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Thread: Making Thief 1 harder?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2014
    Location: Dunwall

    Making Thief 1 harder?

    Im currently replaying Thief gold but as I played it before it isnt the big challenge it once was. I have seen a difficulty mod but I have been told it doesnt work. So are there any ways to make Thief more challenging and Im not tallking about playstyles

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Open the missions in Dromed, and change all the AI's awareness and aggressiveness to ultra sensitive (imagine all your AI with the skills of Haunts or assassins). You can also add more AI here and there, and remove healing potions, equipment, etc.
    If I'm not mistaken, you can also change their speed. I remember playing the Ultimate Difficulty mod, and the Zombies were sped up considerably, which made them extremely dangerous. The mod no longer works, because it wasn't configured for Newdark, so you'd have to revert back to the old Ddfix Thief to use it.
    Last edited by Azaran; 16th Dec 2015 at 11:32.

  3. #3
    Try switching off your monitor and play a mission using sound only. Oh and no saving. That should give you a challenge!

  4. #4
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    If the changes originally made for the Ultimate Difficulty Mod were documented somewhere, it wouldn't take long to make a NewDark-compatible version, as it's just some changes to dark.gam I believe.

  5. #5
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Help a brother out - why would a mod consisting of just a .gam file not work with New Dark?

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2015
    Very easy to do. Ironman every level till the end, allowing only one save at the start of each level.

    Also it would be nice to get the Ultimate Difficulty Mod running with NewDark, and I think a good first step would be just opening the gamesys with no level loaded in the editor to check the various intended changes to the AI, sounds and such.

    Yeah I wonder Brethren. If it's a gam file, it should just be a matter of dropping the mod folder into MODS and then editing the cam_mod.ini to activate it.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Oh right, I forgot, I thought the mod was the modified Exe file

  8. #8
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Well, no, it's just a .gam file. And dark.gam no less. It should just work. Just like any FM that's been released with it's own custom gamesys in the past. Nothing should need to be activated or changed or modified. I guess that's what I'm not understanding.

  9. #9
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    a gam mod will not be compatible with TFix, and that seems to be what everyone is using nowadays for some reason. anyway, if someone provides me with a full list of gamesys changes, I can dml implement them, creating an all-around-compatible difficulty mod.

  10. #10
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    Brethren, it may not work because this is T1/G we're talking about, I don't know. NewDark happens to work with T1 but it's really the T2 version of the engine, so perhaps it can't handle the T1/G mod gamesys. Or maybe it's an incorrect assumption that it doesn't work. Has anyone checked recently? And made sure you're using the T1/G version of the mod's dark.gam and not T2?
    Death's Cold Embrace - Info and screenshots

  11. #11
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    You know, related to the topic at hand, I wonder if these old difficulty commands that work with T2 will now work on a Tfixed/New Dark T1. I'm guessing they will.

    (1) Create a backup of USER.cfg file
    (2) Insert 'cheats_active' on a new line
    (3) Then enter the following on a new line to activate the cheats:

    "lockcheat" Almost every lock is open
    "nokillgoalcheat" You can kill people regardless if it violates the mission
    "FailOnSee" Fail Mission if enemy sees you
    "FailOnKill" Fail Mission if you kill an enemy
    "FailOnKO" Fail Mission if you knock an enemy out
    Not really in a good spot at the moment to try it out, but I will tonight.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2014
    Location: Dunwall
    Quote Originally Posted by bangersnmash View Post
    Try switching off your monitor and play a mission using sound only. Oh and no saving. That should give you a challenge!
    Well that would atleast make for some interesting experience

    Concerning iron man style I have done that with some missions before (RTTHC, Thieves guild, the maw) and it makes missions much more intense (I think playing the Thieves guild with Ironman style is a must if you want enjoyment from that level).On the other hand not every level is suited for that style of play, Escape! would be even more annoying (believe me I tried it) and some missions like Assasins dont work all that well too.

    Btw it would be great if the difficulty mod would work again :/

  13. #13
    What I said earlier was made in jest but then it got me thinking. Considering you know a level very well I wonder if it is possible to make it through purely by audio? We all know Baffords pretty well after all.

  14. #14
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    it doesn't work.
    it does - if your T1/TG is manually updated with NewDark, just replace the gamesys and you are running. this will probably break FMs. you can try to use it with a TFixed install as well, rename the difficulty gamesys to tfix.gam and drop it into the USERMODS folder. some things will break (candles, for example), and everything that has been fixed in the TFix gamesys will be unfixed, but the game will mostly work, and the difficulty will be increased.

    the only sane way of making this compatible with the new stuff is to convert it to dml, trivial if you know what needs to be modified - as long as a dromeder familiar with how the difficulty mod works provides a list of properties and their (new) values, I can convert it into dml in about 15 minutes.

  15. #15
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    Yes exactly, as I said
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    If the changes originally made for the Ultimate Difficulty Mod were documented somewhere, it wouldn't take long to make a NewDark-compatible version, as it's just some changes to dark.gam I believe.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Academy City

    Ultimate Difficulty Mod diffs against TG 1.37 and T2 1.18 gamesys

    Voodoo or Yandros, if you have the inclination to gin up a DML apiece for Northon’s respective Ultimately Difficulty Mods for TG and T2, here’s an archive containing diff dumps of

    • a freshly installed TG 1.37 dark.gam versus UDM 1 (37 insertions, 31 deletions)
    • a patched T2 1.18 dark.gam versus UDM 2 (28 insertions, 24 deletions)

    I’ve highlighted all changes (both insertions and deletions) in blue.

    These diffs were done using Word, so they might not be as granular as you need. (I have, however, included the original dumps for TG, T2, UDM1, and UDM2 in the archive along with the Word compares in case you have a better way of running a diff between them.) I haven’t looked in detail at the differences (although I have glanced over them), but they seem to be relatively straightforward? It’s been 13 years since I last fiddled with a gamesys, though.

    Let me know if this isn’t quite what you need—I used to always only play with the UDM, and it would be good to get its alterations back together with NewDark.

    If you can make this possible, then you have my everlasting thanks.
    Last edited by MisakaMikoto; 3rd Jul 2016 at 02:53.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Academy City
    Does anybody know how to do this?

    I can try, but I shudder to imagine the trial and error it would take.

  18. #18
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    Sorry I missed your previous post last year. I know nothing about making or using DML's so I'm not the right person for that task.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Academy City
    No problem. I didn’t want to nag.

    I’ll hunt up Voodoo and ask him, then.

  20. #20
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    very quick check shows that this won't be trivial (new archetypes required).

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Academy City
    Ah, okay—thanks for checking. Anyway, you saved me from trying to make this my first DML project . . .

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