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Thread: Sexist? Definitely, Maybe

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne

    Sexist? Definitely, Maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    As a very smart, funny, eloquent and accomplished woman who will be mostly remembered for that time she looked hot in a novelty bikini, Fisher will always be sort of emblematic of everything that was wrong in the 70's and continues to be wrong today. She was a serious dude. RIP.
    It wasn't just a novelty bikini. It was a bondage fetish fantasy with a muppet monster in an age 8+ rated blockbuster. The thing has its own Wikipedia page!
    And the fact we can't have stuff like that any more because some overzealous prudes think this somehow detracts from a smart and witty person is why people are voting Trump. Meanwhile young women completely get its power and can't wait to wear that piece on their own terms.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    It wasn't just a novelty bikini. It was a bondage fetish fantasy with a muppet monster in an age 8+ rated blockbuster. The thing has its own Wikipedia page!
    And the fact we can't have stuff like that any more because some overzealous prudes think this somehow detracts from a smart and witty person is why people are voting Trump. Meanwhile young women completely get its power and can't wait to wear that piece on their own terms.
    I can't work out if you're taking the piss or actually being gross.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Let's just say if I had one I'd wear it for you.

    And don't you forget that the people who hold this fantasy dearly are the ones who built the internet for you.
    Last edited by Kolya; 31st Dec 2016 at 19:24.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Sooo...... If we take the string of insane leaps to its illogical conclusion... Kolya thinks Al Gore voted Trump?

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Yeh, whatever.


  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: on a mission to civilize
    Al Gore invented Trump.

    Think about it.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    I'm thinking about it

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Thinking about thinking about it?

  9. #9
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Not giving a crap.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    As a very smart, funny, eloquent and accomplished woman who will be mostly remembered for that time she looked hot in a novelty bikini, Fisher will always be sort of emblematic of everything that was wrong in the 70's and continues to be wrong today. She was a serious dude. RIP.
    Actually I kept vacillating whether to point out the bikini thing happened in the 80's or not. There were of course things in the 70's not fair to women however Star Wars was not one of them as it had a strong decisive female capable of leading and happy to do so. Sexualization of adult men and women I find natural because we ARE sexual beings. It need not negate intelligence or step on feminist toes. Star Wars was not the sexy victim/damsel in distress sort of movie.

    In short, I agree with Kolya and Trumps victory can tangentially be attributed to over reaction to oversensitive weenies.

    And Walter Winchell invented Hitler.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    It's not oversensitive man, it's what women think about it. I am repeating what women say and have said to me about stuff like this. You can call em feminists if you like, but really you're just talking about women. Even westworld, which I thought did a good job of having women in strong roles etc - I was talking to gf and other female mates about it, and they said 'yeah, but they also get raped a lot, and they have to look hot all the time'. It contributes to the idea that women should be judged on their appearance, no matter what else they are also judged on. It's not that she wasn't a decent female character, but that she was the ONLY female character, and no matter what else they did they spent screentime pointing out how hot she looked in her underwear. That's the problem for most women I know, who would mostly like to get on with their lives without having to worry about how attractive they look all the fucking time, and I don't feel like I have any right to tell them they're wrong, because that shit is very much their call. Does that make sense?

    Fair point about the 80s though.

    Hang on, are you referring to me when you say 'oversensitive weenies'?
    Last edited by Vivian; 4th Jan 2017 at 10:03.

  12. #12
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    It's jarring how EVERY time I'm reading an opinion about how racism / xenophobia / sexism / homophobia / transphobia / etc... aren't as much of a problem as people say it is, it's pretty much guaranteed that it will be a straight white man saying it. I don't feel affected by any of those prejudices either, probably because I am not the target.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post
    Trumps victory can tangentially be attributed to over reaction to oversensitive weenies.
    In part, this is true.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    It's not oversensitive man, it's what women think about it.
    They may think about it...nonetheless, for the most part, they still will take action according to their biological directives.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    They may think about it...nonetheless, for the most part, they still will take action according to their biological directives.
    What do you mean?

  15. #15
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    This should be enlightening.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    What do you mean?
    It's not an "idea that women should be judged on their physical appearance"...it's a biological directive for reproduction.

    Of course, this isn't the only thing a woman should be judged by...However, since the successful reproduction of a species is paramount, it will generally take priority and be acted upon accordingly...consciously or subconsciously.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    For reproduction, yes. But we're talking about socially and professionally. I like it when hot women look hot in a sexual context, i.e. when I am romantically about to have rad sex them with them (which I do all the time btw). It's a bit weird when it's more of just a general requirement for participation in culture, industry and society. And yes, there is the argument that the space bikini thing was in a sexual context and is therefore cool (which I don't really buy), but its an omnipresent background hum to characterisation of film women in general for that era. Q "What's she like?" A "She's beautiful", etc.
    Last edited by Vivian; 4th Jan 2017 at 14:21.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    For reproduction, yes. But we're talking about socially and professionally. I like it when hot women look hot in a sexual context, i.e. when I am romantically about to have rad sex them with them (which I do all the time btw).
    What I'm saying is that biological directives don't disappear during social and professional contexts, they're only pushed down beneath the surface for functionality.

    It's a bit weird when it's more of just a general requirement for participation in culture, industry and society.
    Biological directives are there at all times. Therefore a woman will be internally driven to be as attractive as possible in any public context. They may of course override this instinct due to a social constraint, yet it will always be there.
    Last edited by Vae; 4th Jan 2017 at 18:07. Reason: removed Kolya comment

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    It's jarring how EVERY time I'm reading an opinion about how racism / xenophobia / sexism / homophobia / transphobia / etc... aren't as much of a problem as people say it is, it's pretty much guaranteed that it will be a straight white man saying it. I don't feel affected by any of those prejudices either, probably because I am not the target.
    When a group's theory can only be falsified by the members of that group it is either an ideology or a religion.

    Sexism exists of course. And there exist actual facts to prove it instead of the lazy circular arguments that you require. Every 2 seconds a minor girl is being married, more than 200 million girls and women alive today have been victims of genital mutilation and equal rights for women aren't normal in large parts of this world.

    But yeah, Leia's bikini. Awful. We should start a Facebook group.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    "Hey color-blind person, I'll bet you can read this rainbow text."
    "No I can't."
    "Oh, that must be your religion."

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    A colour blind person can understand what rainbow text is despite not being able to experience it. And you wouldn't exclude them from a discussion about it, would you?
    A man can actually experience sexism.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    It's not oversensitive man, it's what women think about it. I am repeating what women say and have said to me about stuff like this. You can call em feminists if you like, but really you're just talking about women. Even westworld, which I thought did a good job of having women in strong roles etc - I was talking to gf and other female mates about it, and they said 'yeah, but they also get raped a lot, and they have to look hot all the time'. It contributes to the idea that women should be judged on their appearance, no matter what else they are also judged on. It's not that she wasn't a decent female character, but that she was the ONLY female character, and no matter what else they did they spent screentime pointing out how hot she looked in her underwear. That's the problem for most women I know, who would mostly like to get on with their lives without having to worry about how attractive they look all the fucking time, and I don't feel like I have any right to tell them they're wrong, because that shit is very much their call. Does that make sense?

    Fair point about the 80s though.

    Hang on, are you referring to me when you say 'oversensitive weenies'?
    LOL no. I don't know you well enough to know. But if you were the sort who took offense at Steve Martins tribute where he included beautiful in his description along with smart and other adjectives then yes. I consider myself a feminist. I take note of Trump when he only seems to value women for their looks. BUT neither women nor men are above sexual attraction and if they are then they are anomalies.

    The bikini thing? What was that the third one? Lasted a few minutes? That was about her humiliation. Or her attempted humiliation I should say. She wasn't. It failed. She killed him. Pretty easy to follow. It was a win for feminism. You may have over sensitive weenie female mates. Do they also decry the bare chested Conan movies?
    Last edited by Tocky; 4th Jan 2017 at 20:38. Reason: Thought I made a mistake but was mistaken.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Im not sure you have much grounds to call anyone oversensitive, Mr paint fumes. How is your mum anyway?

    If the vast majority of male characters in films were bare chested Conans there might have been an issue, yeah. But there is a good balance of male characters, and for every one that has their physical attractiveness emphasised there are a dozen who are valued for their strength, wisdom, pool ability, whatever, and their appearance isn't even mentioned. There was and still is a lack of that for girls.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    My mom is hanging on. She has had strokes, heart disease, chrones disease, and other maladies but she is tough. I fear this may be the year as she has a lot of trouble getting around now. It worries me greatly.

    You can take things too far is all I'm saying. Some people don't seem to realize that. Most movies are a fair reflection of society or a particular time and if we start measuring how much of this or that we include the story suffers. Attractiveness has been a thing in movies for both male and female since the start of them. I've seen abuses but if we start seeing one in every hedgerow then it diminishes the real ones.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    What people don't seem to realise (or perhaps are unable to handle) is this: you can like something, even love it, and still be critical of some of its elements. That's not betrayal, it's not hypocritical. People think that if you criticise something beloved, you're shitting on it - but how much do you actually love something if you can't accept that someone might criticise aspects of it?

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