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Thread: Rise of the Tomb Raider

  1. #1
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand

    Rise of the Tomb Raider

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/391220/
    Jan 29th is the release date according to Steam. I'm not surprised that they want to get this PC version ASAP since Xbox versions only sold ~1 million.


  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Location: Sevastapol Station
    On the fence. I want to play it but with the Canadian dollar the way it is, it sits at $80 which is FAR too much for me. This whole year will probably be a wait for prices to go down. (or the dollar to rise, which won't happen)

    I still feel that TR-eboot was basically Far Cry 3, with the leveling and "base clearing" and focus on combat. What reviews I've read for Xbox don't show that this one has changed much. I'm on the fence, but playing it on PC is the way to go for me.

  3. #3
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Try here.

    I have used this site 3 or more times and never been disappointed.

  4. #4
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    I'm not surprised that they want to get this PC version ASAP since Xbox versions only sold ~1 million.
    If you read that article though, they make it sound like selling "well over 1 million copies" was a good thing. Doesn't sound great to me, especially after they were disappointed with the 4 million or so that the first Tomb Raider reboot sold initially. Will it sell more on PC? Probably not. Maybe on the PS4, since it has more consoles out there overall.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    "...mass-murdering hundreds of men to obtain an ancient artefact."

    That's my problem right there.
    My biggest gripe with Tomb Raider (2013) was the excessive focus on combat at the expense of platforming and puzzling, and how the mass-murder sat directly at odds with the story.

    From this review and from the Zero Punctuation one last year, it sounds like that hasn't changed and has maybe even become more extreme.

    I'll most likely get it anyway, but I wish they'd chosen to focus more on the adventuring aspects.

  6. #6
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Tomb Raider 2013 is what the UnSharted games should've been.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: cesspool
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Tomb Raider 2013 is what the UnSharted games should've been.
    IMO, it's a good attempt, I liked it (and even bought Def. Ed. despite I already have it on PS3) , but still not quite the level of Uncharted.

  8. #8
    Moderator
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Hong Kong
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    From this review and from the Zero Punctuation one last year, it sounds like that hasn't changed and has maybe even become more extreme. I'll most likely get it anyway, but I wish they'd chosen to focus more on the adventuring aspects.
    That was my main problem with TR2013 as well. While I enjoyed the game overall, such as the inclusion of additional climbing mechanics, great atmosphere and level design, the frequent combat was a real chore and was at odds with why I have stuck with the series since the release of the original.

  9. #9
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Tomb Raider 2013 is what the UnSharted games should've been.
    Exactly the same but with less interesting characters and story?

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Yeah... I also very much prefer Uncharted to the Tomb Raider reboot. The latter lacked personality, something that Naughty Dog's games have in spades IMO. Nathan Drake is definitely among the mass murderers I'd go for a drink with.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    The Tomb Raider reboot is quite probably the most obviously soulless, committee-designed game I've ever played. There was no personality in it anywhere. It was just bland copy-paste of other games' systems.

    Uncharted may be loud, dumb and packed with cliches, but it knows what it is and it has fun with it. In trying to compete with Uncharted, the new Tomb Raider reduced itself to a pale imitator. Suppose it's too much to ask for them to ever make a game that plays to the strengths of the original Tomb Raider, i.e. less generic shit combat, and more elaborate environmental puzzles in atmospheric abandoned locations.

  12. #12
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    The Tomb Raider reboot is quite probably the most obviously soulless, committee-designed game I've ever played. There was no personality in it anywhere. It was just bland copy-paste of other games' systems.
    Actually, it sounds like you're talking about Thief 4 right there.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    I'm not surprised that they want to get this PC version ASAP since Xbox versions only sold ~1 million.
    They launched on the same day as Fallout 4 and were publicly reassuring themselves that they weren't going after the "same demographic."

    I liked the previous one, I don't play a lot of these so the frantic, theatrical action was a nice change of pace for me. I might be game for this one, but I'm in no particular hurry.

  14. #14
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    Suppose it's too much to ask for them to ever make a game that plays to the strengths of the original Tomb Raider, i.e. less generic shit combat, and more elaborate environmental puzzles in atmospheric abandoned locations.
    From what I've heard Rise actually focuses more on the raiding of tombs than it's predecessor did.

    And, come on, how can you say that the combat was "shit"? The combat was the best part of the game, and the best the series has had so far! No, the precence of more complex and fun combat systems isn't the problem. Absence of puzzles, a good narrative, and more complex platforming mechanics are the problem.

    btw here's a very good recent Game Maker's Toolkit video that talks about the movement in the TR games:


    edit: turns out I had a lot more to say on this subject that I expected.

    Obviously the different gameplay systems have to work well together, and I can see why things like "grab" have been cut out. While you're in a shootout you'll want to move around and change locations, and the last thing you'll want on your mind while getting shot at is remembering to hold down the grab button. But other things, like needing to build up momentum before jumping a wide gap, seem to have been excised for no good reason. And the FUCKING LEDGE CLIMBING. (I'm gonna rant about this for a moment.) You know, I was ok with it in early 3D games like the first few Tomb Raiders and Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, because it was novel at the time, but that mechanic has long since overstayed it's welcome. There's no challenge to it! Every modern 3D platformer where you get to a ledge-climbing section, you just know you're in for a boring-ass part of the game.

    edit2: finally, if someone gave me the keys to the franchise:

    THE TOMB RAIDER GAME I'D MAKE

    Lara has heard legends of a treasure hidden in a mountain and sets out in search of it. The main portion of the gameplay would revolve around climbing and spelunking, using gameplay systems of similar complexity as Vertigo. (anyone still with me on this?) Torches and food are a limited resource, but can be fully restocked at certain checkpoints where you find the bodies of earlier explorers who did not survive the harsh conditions and ancient traps of the mountain. You'd have a gun in your backpack, but it's uncertain if you'd ever need to use it. Nevertheless in the dead of night when you hear strange sounds coming from further into the mountain you'd feel safer, knowing you had the gun.
    Last edited by henke; 8th Jan 2016 at 02:48.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    I should clarify - I don't mean the combat mechanics are shit - it's all functional enough, it's just boring because it's the same generic third-person cover shooting from a thousand other games, but made worse because it's shoehorned into a game where the focus should be on quiet exploration and awe-inspiring puzzles.

    I wholeheartedly support your Tomb Raider idea. Maybe you could make it if you call it Crypt Explorer starring Laura Cruft.

  16. #16
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    Exactly the same but with less interesting characters and story?
    Tomb Raider 2013 presents the player with a value for money game featuring a world with more non-linear exploration given the mission hubs, metrovania-esque gear gating and more in-depth gameplay thanks to pseudo-RPG mechanics. UnSharted is a 100% linear fest with zero replay value that's over in ~8-10 hours. Every fucking playthrough is the same.

    Modern Naughty Dog do nothing but produce 100% railroad games that are only worthy of weekend rentals at best, bargain bin purchases at worst. The studio totally went down the toilet after Jason Rubin left.
    Last edited by EvaUnit02; 8th Jan 2016 at 05:12.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    You sound like a press release, that then morphs into the comments section of that same press release.

  18. #18
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    THE TOMB RAIDER GAME I'D MAKE

    Lara has heard legends of a treasure hidden in a mountain and sets out in search of it. The main portion of the gameplay would revolve around climbing and spelunking, using gameplay systems of similar complexity as Vertigo. (anyone still with me on this?) Fortunately, this time Lara brought her trusty stilts, which enable her to circumvent these mundane routes by traversing a series of increasingly difficult stilt-physics based challenges.
    Fixed that for you
    Last edited by faetal; 8th Jan 2016 at 06:58.

  19. #19
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Heh.

    @EvaUnit, oh I see. So the case for TR is "there's more of it" and "you can go back to earlier areas"? Great.

    edit: looked them up on howlongtobeat.com and TR is 11h 35m for the main story, whereas Uncharted 2 is 10h 50m.
    Last edited by henke; 8th Jan 2016 at 06:50.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Am I the only one for whom replayability isn't exclusively linked to "you can do things differently"? Just as with films and novels - that *gasp* stay the same every time you watch/read them - I sometimes enjoy replaying a game not for the novelty or challenge, but because I like the world, characters and moment-to-moment gameplay. As such, I'm much more likely to replay the Uncharted games than Tomb Raider, which I found pretty bland and lacking in personality.

  21. #21
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    edit: looked them up on howlongtobeat.com and TR is 11h 35m for the main story, whereas Uncharted 2 is 10h 50m.
    "For the main story". There's your smoking gun right there. I can watch a LP of UnSharted on Youtube and lose NOTHING.

    What the fuck is the point of making a game if it's an entirely passive experience that doesn't utilise the medium's strength of interactivity? Just fuck off to Hollywood and make a movie already.

    Warren Spector recently said that gaming is in a rut. These railroad games like UnSharted are a symptom of that.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Rhetoric, rhetoric, blah blah blah. "Passive", "interactive", these make very little sense if you compare Uncharted and Tomb Raider, two games that are practically identical in conceptual and mechanical terms. You think Tomb Raider uses the medium's strength of interactivity? It may offer a *modicum* more of agency with its more open world, but it fails at other things that for many can add to enjoyment, and arguably it is stuck in a different rut... where you can follow icons in an openish world to collect pretty baubles, which we've done in how many games over the last x years? If you want to make that particular point, you're not using particularly compelling arguments

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    In regards to the mass murdering aspect, to be fair the originals suffered from this as well. Especially 3. The amount of people you just mow down (some of them innocent unarmed bystanders) is just plain ridiculous. And that's just the people, I'm pretty sure Lara is responsible for eradicating dozens of endangered species all by herself. And the shooting mechanics were very basic: pull out your guns and hold the action button until the enemy dies, all the while jumping all over the place like a kangaroo. I know because I'm currently replaying through them (finished 2 and nearing the end of 3).

    Concerning the reboot, personally I enjoyed it. Even finished it twice, which is something I rarely do. It's a pretty shallow game, and doesn't really have much in common with classic Tomb Raiders, except for the main protagonist, but the scenery is so damn gorgeous. I liked the light Metroidvania elements but feel like they didn't do enough with them. Sure you can backtrack but there is almost no point to it. And the exploration of the game world feels too much like icon collecting from every other open-world games. I miss actually having to observe the environment to find secrets. But I guess that's one of the downsides of having a big sprawling game world with next gen graphics: you end up with so much detail and clutter that it's like finding a needle in a haystack.

    I'll probably play this one when it's 5 euros in a couple of months.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    "For the main story". There's your smoking gun right there. I can watch a LP of UnSharted on Youtube and lose NOTHING.
    Well, you lose something, but it isn't much of course.

    What the fuck is the point of making a game if it's an entirely passive experience that doesn't utilise the medium's strength of interactivity? Just fuck off to Hollywood and make a movie already.
    Yes. Not to mention few that churn out movie-like games even pull it off effectively.

    I'm so very tired of what games have become. Fuck TR2013 and I wouldn't play this new one if it were given to me for free because I don't consider it worth my faith and time. There are games out there far more deserving of it, including even the dated but adequate originals.

  25. #25
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    You know you could probably just change your sig to "I hate modern games" and just reply to any thread with a frowning emoticon and basically be on the same footing?

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