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Thread: Dark Souls III: Scholar of the First Spoiler Filled Dark Souls III Thread

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Phatose View Post
    I meant more generally. Three games I've been linking the fires, and I have no fucking clue why fires would need to be linked, or why they should be linked, or what linking the fires actually does, or why anyone in this world would do anything but go hollow, because at least that way you get to stop noticing how much the world sucks. It's like a nihilist folk tale.
    Well, it always was like that. Nothing you ever did in those games truly mattered in the long run. Linking the fire is an act against nature, and what Gwyn did probably created the bonfires and the undead curse in the first place. Witch of Izalith tried to recreate the First Flame, and look how she and her family ended up. But hey, at least you were a pawn in Gwyn/Frampt/Kaathe's game, so called "chosen undead".

  2. #77
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    The whole Dark Souls ethos is like some medieval horror-fantasy take on Kafka.

  3. #78
    I think in Dark Souls 2 it's much more "romantic" take, if I may say so. Actually, it probably starts with DS1 DLC, the Abyss and Manus. Dark being related to humanity, love, comfort, but also longing for something you don't have or can't be. There were a few lines like that in Nashandra's description, or maybe her soul or items made from her soul. Then you have other fragments of Manus, and kind of a love story in one of the DLCs. And then there is Aldia and his views on the whole cycle, and the role of humans. In the end, he almost finds it sweet and admirable for us to struggle like that, against all the odds, and despite the hopelessness of our actions:

    There is no path.
    Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of Dark…
    …what could possibly await us?
    And yet, we seek it, insatiably…
    Such is our fate.

  4. #79
    The whole Dark Souls ethos is like some medieval horror-fantasy take on Kafka
    Spot on! It really is like Berserk mixed with Kafka.

    I think in Dark Souls 2 it's much more "romantic" take, if I may say so. Actually, it probably starts with DS1 DLC, the Abyss and Manus. Dark being related to humanity, love, comfort, but also longing for something you don't have or can't be. There were a few lines like that in Nashandra's description, or maybe her soul or items made from her soul. Then you have other fragments of Manus, and kind of a love story in one of the DLCs. And then there is Aldia and his views on the whole cycle, and the role of humans. In the end, he almost finds it sweet and admirable for us to struggle like that, against all the odds, and despite the hopelessness of our actions:

    There is no path.
    Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of Dark…
    …what could possibly await us?
    And yet, we seek it, insatiably…
    Such is our fate.
    Dark Souls 2 had some really profound themes, despite the gameplay itself kind of lacking. Aldia was a great addition, and his voice Men are props on the stage of life, and no matter how tender, how exquisite... A LIE will remain a LIE!, Jesus!

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Kafka is a little strong perhaps. If it was Kafka, you'd be an insignificant pawn humiliated and judged by authority figures and you'd run around without a sense of purpose, unable to escape the surreal labyrinth that is life. Hmm... actually, it is a little bit like Kafka. Just a little, though.

  6. #81
    Btw. it's probably the only thing I don't like about the Souls series, but the DLCs are not like some optional content, in both DS1 and 2 they're an absolute must-have. DS2 is built upon Manus story (and Nashandra in her throne room looks a bit like Dusk), plus the Crown DLCs are actually giving you the opportunity to get what you initially came to Drangleic for – to find the cure.

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    With how good the DLCs are, I don't mind at all.

  8. #83
    That's why I don't mind waiting for the "final experience", i.e. Prepare to Sin for the Third Time Now Edition. That and my GF 650 Ti being subpar graphic card. And computer hardware being lowest-priority items on my expenses list nowadays

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    There's no doubt it's pretty much always been this way. This is the end of the series though, so I kind of expected something approaching not closure, but at least a basic "Why".

  10. #85
    As in real life, there's a fairly conclusive answer to that question: "42".

  11. #86
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    That's why I don't mind waiting for the "final experience", i.e. Prepare to Sin for the Third Time Now Edition. That and my GF 650 Ti being subpar graphic card. And computer hardware being lowest-priority items on my expenses list nowadays
    Sell a kidney. God gave you two for a reason.

    As far as the story of Dark Souls and it's endings go. Two was focused on the futility of the cycle of light and dark, and how to break it, while three, in its best ending, is the eventual culmination of this idea. If you linked the fires (which I always assumed was the process of you becoming one with it), you give the world another 800 or so years of new prosperity, but the eventual decline is all but guaranteed. You're founding another kingdom doomed to fail, the same as the thousands of others before. This is why the Link The Fire ending is so nondescript. It's just going through the usual motions by this point in the game's history.

    The interesting thing is that three makes mention Ages of Dark. Apparently, some have tried breaking the cycle by allowing the First Fire to fade away. It leads to a thousand years of cold emptiness, where the hollows remain hollow, and nothing ever grows, prospers or changes. It's a nihilistic choice for someone to make, to end it all for the sake of a peaceful oblivion, but it's all moot, since the First Fire will eventually rekindle itself, and begin the cycle again.

    The best ending is you taking the Dark Soul and the First Flame into yourself, breaking the cycle entirely, and beginning a new, more dynamic Age of Twilight. The beginning of this represents the end of the DS series as a whole, since the world is now set under an entirely new paradigm.

    This is how I take it all.

  12. #87
    Sell a kidney. God gave you two for a reason.
    Have you ever met a photographer or a filmmaker? A truckload of TTLG forum users' kidneys won't be enough. It's the infinite void, otherwise called "gear acquisition syndrome".

  13. #88
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Oh yeah. I've dipped my toe into that hobby. Sorry about your wallet, brah. :P

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    But is it actually going to break any cycle? Far as I can tell, what you do in ending 3 is exactly what Gwyn did all those years ago. Won't you just eventually go fully hollow yourself, then end up a new soul of cinder that some other fool will kill in a theoretical Dark Souls 6?

  15. #90
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    No, Gwyn did what everyone else has done since, which was offer himself up to the fire as kindling to keep it burning. You do...something else when you usurp the flame. It's ike you absorb it, and combine it within yourself to become something entirely new. The implied assumption is that you break the old cycle of light and dark, beginning something entirely new.

    I'm guessing that since hollowing is something tied to the old cycle, and the fact that the hollows you do see in the ending seem to be perfectly cognizant, that you yourself, nor anyone else in the world, has to suffer through that process ever again.

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Gwyn did that when he relinked the flame the first time, but not when he created it. I don't think it's an accident that the soul of cinder uses Gwyn's moveset - but not the set's you'd expect from any of the other fire-linkers in between.

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    Actually, it uses some of the most prevalent player movesets throughout the series in the first phase.

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Huh. Didn't notice.

  19. #94
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Phatose View Post
    Gwyn did that when he relinked the flame the first time, but not when he created it. I don't think it's an accident that the soul of cinder uses Gwyn's moveset - but not the set's you'd expect from any of the other fire-linkers in between.
    Gwyn never created the First Flame. He was a hollow, same as everyone else during the Age of Ancients, who found a lords soul within it when it first burst onto the scene.

    As for the Soul of Cinder, it's the combination of all the souls of the Chosen Undead, those who succeeded in linking the fire over the past hundreds of thousands of years, including your characters from DS1 & 2. That's why, as Van said above, it cycles through all the most popular player movesets and tactics throughout the first phase of the fight, with Gwyn emerging at the end to kick ass one last time.

    What was it the Fire Keeper says before you make the final trip into the Kiln? Something like "it's time to put the old gods of Lordran to rest"? That's exactly what you're doing here. You're putting the old away to make room for something new (or joining them, if you so want).

  20. #95
    Yup. Not sure if there are any other sources to say something more, but in the DS1 intro the First Flame just appears after the Age of Grey and everlasting dragons.

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Finland, Helsinki rock city
    Quote Originally Posted by van HellSing View Post
    Linking the fire in the first game resulted in a big flash of light, suggesting the first flame really might have been rekindled. But here? it barely seems to do anything. Even the sun is still screwed up.
    I thought that the sun was the first flame. It has that beam going down which suggested to me the "linking".

  22. #97
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    The sun is somehow connected to the First Flame, and is kinda symbolic of it, I think, but it's something separate.

  23. #98
    Moderator
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Australia
    Currently battling my way through the Irithyll of the Boreal Valley. As well as being one of the most beautiful settings in the whole series, it also has amazing gameplay reminiscent of some of the best parts of the DS2 DLCs, filled with a fiendish variety of challenging enemies at every turn. That terrible giant dog like outsider gaurdian was a fitting segue for the rest of the level.

  24. #99
    Moderator
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Australia
    Almost beat this bastard on my first try


    Got him on my second attempt. A fun battle but I found him much easier than the outsider guardian at the beginning who killed me at least 6-7 times. While I've done almost all of the bosses solo so far I decided to get some help with Pontiff, as I was a little fatigued getting through the level up to that point.
    Last edited by twisty; 30th Apr 2016 at 10:55.

  25. #100
    Is it just me or is magic severely underpowered in this game?

    I've tried using some miracles, some sorceries....even the pyromancies do less damage than single strike with my upgraded claymore.


    Also if you run into a guy named "moses" that's me.

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