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View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the European Union?

Voters
51. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES!...Must Brexit!

    20 39.22%
  • NO!...We Must Remain!

    25 49.02%
  • I have no idea what I want, yet I will vote anyway!

    6 11.76%
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Results 601 to 620 of 620

Thread: BREXIT --->

  1. #601
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    It's very hard to say big data & analytics should be illegal or somehow unethical. But it is a form of emotional manipulation, so you shouldn't trust the results. (In courts, the US has rules against emotional manipulation, so it's not unprecedented.)

    Re the difference between left and right, on that I think there's a natural imbalance. The emotions that drive Right opinion are things like disgust and fear, which are very easy to stoke with targeted messaging, and the person is less likely ro reject it as manipulation. Whereas the motivating emotions for Left opinion are things like empathy and justice, which are more abstract, harder to evoke in ways that don't backfire (eg, it's not going to favor big pocket candidates that can afford the campaigns), and maybe most importantly the target audience is a lot more likely to reject the messaging as manipulative.


    But even if it's not unethical per se, it just seems there's something troubling about democracy being at the mercy of blatant emotional manipulation, and that it's so effective. What if we're at the limits of human capacity and these algorithms can stoke Rightist fears every time on cue, and that just becomes the new normal? Sounds like such a sad status quo to end up with.

  2. #602
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by PigLick View Post
    all this brexit talk and I still dont have my bacon
    Piglick just ain't Piglick without a pig to lick.

  3. #603
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Campaigning has always involved emotional manipulation, but yeah, I agree it's going to get worse. With the collection of vast portfolios of data on individuals, tools for mining it, and the technology to deliver an individually customized message for maximum effect, all that's lacking is smarter data science to really take advantage of it. So far, based on the micro-targeted ads that I get subjected to, I would say that software is still pretty dumb and we have time before it become highly effective.

    One of the things that worries me for the future is that the big databases and advertising infrastructure needed to conduct future campaigns is controlled by a small handful of very large companies, mostly in silicon valley. Meaning there is a risk of our national parties and candidates becoming dependent on a small number of tech executives who could have more influence than any big donors currently do.

    Fortunately, the big players like Google and Facebook have kept their services relatively open and politically neutral. But if for whatever reason these companies decided to use their services to promote a political agenda, like many media companies do, they could have a huge impact.

  4. #604
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    It seems to be saying that . . .
    Thank you. You always give me a lucid explanation and I'm grateful.

  5. #605
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: uk
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    One of the things that worries me for the future is that the big databases and advertising infrastructure needed to conduct future campaigns is controlled by a small handful of very large companies, mostly in silicon valley. Meaning there is a risk of our national parties and candidates becoming dependent on a small number of tech executives who could have more influence than any big donors currently do.
    It'll be interesting to see how these sorts of companies get on with their current strategy of "clicking on the advert counts as consent to do whatever we like with everything we can find about you" (coupled with hiding in parts of the world where pretty much all data is for sale to anyone) in a post GDPR world (not everything the EU has a hand in is a bad thing).

  6. #606
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    So, if you can trust the exit polls, it looks like the gamble didn't pay off and Tories will lose some seats, possibly even ending up short of the majority. Either way, doesn't look good for Theresa May.

  7. #607
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Hmm. The same exit poll error that happened in 2015 would still give them a majority. Definitely not a good move, though.

  8. #608
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Right, so May accidentally kicked the ball into the neighbours garden, and now she's teaming up with the local creationist, racist, sexist fuckwits to go fish it out. Awesome.

  9. #609
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    So I guess I was right to be skeptical. What are the chances that May gets replaced?

  10. #610
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    I'd say pretty high, but not sure when.

  11. #611
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    I guess it wouldn't properly be 2017 unless you traded in one barmy government for one even more duff.

  12. #612
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    I can't see May being allowed to fight another general election. She somehow achieved the feat of losing seats to the worst opposition in living memory. She has managed to make things even more chaotic than they were before, which I didn't think possible.

    One has to enjoy the irony that, after slamming Corbyn as a terrorist sympathiser, she has to go cap in hand to the terrorist-supporting DUP for a majority.

  13. #613
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Actually I thought Corbyn and Labour were great. Credible, unified opposition with a sensible and plausible manifesto. Although If you'd asked me even a month or so ago I would definitely not have said that. This has been a real karate-kid moment for Corbs.

  14. #614
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Corbyn has acquitted himself well, but that doesn't alter what he is, nor does it make his fantasy wishlist of policies any more realistic or affordable.

    I find the whole thing profoundly hilarious.

  15. #615
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Here's an unapologetically leftist recap of the whole thing:


  16. #616
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    Could someone explain to a dumb (also lazy) American why Sinn Fein isn't taking their seats?

  17. #617
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Sinn Fein is a nationalist party whose goal is united Ireland. To take part in British politics would somewhat undermine their goal of not taking part in British politics.

    Really, though, it's just a form of protest.

  18. #618
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Europops
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    Corbyn has acquitted himself well, but that doesn't alter what he is, nor does it make his fantasy wishlist of policies any more realistic or affordable.
    I thought the whole thing was fully costed and validated by over 120 academic economists. Was the Lib Dem manifesto costed? Don't be a bitter yellow SD, Lib Dems did alright and Tim, despite being a nobody coming into this, did really well (imho) especially in the debates.

    None of this matters though - the Tories are the only game in town \o/

    It's not the leader that matters so much (see Labour for the prime example) but the policies.

  19. #619
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    I thought the whole thing was fully costed and validated by over 120 academic economists. Was the Lib Dem manifesto costed? Don't be a bitter yellow SD, Lib Dems did alright and Tim, despite being a nobody coming into this, did really well (imho) especially in the debates.

    None of this matters though - the Tories are the only game in town \o/

    It's not the leader that matters so much (see Labour for the prime example) but the policies.
    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that neither Labour nor the Tories were being honest about their tax and spending plans. The IFS thought that Labour's plans wouldn't raise anything like as much as the 50bn they were claiming, and if you know anything at all about what HMRC calls behavioural impact, you would have to agree with their conclusions.

    Like I said, fantasy economics.

    The Economist endorsed the Lib Dems in the election, so nuff said there.

    I am not bitter, just enjoying the complete hash of things the Tories are making without the Lib Dems around to make them look competent. The 2010-2015 coalition is already looking like a golden age of stability and good government.

  20. #620
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: uk
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    Like I said, fantasy economics.
    It's other people's money so it doesn't matter.

    and the magic money tree is absolute fact, not fantasy.

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