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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

98. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    18 18.37%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    27 27.55%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    43 43.88%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    0 0%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    10 10.20%

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #5476
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Indeed. Come the Robot Revolution, meat-puppet care will be irrelevant.

    Nice redirect there, Vae. Even if it doesn't follow that decentralised authority will necessarily lead to a broad spectrum of healthcare expectations or methods of delivery and financing.

  2. #5477
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    My dreams of a centralized health care mandate are wonderfully fulfilled in Japan. I got food poisoned, passed out in Shinjuku station. They put me on an ambulance, gave me a few day's worth of some medicine, stuck me with some IV to rehydrate me over an hour: altogether $35 after insurance. And the insurance is $40 to $70/month. So whatever your argument is, it pales in comparison to reality.

    This thread can hardly keep up with everything, paraphrasing here:
    - there was the "I'm the best president since Abraham Lincoln" speech,
    - the "who the hell talks about politics to the boy scouts? But if we don't kill this horrible thing Obamacare I'm going to say Tom your fired" completely political speech to the boy scouts that has nothing to do with scouting,
    - there's the "immigration enforcement is great, they're rough. If I were police arresting an immigrant, I wouldn't use my hand to protect their head when putting them in the car. Just let their head hit the door. Rough 'em up a little" speech to the police. That same police dept puts out a statement shortly thereafter that under no circumstances will it tolerate violations of its rules on treatment of arrested persons and it takes such violations very seriously.
    - the "Reince is a fucking paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac" and "I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own cock" briefing given by Trump's communications director Tony Mooch to the press, that makes the infighting in Hitler's inner circle look tame.
    - Speaking of which, the firing of "Rinse Penis" & the ousting of his cohorts (Spicer) with the incoming of Tony the Mooch.
    - puts out a statement on the Russia sanctions bill today with a concession, appearing to be aimed at Russia, that he did the best he could to water the bill down by negotiations as much as possible, and he hopes Russia is satisfied that there was at least some "responsiveness to his negotiations". In the context this is happening and his utter inability to be subtle about any inside intrigue ("I hope Russia hacks her emails"), it's hard to avoid that interpretation.
    - oops forgot one. Trump attempts to ban transgenders from the military on the anniversary of Truman integrating the military just because liberal tears or whatever, even though the President doesn't have that power & the generals ("my generals") whom he said instructed him to do it said it'll never happen and they support transgender soldiers like any patriotic person fighting for their country. Then Trump's draft dodging form gets leaked.

    Still just the tip of the iceberg just for this last week.
    Last edited by demagogue; 29th Jul 2017 at 02:23.

  3. #5478

  4. #5479
    Registered: May 2004
    So, the problem with the police in the US is that they're too nice?

  5. #5480
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    On my list, but anyway that story needs to have this attached:

    The police department in the New York county where President Donald Trump appeared to advocate rougher treatment of suspects is condemning the practice.

    The Suffolk County Police Department says it has strict rules and procedures for how prisoners should be handled. It says violations of those rules and procedures are treated “extremely seriously.”

    The police department added: “We do not and will not tolerate roughing up of prisoners.”

    It released the statement after Trump spoke at Suffolk County Community College about efforts to crack down on illegal immigration and violent crime, including by the MS-13 street gang.

    During the speech, Trump spoke dismissively of the police practice of protecting suspects’ heads while putting them in patrol cars.
    The guy can hardly give a single speech without being humiliated by his own audience.
    Eagle scouts going on about Trump pissing on scout values.
    Generals going on about the patriotism of transgenders.

    Edit: There was also this great quote today --

    “I think any observer -- including one that did not speak English and knew nothing about politics and came from another planet and solar system -- could, after observing the situation in the White House, realize the White House is failing,” said one informal White House adviser, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share a candid assessment.
    Said in the context of Preibus's firing & the struggle to bring any semblance of order to that disaster house when the one obvious and necessary thing you need to change immediately (it's the president, stupid) you can't.
    Last edited by demagogue; 29th Jul 2017 at 08:07.

  6. #5481
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    My dreams of a centralized health care mandate are wonderfully fulfilled in Japan. I got food poisoned, passed out in Shinjuku station. They put me on an ambulance, gave me a few day's worth of some medicine, stuck me with some IV to rehydrate me over an hour: altogether $35 after insurance. And the insurance is $40 to $70/month. So whatever your argument is, it pales in comparison to reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abysmal View Post
    Centralized health care in developed Asia is awesome. NHI here in Taiwan costs $25 a month, and even the uninsured prices are lower than insured prices in the US. No drop in quality either. It's what sanity looks like.
    Obviously, insurance doesn't really cost $25 or $70/month. That's just the token fee they're asking you to contribute. It's a single-payer system, so most of the cost is paid through taxes.

    I'm curious about the uninsured prices though. When I was living out of the US, I was on a "global plan", and the way it worked was that anything that didn't require a hospital admission I would pay out of pocket, at full price, and then get reimbursed. I was shocked at the full prices I was paying in Australia compared to the full prices people are asked to pay in the US for the same care. And costs in the US have grown dramatically since then. In the US, the prices paid to the provider, either by the insurance company or the government, are completely out of control and out of whack with the rest of the world. Of course, a lot of the rest of the world is struggling with health care cost growth too, but the problem in the US is really acute.

  7. #5482
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Regarding the White House, you can take Trump out of reality TV, but you can't take the reality TV star out of Trump.

  8. #5483
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Taxes are higher in Japan (I guess; I don't actually remember the US being all that better, but it is on paper), but we get paid more, and things like rent and food are comparable or cheaper. And you have a lot of peace of mind here. I don't feel it pinching any more than in the US.

    There's also something to be said for incentives. People should have an incentive, when they get a little queezy, to just go to the doctor and get issues solved early, which is absolutely the incentive here. The incentive when you worry about costs & feel even insurance will only cover a little bit of it, the incentive I always felt in the US, is just let the little things slide, which increases the chance of bigger illnesses and is a bigger drain on being well (personally) and on the economy (nationally) in the end.

    I have always had the impression high health care costs in the US are mostly due to risk, which is due to the fact financing options are so fragmented and can vary across cases and regions so dramatically. So you can't get economies of scale and there's inherent uncertainty and risk about the costs of future cases. There was a good Forbes article on this recently

    It made the case that single payer isn't even the core of the issue; it's single pricing, a single, rational system which drops the risk & fragmentation. It's just ... if you were going to have a single-pricing system, you'd already be over the major hurdle and source of opposition that's in the way of single payer, so you might as well also have the largest pool of payers you could get to drop prices the most. One of the big argument against single payer, at least next to the mandate part, was that people wanted to fragment options & give people a "choice".


    Edit: I just thought of that "It's the president, stupid" comment on the fly in my last post, but that's suddenly my favorite summation of this yucksterfuck. Trump can completely change over his staff as many times as he likes, fire every alleged leak, change his strategy towards congress and get as many loyal allies stuffed into as many places in government as possible... He has a fawning majority constituency that will let him get away with murder. He can do anything he likes. And everything is still in disarray for that one simple reason, with that one simple solution that solves all our problems dude.
    Last edited by demagogue; 29th Jul 2017 at 09:57.

  9. #5484
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands
    I think the litigious culture in the USA is also to blame for high costs of health care. Doctors and hospitals are continually being sued for enormous, ridiculous amounts. Like you were given CPR and got a few ribs broken? Sue that bastard!

    Someone has to pay for that. Where I live this is far less common, and if it does happen the amounts of money being asked for are far more on the reasonable side. Even then, you can ask for whatever you want and get a lawyer to argue your case, but the judges aren't going to award you with millions for minor medical errors with limited consequences.
    Last edited by Harvester; 29th Jul 2017 at 10:39.

  10. #5485
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvester View Post
    I think the litigious culture in the USA is also to blame for high costs of health care. Doctors and hospitals are continually being sued for enormous, ridiculous amounts. Like you were given CPR and got a few ribs broken? Sue that bastard!

    Someone has to pay for that. Where I live this is far less common, and if it does happen the amounts of money being asked for are far more on the reasonable side. Even then, you can ask for whatever you want and get a lawyer to argue your case, but the judges aren't going to award you with millions for minor medical errors with limited consequences.

    Partially, but it's not that simple.

    If anyone is complaining about the health care issue, but doesn't know what a "Pharmacy Benefit Manager" is, how Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients fit into the whole picture, or who the "Big 3" are then I would say that person doesn't know enough to be qualified to comment on why American health care is so messed up.

    This is, as I have stated, far too simple to put it this way, but the most accurate statement I can make in a short space is that the biggest problem with American healthcare is that there are entirely too many middlemen. There's as many as three ( can be a much higher number) separate middlemen between the people who make drugs and/or provide medical services and the bill you receive in the mail.

    The big news today is of course that the repeal bill for the healthcare act (ACA) failed the Senate and McCain was the deciding clutch vote. Future historians are probably going to look back on the ACA and note two giant Senators, both falling to brain tumors, one of whom helped create it, in the case of Teddy Kennedy, and the other preserve it, John McCain, as their final great acts.

    He didn't do it as a "final great act" and I do not believe that McCain did that out of the goodness of his heart. Republicans protect Obamacare because they're PAID TO.

    Besides which, it's utterly ludicrous to ascribe the slightest bit of altruism to John McCain
    . In high school he had a reputation for a ferocious temper and being a ruthless, vindictive, nasty bully. One his more famous comments is saying that Chelsea was so ugly because Janet Reno was her father. He says things to his OWN WIFE like"At least I don’t plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt.” (in the article, actual quote). The amount of racism in voting that people THINK Jeff Sessions had is what John McCain actually has.

    And this doesn't even get into his war policy. Hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result of policies that he helped engineer, and millions more have had their homes and lives destroyed. He regularly cozies up to some of the world's most atrocious dictators (people who make Assad look like a boy scout), and in spite of knowing full well the results of policies has continued to argue in favor of almost every potential invasion even singing "Bomb Bomb Iran!" on national television.

    McCain is one of the single most vile human beings currently living on this earth and it is absolute insanity to think that he cares about what's best for you or your healthcare.


    There's another interview out that confirms some things I've been saying for months about the GOP.

    Remember when I said, months ago, that the GOP doesn't actually want a repeal, isn't against immigration, and thinks that the whole Trump thing is just a populist tantrum that will blow over the moment they get rid of Trump?

    Turns out my comments were a 100% accurate summation of how the GOP actually is, as described by Tom Cantor in a new interview:

    Have I made it clear at this point how much I despise the GOP?

    Small victory overall. While the ACA is greatly preferable to what the Republicans wanted to implement, the fervor surrounding it's repeal has distracted from the fact that the ACA is still a half-assed solution to a very large problem. As is, Obamacare is a massive burden on the lower middle class, who are being forced to pay far too much into a system where costs are very quickly spiraling out of control.

    It's better than nothing, but far from being all around excellent. The ACA needs a ton of work before it could be considered future proofed.
    That's.....kind of what I've been saying all along about it being a massive burden and unsustainable.

    Treating it more like a public utility would probably be a better solution but here's the other concern: what is happening with the Trump/Transgender/military issue is a GREAT illustration of the pitfall with a single payer system. The military's TRICARE system is, for all intents and purposes, run exactly the same way as the healthcare system that single payer proponents advocate. If you're on active duty you have a single healthcare provider (TRICARE) and all appointments/referalls are paid for by that provider with your assigned provider (usually an active duty officer holding the rank of Major in the medical branch of your service).

    Here's the problem: When they're paying for it, THEY get to decide what they're going to pay for, not you. There's absolutely no guarantee that it's going to cover your needs or even that their policies are going to be in the real of sanity. Because these policies are controlled by bureaucratic executive branch agencies, that means that you have ZERO recourse when they decide to stop covering something that applies to you.

    I don't know how to reconcile the two problems. A single payer system would help address the "too many middlemen" problem but also means that you risk having Trump or someone like him setting the policies of what does and does not get covered.......and given that the current generation of early adolescents is now growing up in an age where the cool and edgy figures are ideologically aligned with the alt-right we shouldn't assume that what gets covered under a single payer system is always going to include hotbutton items like contraceptives.

    New Tweet:

    If a new HealthCare Bill is not approved quickly, BAILOUTS for Insurance Companies and BAILOUTS for Members of Congress will end very soon!
    Seems he's actually on the same page and is threatening what I've suggested.

    And....because Obama put those things in place in a manner that completely circumvented the legislative branch, there's jack shit that anyone can do about it if Trump cuts those subsidies. As I said, the smartest thing for him to do politically would be to let the issue lie and enforce Obamacare according to the exact text of the law with zero additional subsidies or enforcement delays
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 29th Jul 2017 at 15:26.

  11. #5486
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Anthony "Th' Mooch" Scaramucci
    July 21 - 31
    "He stabbed with the best of them."

  12. #5487
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    They should just drop the pretext and start streaming cameras in every room of the White House, and have camera men always following BLOTUS and crew. The only redeeming thing coming out of this is the TV show*, and better they just film it themselves than have to wait for the Showtime version.

    * That's actually not going to be redeeming either since this isn't even particularly funny or clever. But, you know, in relative terms it's the only thing one can hope for.

  13. #5488
    Registered: May 2004
    Oh, come on, it's pretty funny. At least if you're not from or in or near the US. There's an entire genre dedicated to this type of comedy:
    Last edited by Starker; 1st Aug 2017 at 01:12.

  14. #5489
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    That orange tyrannical Russian-colluding Nazi is goin' down!...

    We know this cuz TV told us so!...

  15. #5490
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Don't need The Liberal Biased Media to tell us that Trump is killing friends and making enemies like he has no tomorrow. John Kelly is Trump's last hope to bring order to the White House and how likely is that Trump will listen to him for more than a day or two?

    Meanwhile the noose is tightening.

    And hey, if Trump wants to kick Alaska out of the union, we will welcome them. Unless he gives it back to the Russians first of course.

  16. #5491
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    Okay, I'm a little confused here. First we hear that the Mooch resigned, then we hear that Drumpf fired him, next we hear that it was Kelly who did the firing (and that Scaramucci had to be physically escorted from the White House, which I would have paid to see! lol). Just another indication of the chaos that reigns in our W.H. currently, obviously. And Kelly seems to think that he can singlehandedly whip the W.H. staff into shape and replace that chaos with reason and sanity?? Yeah, good luck with that, sir!! First of all, Herr Drumpf does NOT like taking advice from ANYONE (well, except maybe his bff, Vlad) and Kelly is used to ordering people to 'Jump' and hearing them ask 'How high?' on their way up. Secondly, absolutely no one in the W.H. will listen to Kelly since they're all pursuing their own agendas, ergo the reigning chaos. And third, though Kelly was fully aware upon accepting the appointment how much of a nutjob Drumpf is and what a circus the W.H. had become, he obviously hasn't realized yet that trying to instill order and structure in the W.H. will be a lesson in futility .... like trying to herd cats.

    Frankly, I'm wondering why Ret. Gen. Kelly accepted the appointment in the first place? He's on record as having threatened to quit his job as head of Homeland Security when Drumpf fired Comey. So why on earth would he accept a position that will only become a study in frustration for him? And meanwhile, the circus that was once our government continues. I never liked circuses.

  17. #5492
    Registered: May 2004
    I for one am sad Mooch was taken off air so soon. I mean, the guy's name is Scaramucci -- the whole thing could hardly get any funnier.

  18. #5493
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: I think I've been here
    He never even got a chance to do the Fandango.

  19. #5494
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    There was a little fandangoing on.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #5495
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: I think I've been here
    I'll just leave this here: The limits of tolerance

  21. #5496
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    Trump dreading performance review with Putin after signing Russia sanctions

    "Oh boy, Mr. Putin is not gonna like this," sighed the head of state for the entire United States Government. While denying reports that Putin ordered a coordinated campaign of hacking and misinformation aimed at getting him elected president, Trump glumly boarded Air Force One to fly to Moscow for the quarterly employee/ employer meeting.

  22. #5497
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea

    Dammit, Jim!...You need to remember to pretend to be an objective journalist, so that CNN can continue to "tighten the noose" around that orange xenophobe!...
    Last edited by Vae; 2nd Aug 2017 at 20:55.

  23. #5498

  24. #5499
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Chicago, IL
    Good to finally see some baby steps on reducing immigration.

  25. #5500
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: I think I've been here

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