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Thread: Played Thief for years before discovering...

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Earth
    Quote Originally Posted by Purgator View Post
    The Thief voice sets aren't mission specific. There isn't a different voice set for each mission.
    Conversations can set the scene and offer pertinent information for the player in a particular scenario. Voice sets just offer a level of immersion.
    If a thief in the Guild mentions guards, it's because that line is included in his voice set. He's reached a level of alertness that triggers such dialogue. It's there to give the situation some depth, and to let you know he's pissed off. There are no mission clues in voice set dialogue.
    The "You better hope..." line works well when you disturb a burglary in progress, as in LOTP in TMA. However, it does seem a little out of place in the Guild, but as I said it's there for atmosphere.
    Wanted to add to this - What Purgator says is 'technically' true - so that line is randomly said out of a set of lines.

    That being said, if you want to think of it from a less technical standpoint, you could just pretend that he is referring to the fact that in the city there are guards and that you would be far better off being caught by him than the guards - which is really (obviously I would think) a ploy to get you out in the open so the thief can kill you. And , as was mentioned before, there is an actual city watch outside of the guild. Yes, he is not on their side, that is actually I think the point of that line - that you'd be safer being caught by the thief than by the guard.


    But yeah, I guess that is one of the "flaws" of thief is that the AI randomly spouts something without regards to context. This calls to mind something that has happened to me in Lord Bafford's Manor and I always found amusing. There has been times where the servants back in the servant quarters spot me and freak out, saying "help, he's got a sword" or "help, he's got a bow" but I'm actually physically holding the opposite when they say that.

    To try to be on topic:

    IIRC, I learned later on (I think from reading this very forum actually) that the talking the ghosts do is actually real words backwards - I always just figured it was gibberish.
    Last edited by sNeaksieGarrett; 26th Jul 2017 at 22:53.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    Yes, played Thief Gold for years before discovering that in ThievesīGuild one of the guards that are having that funny conversation at the beginning of the mission will go after the guard patrolling the street and kill him if heīs been spotted when the main door is open and the servant woman in the kitchen has noticed your presence and asks for help.

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by Purgator View Post
    The Thief voice sets aren't mission specific. There isn't a different voice set for each mission.
    Conversations can set the scene and offer pertinent information for the player in a particular scenario. Voice sets just offer a level of immersion.
    If a thief in the Guild mentions guards, it's because that line is included in his voice set. He's reached a level of alertness that triggers such dialogue. It's there to give the situation some depth, and to let you know he's pissed off. There are no mission clues in voice set dialogue.
    The "You better hope..." line works well when you disturb a burglary in progress, as in LOTP in TMA. However, it does seem a little out of place in the Guild, but as I said it's there for atmosphere.
    A few lines are mission-specific though.
    Only in Song of the Caverns, guards say "Curtains down for you" or something like that.
    Only in Assassins, they say "Wait, is someone behind us/is someone following us?" and these lines are not used anywhere else.
    But as far as I can see, they are a part of general voicesets for Guards 1, 2, and 3.

    What's funnier is that Opera 1 and Opera 2 voicesets, which were created specifically for the Opera level, were later used for regular T2 noblemen, so they say out-of-place stuff such as "The rats around here perform more than we do."
    Last edited by marbleman; 27th Jul 2017 at 11:05.

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Any Burricks doen there in the cave below the triangle hole?

    Since this thread has come back:
    I have discovered that you can gas arrow frogbeasts and they even make a "falling over" sound.

    That Assassins and Song can be failed without having violating any given objectives or dying.

    That you may be taking half-points of damage even without the health bar visibily diminishing or you crying out. Well, that is what HDM1.2 is suggesting anyway, when you get the blood indicaters of damage even without the above cues.

    Still do not understand:
    Why some people are so murderous towards you. The mages in Lost City, why attack you? You are just a wandering hobo who got lost for all they know.

    How Would Karras's plan have actually worked? He wanted to destroy the Earth by placing 30 gas-emmitting servants around one city on it?

    Are some of ther levels randomised in terms of enemy starting positions? I can play THC several time taking the exact same route until I drop down into the Crayman's lair, and sometimes the Burricks will all be waiting for me near the power station section, sometimes one will be patrolling the sewers the rest at the station area, and rarely one will be in the caves to greet me. It is as if such things are randomised every time I play?

    Why do some people call the Craymen Ratmen? They are nothing like rat men? I think that might even be their name in the files?
    Last edited by Cigam; 28th Jul 2017 at 06:39.

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    So when LGS created the Guild level they were anticipating that the thieves would be used elsewhere? Maybe they knew they would be used in LoTP and there the guards line does make more sense since there are guards in the location.

    On another note, when the guards say that you'd be better of if they find you before the mages do, well actually I would much rather deal with mages. They do not give much of a chase and have to wait between attacks.

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Location: Wisconsin
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    How Would Karras's plan have actually worked?
    As I recall, when the rust gas devours organic material, it turns that organic material into more rust gas. On its own, the rust gas wouldn't get far, and it would quickly settle into dust and become harmless. Therefore, Karras wanted to use the Cultivators from the Lost City to spread the gas further, allowing it to find and devour more organisms and multiply in volume. By sending the Servants to noble mansions with large gardens or conservatories, Karras was ensuring that the rust gas had enough organic material nearby so that it would quickly get out of control, thus consuming all organic life in The City (besides himself) and spreading into the wilds beyond.

    Are some of ther levels randomised in terms of enemy starting positions?
    Starting positions aren't randomized, but the behavior you're seeing with the burricks has at least two explanations:
    1) The burricks are set to patrol randomly, meaning they can pick any TrolPt on their route to walk to, as opposed to following the TrolPts in order.
    2) When patrolling AI get too far away from you, their patrol will "freeze" until you get close enough for them to "reactivate."

    Why do some people call the Craymen Ratmen?
    They're not talking about the craymen, but the "apebeasts" from the last three missions of TDP/G, due to their long tails and their face resembling a rodent's. Personally, I prefer to call them "monkeybeasts" to differentiate them from the apebeasts in TMA. Then we got actual ratbeasts in TDS, so...yeah. Definitely no "ratmen" in TDP/G.

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Thansk for the technical info. Pity the Burricks don't seem to randomly travel to the caves more often, since it is so much easier to deal with one there than all three right at the end.

    Karras Plan: Seems a bit ambitious that the gas generated in the City would spread overseas and all over the Earth. But then he was mad wasn't he.

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    ...I have discovered that you can gas arrow frogbeasts and they even make a "falling over" sound...
    You can also blackjack frogbeasts, I was always disappointed that I couldn't pick an unconscious frogbeast up & use them as grenades

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2015
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post

    Karras Plan: Seems a bit ambitious that the gas generated in the City would spread overseas and all over the Earth. But then he was mad wasn't he.
    In my opinion, Karras "only" wanted to wipe out the city. In LotP, Karras wrote that the drew circles, he knew the rust gas had a certain range. He wanted to construct the Builders Paradise on the ruins of the City after doomsday.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Esme, blackjacking frogbeasts sounds dangerous. Surely they are too low to sneak up on them, and so you are referring to clonking them as they jump towards you?

    Thinking Robot, in one of his Soulforge prattlings he says 'I am thankful that Karass was chosen to cleanse the Earth...,' Maybe this version of Earth is a lot smaller than ours

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Realised today while playing Lost City that the opening City section is not just some new section created for this mission, it appears in Assassins. It is actually the "home turf" area and so you are beginning Lost City outside your home, or near to it.

    Perhaps I never realised this because I have not gone there that much in Assassins. Also, if you go to that part of the map in Assassins and jump in the river, the Lost City portal stone is there.

    Makes me wonder whether there are any other City overlaps I have failed to spot. Maybe part of Assassins is part of Baffords or Undercover say.

    Still though, even after more than 15 years I am finding out new stuff.
    Last edited by Cigam; 2nd Aug 2017 at 21:25.

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2014
    I only discovered recently that holding crouch while on a ladder causes the player to slide down it. For the longest time I had been going to the bottom and if Garrett didn't hop off the ladder I would jump causing a lot of unnecessary noise.

    Also I learned that if you hold crouch on the ladder and let go before you hit the bottom Garrett will grab back onto the ladder, so it's great if you want to slide down part of the way.

  13. #88
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Location: Montpellier, France
    That was introduced in NewDark.

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    Esme, blackjacking frogbeasts sounds dangerous. Surely they are too low to sneak up on them, and so you are referring to clonking them as they jump towards you?
    Nope, crouch behind them, centre the frog, raise the BJ which will make you stand, so hit crouch again & swing, voila one KO'd frog, frog needs to be stationary long enough for you to do this I've never managed to KO a moving frog

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by goldwell View Post
    Also I learned that if you hold crouch on the ladder and let go before you hit the bottom Garrett will grab back onto the ladder, so it's great if you want to slide down part of the way.
    Say what? If I tap or even hold crouch, Garrett falls all the way to the bottom no matter what I try. Is there some kind of trick to re-attaching to a ladder?

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    Realised today while playing Lost City that the opening City section is not just some new section created for this mission, it appears in Assassins. It is actually the "home turf" area and so you are beginning Lost City outside your home, or near to it.

    Perhaps I never realised this because I have not gone there that much in Assassins. Also, if you go to that part of the map in Assassins and jump in the river, the Lost City portal stone is there.

    Makes me wonder whether there are any other City overlaps I have failed to spot. Maybe part of Assassins is part of Baffords or Undercover say.

    Still though, even after more than 15 years I am finding out new stuff.
    WOW - can't believe I never realized this!!

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by TannisRoot View Post
    WOW - can't believe I never realized this!!
    That's what I thought when I saw the canal portal stone in Assassin's

    Esme, yet another thing I did not know then That you can blackjack or sword-swing while crouched just by re-crouching after he auto-stands.

    Still do not know why Garrett is not more affluent. He gives the impression that he is living one lot of rent at a time. Thought a master theif would be richer

    Still do not know why robots do not clang on metal. If Garrett's tap-dancing shoes clang surely their metal feet would
    Last edited by Cigam; 12th Aug 2017 at 11:53.

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by marbleman View Post
    Say what? If I tap or even hold crouch, Garrett falls all the way to the bottom no matter what I try. Is there some kind of trick to re-attaching to a ladder?
    What settings do you have in the main menu with regards to the ladder? Is it attach on touch or attach on jump? I suspect that may be why Garrett doesn't grab back on for you.

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    It is set to "jump," but after I changed it to "touch," I still can't pull this off...

    I know that this works with ropes: if you let go high up, Garrett will grab on back to the rope a bit lower. Can't get it work with ladders.

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by marbleman View Post
    It is set to "jump," but after I changed it to "touch," I still can't pull this off...

    I know that this works with ropes: if you let go high up, Garrett will grab on back to the rope a bit lower. Can't get it work with ladders.
    I just tested it out ingame and you're right! It does only work with ropes, derp.. sorry! I swore it worked with ladders too but I must have been remembering it wrong. Still a useful feature nonetheless

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Sorry for dragging this up but recently discovered two tactics from playing an FM. Neither are particularly needed for the OMs so that's probably why I never discovered them.

    First you can influence whether the human you blackjack falls forwards or backwards. Aim high and je falls forwards, low and he falls backwards. This came up in a section where I NEEDED the guy to fall back because forward was guaranteed to alert the nearby guards no matter how quickly I picked him up.

    The other new thing I learned is that firing a moss arrow into the ceiling causes the floor underneath to get mossed. This came up because I had to climb up a ladder to a walkway and sneak up on a guard before she saw me. Except that the walkway was metal so it was quite difficult to get off the ladder and onto it without a clang. And even if that was managed, I had to then shoot a moss arrow onto the walkway then run up to her and clonk her, all with the extremely few number of seconds there were while her back was turned.

    But shooting the ceiling above the walkway meant there was a ready-made moss carpet for me to step off the ladder onto.

    Only relatively minor things and as I say, not needed in the OMs, but hey I played Thief games for years before that one FM (Rebellion Of The Builder 2) forced me to experiment and try new things.

  22. #97
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2018

    cthulhu-statue in the "lost city"?

    I never had the Thief Gold-edition, only the original version from 1998 and didnīt play it since at least 15 years.. Now i decided to get back to Garrettīs world and stumbled over the Cthulhu-statue in the caverns of "The Lost City". Never thought that i see such a thing there ;-)

  23. #98
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2018
    After playing thief for about 20 years I learned the other day that you can shoot certain loot pieces with a broadhead and shatter them, and you can do the same with the blue vases. I don't think I had ever heard that shatter sound in my life. The blue vases also break if you drop them from high enough.

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Played for years and still searching for the answer as to how to guarantee that your sword blows will stop a projectile-attacker.

    I am talking about the times you rush an archer for example, and keep hitting them. Most of the time your strikes will prevent them from firing off an arrow in your face, but every now and again they decide to ignore the blows and get in an attack. Which can be very costly at close range.

    What is the answer here to always stop them?

    On another note, re-watched The Excorcist for the first time since before first playing Thief II in 2002, and remembered that the main priest character is named Father Karras Is this a very well known thing?
    Last edited by Cigam; 29th Mar 2018 at 11:55.

  25. #100
    AKA H3H3
    Registered: Aug 2016
    Location: My mum's basement
    Quote Originally Posted by Cigam View Post
    On another note, re-watched The Excorcist for the first time since before first playing Thief II in 2002, and remembered that the main priest character is named Father Karras Is this a very well known thing?
    Funny thing is, I watched The Exorcist again last week and was thinking the same thing. I've heard no-one else mention this before, not even the Looking Glass members. Not sure if the name 'Karras' was inspired out of that, but then again, it's not a common one either.

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