievery is pretty invaluable, Lucky Charm, when at a high level, gives you great drops every 6 or so containers.

    And the major thing to consider in combat is armour. Before attacking, check to see which armour stat is lower on your target, then attack with skills that do damage to that type of armour. That way, you start damaging their hitpoints earlier, and once that armour's gone, you can also use crowd-control skills that are otherwise blocked by that armour.

    There's also a MAJOR combo that's worth learning on your rogues:
    Once you've destroyed an enemy's Physical armour, use Rupture Tendons followed by Chicken Claw. Rupture Tendons damages the enemy when they move, and Chicken Claw turns them into a chicken, at which point the only thing they CAN do is move. Most enemies will walk themselves to death with this combo.

  15. #65
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    I think I may have missed picking up some useful gear like a bedroll as well. I guess this is enough for tonight, but I may end up starting again a third time and conisdering getting defense against all the fire attacks - I lose a lot to burning.

    I need rupture tendons and chicken claw to do that of course. It seems with the game you have to find out what you should be doing and go through again to do it properly.

  16. #66
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Rangers are another great class to consider. They start out okay when you're in Fort Joy, doing a decent amount of damage, with a few interesting mix of abilities. But when you reach the 2nd act, you get a spell called Tactical Retreat that allows you to instantly warp your ranger anywhere on the battlefield that's within their field of view. A ranger with a good bow, 5-6 points in Huntsman, and tactically retreated on top of a tall platform will absolutely murder anything below them.

    Also, if you're going with a tank style warrior, forego the temptation to dump points in dual wield, and go full on sword and board style. Shields not only add a metric fuckton to your physical defense, but you get a skill called Bouncing Shield fairly early in the game that does OBSCENE amounts of damage, especially later in the game.

  17. #67
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Thanks for the info, I'll try again. Whatever I'd done if felt like I'd broken the intended progression somehow, missing a load of items and XP. On the easiest difficulty I wouldn't expect to be just scraping through the essential fights and being destroyed in the fights on the side like Kniles the Flenser, which would have been impossible.

    While I was playing I found the only origin character that was doing much physical damage was Sebille, using backstab and dual wielding daggers. The other issue is that I was lacking a load of armour that the enemies had - are there more quests in Fort Joy yielding items helping with armour?

    Try Beast as a ranger, or is the Red prince easier? Lohse seems a bit weak as her basic attacks don't do much given the stuff she starts with.Ifan with a crossbow seemed ok, but I didn't have enough armour for him

  18. #68
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    I'm reading some tips now as I've often found myself missing things in game systems and giving up. Reading this one I think my problem was as simple as this:

    5. Don't skip side quests. The game offers hundreds of quests and rewards for some of them aren't proportionate to amount of time dedicated to them, however, you should always try to complete side quests. You can't fight with enemies infinitely because there is a specific number of them and a lot of experience comes from those quests - if you skip them you can quickly lead to a situation in which your team becomes too weak for you to continue playing. Descriptions of all quests can be found in the later part of this guide.
    The game obviously isn't designed for you to go straight through the main quest, but nothing stops you going ahead because you aren't at a high enough level. Skyrim had a few level caps on quests to make sure you didn't get stuck, in fact I think it was a very forgiving RPG (many complained about the reduced complexity). In this case I got stuck at an unfortunate point where you can't return for extra XP because the game doesn't allow you to easily stroll back into the previous area.

    So my advice for any RPG initiate (or at least someone like me who hasn't played them enough) is to read the tips before getting into the Frustration Zone. Also don't start a game like this when you're ill...

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    With great freedom comes the freedom to make the game much harder for yourself.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    If a typical player needs tips from an external guide to understand basic systems, the developers have failed at game design. No excuses.

  21. #71
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    I could have used the in game tutorial tips pointing out the bedroll. In a way I'm not sure why you need an object to rest. In Pillars you got "camping supplies", but it's not the most interesting thing to do, buying an arbitrary object to rest for a bit.

    I have been spending a few more hours on it today, and it's still not striking me as an easy game on the lowest difficulty. It is not so bad now I've managed to find a couple of extra skills and slightly better armour. It also seems like I need more skills to counter status effects.

    Also, it isn't possible to sell junk to merchants for extra gold? At least not in FJ

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    There is a tip telling you to use a bedroll for rest, I got it on the ship at the start.
    Also, you can sell junk to merchants, just make sure you get them to give you something in exchange (since by default it'll give them the items for free if you don't also put some of their gold on the table.)

  23. #73
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Though it is a good idea to throw the occasional free thing to your favorite merchant, since it'll improve their reputation with you, lowering prices.

  24. #74
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Yeah, when I find a useful merchant, the first thing I do is change to the character with highest Barter then gift them some cash. At my current stage in the game, this means something like 1,200g to get a 100 reputation with them, but with high barter, you quickly recoup that initial investment. Especially when you consider that my thief is robbing them blind while the barterer keeps them occupied.

    One of the complaints that's doing the rounds over on the game's official forums is regarding number bloat. I didn't realise what they were on about until I got halfway through my current chapter, but it gets so bad, you spend more time shopping than you do adventuring. To that end, I've installed a mod to remove number bloat. And as I saw there was a version with number scaling completely removed, I thought I'd give that a check. And it works really well, definitely making gear last longer and making uniques actually become relevant and potentially last the entire game.

    Saying that though, I think it may have made combat significantly easier, so there's probably still some work to be done on the mod.
    But it also proves something I've thought might be the case for a LONG time now; RPG systems don't necessarily need hit point and armour numbers to increase every level to remain engaging. A wider variety of choices is much more important than ridiculous power level scaling. This handily makes certain things make sense where in more traditional systems they don't, such as a kobold at level 20 being able to wipe out a party several levels below it, that can in turn wipe out an otherwise identical kobold several levels below that of the party.

    It's something I think they honestly should have done in Witcher 3; it would have made the experience much more consistent.

  25. #75
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Well, if all that happens is increasing numbers you might as well be playing with a spreadsheet.

    I haven't got to the stage where that might be annoying. I'll have to look at mods. This is my third attempt and I've only just got the hang of picking up enough stuff to keep up with the enemies. It seems like you have to learn the best quests to do in which order to come out with a good balance in the early stage.

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