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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    10 17.86%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    13 23.21%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    29 51.79%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    0 0%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    4 7.14%
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Results 3,776 to 3,792 of 3792

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #3776
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    BTW, what possible incentive would the Dems have to touch ACA reform, much less "fix" it? It's not broken from their perspective, and it only hands Trump an unearned victory. He's on a pipedream if he thinks they'll crawl to him to fix it.
    For the former, it may not be "broken" exactly, but it's certainly not working as well as it should. Giving more people access to comprehensive insurance is only half the equation. For it to truly succeed all around, it'll need to live up to its namesake, and be affordable as well.

    This is the ACAs greatest failure. It hasn't done a thing to stimie the ever rising cost of our healthcare.

    For the latter? For one thing, i's probably in the Democrat's best interests to not do what the Republicans have done for the last 7 years, but at the same time, they don't want to hand Trump a victory over something he's actively trying to spite. I think the best thing for them to do is to do their job, but make a giant show of it. They need to be out there, talking to people, asking them what they think they need, rather than telling them what they should want. They should advertise the fact they're working on solutions, not merely playing the opposition to the current majority party.

    Yeah, it's still playing politics, but it's to a slightly more tolerable end. The Republicans have spent far too long focusing on furthering their ideology at the expense of all else. The Democrats need to step up and say "okay, ideology is well and good, but it's time to be realistic."

  2. #3777
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    BTW, what possible incentive would the Dems have to touch ACA reform, much less "fix" it?
    How about doing the right thing!...

    It's not broken from their perspective, and it only hands Trump an unearned victory.
    The ACA is objectively faulty and inefficient...doomed to implode under its own unsustainability.

    He's on a pipedream if he thinks they'll crawl to him to fix it.
    The Dems will never crawl to Trump...but they will end up committing political suicide.

    Today was a blessing in disguise for the Republicans. Instead of replacing one hair-brained plan with another, they are now in the position to allow the ACA to break itself, with the Dems bearing the responsibility...and if they wish, come up with a plan worthy of praise beyond politics.
    Last edited by Vae; 25th Mar 2017 at 05:15.

  3. #3778
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    The ACA is objectively faulty and inefficient...doomed to implode under its own unsustainability.
    You're right, though likely for the wrong reasons.

    Any Republican backed plan will inevitably suffer the same fate as the ACA, simply because all plans currently being forwarded are pinned upon the sinking ship that is our private insurance setup. Think about it. If mandating every able bodied person pay money into this system didn't do anything to make it sustainable or affordable, what do you think making it entirely opt-in by choice would do? You'd end up with the same problems, but with less money available throughout. You'd have more people paying a higher premium for a lesser quality of service.

    With Obamacare remaining in place, it's at least given lease to limp along for the foreseeable future. Trumpcare would've only served to hasten the inevitable, and would've greatly inconvenienced millions more during the ride there.

  4. #3779
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    The wall? A milliin dollars per every 3 Mexicans that take a month to get in instead of a week.
    Everyone knows that Mexicans can't cross walls. Or was it vampires? In any case, I bet the wall will make them think twice about overstaying their visas. Maybe even three times, if you're lucky.

  5. #3780
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Yes I think the main thing ACA does is keep our existing insurance model and greatly expanded the pool of beneficiaries, which by its nature hedges risk better. Waiting for it to collapse will be like waiting for those WMDs to appear in Iraq.
    What do you see when you turn out the lights? / I can't tell you, but I know that it's mine. (J. Lennon)

  6. #3781
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    It's really bizarre though when the leader of your country is cheering on the collapse of your healthcare system.

    Oh, and this little gem is pretty funny right now:

    Last edited by Starker; 25th Mar 2017 at 10:17.

  7. #3782
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    The elephant in the room is the rate of cost growth, and neither the ACA nor the Republican plan addresses the root causes.

    I was happy to see the Republican plan fail, but I wish they had gone ahead with the vote anyway just so those freedom caucus idiots would be on record for having voted to save Obamacare.

  8. #3783
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    This is a Lord Dampnut thread. Me talking about Lord Dampnut but not about McCain should hardly be surprising.


    And as far as "US invading Syria because Assad has used WMDs" goes, read up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack
    I'm already aware of that. I also happen to know that the US badly wanted to invade Syria long before that. Hell, I was in line unit circa 2012 and our fictional training campaigns had is invading a country that just happened to closely resemble Syria's ethnic composition, where the people were supposed to speak the same languages....and where we were supposed to be protecting pipeline construction efforts.

    Your link more or less supports my main point: that the American neocons WANTED to invade Syria but were only stopped from doing so because of Russian opposition.

    For the former, it may not be "broken" exactly, but it's certainly not working as well as it should. Giving more people access to comprehensive insurance is only half the equation. For it to truly succeed all around, it'll need to live up to its namesake, and be affordable as well.

    This is the ACAs greatest failure. It hasn't done a thing to stimie the ever rising cost of our healthcare.
    It wasn't ever intended to. Even back then the passage of the bill was met with RISING healthcare company starts, which isn't exactly what you'd expect from a bill that was going to "cut costs" ( and consequently harm revenue). http://www.salon.com/2009/12/22/health_care/

    Personally I'd be for setting up a public option as a CHOICE (structured similarly to the Federal Home Loan Bank system), but that's not what ACA did and it's definitely not what their "replacement" plan, which somehow managed to be even worse than the original ACA, did.

    I still think Greenwald summed it up best in 2009:

    But whatever else one might want to say in favor of this health care bill — and there are compelling arguments to make in its favor — the notion that Democrats have “stood up to the special interests who prevented reform for decades” is too blatantly false, insultingly so, to tolerate. As even the bill’s most vocal supporters acknowledge, the White House’s strategy from the start was to negotiate in secret with those very special interests in order to craft a bill that they liked and that benefits them. If one wants to invoke the Obama-era religious mantra of “pragmatism” to argue that this was a shrewd strategic decision necessary for getting a bill passed, that at least is coherent (though not, in my view, persuasive). But this bill is unquestionably one of the greatest boons in recent history for the private health insurance industry and other “special interests” that have long been opposing “reform.” It’s a major advancement for the corporatist model on which both parties rely. It should lead a rational person to want to buy large amounts of stock in Goldman Sachs and Citigroup in anticipation of the upcoming “reform” of that industry. Whatever this bill is, “standing up to special interests” is not it; quite the opposite.

    Also the corn wore it better. Somehow Trump manages the remarkable feat of being ugly by politician standards.

  9. #3784
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    They weren't stopped by Russian opposition. That came later. They were stopped by Obama, who didn't want to deploy troops to the region.

    Though that's not to say he took an entirely peaceful route. He opted for the always popular arming of insurgents, and drone strikes in lieu.

  10. #3785
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    They weren't stopped by Russian opposition. That came later. They were stopped by Obama, who didn't want to deploy troops to the region.

    Though that's not to say he took an entirely peaceful route. He opted for the always popular arming of insurgents, and drone strikes in lieu.
    That was his public position. ODA's from the 10th Special Forces group (Fort Carson, Colorado) had boots on the ground in limited numbers training "rebels".

    Overall though it is true that Obama has preferred covert action over large, conventional campaigns.


    But that said, it says right in the article that Russia helped broker the deal. Assad was a satellite state for Russia back then as he was now. It doesn't take a genius to figure out where Russia stood on the prospect of a US invasion to topple their puppet dictator.

  11. #3786
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Also the corn wore it better.
    Mwahahahaaaaa




    And to Renz and dema, who I understand to be pretty staunch democrats around here, I obviously dont care for Schumer. OK. Its nothing personal, its just that I watch both sides, carefully, everyday, and I get tired of watching this poor guy put SO much into everything, where he doesnt really need to.

    However, while sitting through the bulk of the debates surrounding this latest health care vote, there *were* a couple times in there, where Schumer actually, half-jokingly, suggested the very thing that I want! Something to the effect of "let us democrats take the plan then, and go back and fix it, and bring it to you".

    Of course, that idea was never meant to be taken seriously for one second, more to get a devilish laugh as a last resort, in the midst of heated battle! HOWEVER, what he briefly proposed is the very answer to our dem/repub problems in this country, if only it wasnt a joke to even mention it.

    Well, I had compassion on Mr. Schumer in those few fleeting moments, where he showed a genuine, truly hopeful side of himself. It quickly crumbled of course, by the end, when we was telling *all* democrats to please, please vote NO.

    It would be awesome to see the dems/repubs come together. I know I know...

  12. #3787
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    I worked for the Republican House Majority Leader Dick Armey in '98, meng, the guy that selected George W to be the pres. GOP nominee back when they could still do that. If I've been rooted out, it's not my fault the GOP is imploding. It's true the Dems have shifted so far right they're getting into my centrist friendly zone (not Bernie bros though), but they don't feel like home, except maybe in the Dixiecrat sense my southern grandparents liked them for electrifying the countryside.

    In fact I've been meaning to start my own center right party. Can't call it Liberal Democrats like in the UK, although that's the analog. Maybe revive the Federalists? But colliquially it'd be the Bull Rhinos, channeling TR and flipping the insult into a strength.

    As for the parties working together, the quote for today was that Trump was elected to rebuke the establishment, not be competant. So voters are getting exactly what they voted for. He only has one job, and that's to insist on disfunction and terrible policy to spite the elites. That's not compatible with a working relationship with the enemy, who can't share his goal.

  13. #3788
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I think the Federalist brand has already been taken, Dema. Though contrary to the name and history behind it, they're another small government libertarian outfit.

  14. #3789
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Yes but they're also full of establishment RINOs. In New York they're the Wall Street types, some of whom have college degrees and their head wrapped around the 21st Century. Granted though, the GOP needs to get grounded in today's reality, globalization, climate change, etc., and the old style patrician style leadership a la Bush I would be better for it, where you have sound regulation when it's prudent. Speaking of which "wouldn't be prudent" has to be my favorite political slogan, and where did that disappear to? The Federalists crowd would need to be pushed (back) in that direction. But I'd grant they're not there now, and might admit like-minded folks are more likely centrist Dems.

  15. #3790
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Besides Agent Orange giving up without a fight after 60 days, many of them playing golf, the Republican congress failed to pass the bill even though it meant effectively pulling the plug on the Trump presidency. I think this the first time that a newly elected president's critical first piece of legislation has been squashed by a (putatively) friendly congress, the first time that Congress has failed to hold its nose and vote to support their own president in his first kiss. Threw Trump under his campaign bus.


  16. #3791
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Why you shouldn't trust legacy media to report on tech stories:

    https://medium.com/@jeffreycarr/the-...02d#.wv4s27mb9

  17. #3792
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    as the intelligence apparatus largely hates Trump.
    Yes.
    But I don't think it's a good thing.....

    'cause you know, childs (Trump) are irrationally vindictive.

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