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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
79. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    16 20.25%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    19 24.05%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    37 46.84%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    0 0%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    7 8.86%
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Results 5,826 to 5,837 of 5837

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #5826
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Wild conspiracy and basic tribalism are quickly coming to replace rational discourse. Uncertain times are fertile ground for paranoia and extremism, which, for those willing to take advantage of it, is quite politically expedient.

  2. #5827
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Meanwhile, Trumps campaign manager, Paul Manafort was offering private briefings on the Presidential Election, to Russian billionaire and Putin insider, Oleg Deripaska.

    Now Trump and Pence are pretending they hardly know Manafort. It is hard to fathom how even the most devoted Trumpette, can continue to deny criminal goings on, in and around the Trump administration, from the Cheeto in Chief on down.

    Like Seth Meyers said... "If you can't connect the dots at this point, it's because the dots are too fucking close together."

    Seriously, Goldy, you want to talk conspiracy? How about the blatantly obvious and factually well supported one you have been denying for months now?
    Last edited by Nicker; 23rd Sep 2017 at 01:08.

  3. #5828
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I'm still saying you shouldn't hold your breath for an impeachment hearing. From what's been made public, there's plenty to believe that Trump chose to surround himself with quite a few suspect people, and at the very least turned a blind eye towards their actions and activities. But as far as Trump himself is concerned, there isn't much directly pointing to him. Trump Jr. first lying about, then later confessing to a meeting with that Russian diplomat concerning allegedly damning evidence against Clinton (which wasn't all that good, per his own admission) is about the worst we've seen thus far. That falls well short of meeting the standards for collusion, and since he wasn't (as far as I know) under oath when he made that initial lie, it can't be held against him in court.

    The only thing we can currently say for a fact is that either Trump didn't know what he allowed himself to sink into during his campaign for the presidency, which would make him look incredibly stupid (though ultimately innocent), or he did know, but was wise enough to keep himself distanced from it all so that he can still lean on plausible deniability.

  4. #5829
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Nothing is true; everything is permitted.

    Also, what standards for collusion?

  5. #5830
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    Its not really me saying it anymore, I have mostly given up, but I see others are continually getting pissed about these vapor trails of yours
    These are the same people that get pissed off about vaccinations.

    Idiots.

    And you want to be one? You got your wish.

  6. #5831
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Also, what standards for collusion?
    For a collusion charge to stick, Trump and co. would not only had to have known the Russians were hacking their political opponents and spreading propaganda for their benefit, but also have been actively involved in the attempt. There'd have to be proof of constant communications between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin beyond politics as usual, evidence of a coordinated effort from both parties to commit conspiracy.

    Trump Jr.'s meeting with the Russian diplomats falls just short of that. It's suspicious as hell, especially considering everything going on around it, but it's also an isolated incident. Collusion is an ongoing thing.

    The best way to sum up that particular incident is to say that it's not as innocent as some claim it to be, nor as damning as others want it to be. It's potentially evidence of a wider conspiracy, but not a smoking gun in and of itself.

  7. #5832
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Renz... Presidents don't go down for committing illegal acts. They go down for covering them up.

  8. #5833
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    For a collusion charge to stick, Trump and co. would not only had to have known the Russians were hacking their political opponents and spreading propaganda for their benefit, but also have been actively involved in the attempt. There'd have to be proof of constant communications between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin beyond politics as usual, evidence of a coordinated effort from both parties to commit conspiracy.

    Trump Jr.'s meeting with the Russian diplomats falls just short of that. It's suspicious as hell, especially considering everything going on around it, but it's also an isolated incident. Collusion is an ongoing thing.

    The best way to sum up that particular incident is to say that it's not as innocent as some claim it to be, nor as damning as others want it to be. It's potentially evidence of a wider conspiracy, but not a smoking gun in and of itself.
    Um... I've looked into this and I can't find anything that says collusion is a crime (except in antitrust law in very specific cases). Though, as a layperson my understanding of US law is inadequate to say the least. From what I gather, what were possibly violated were election laws, but even then it depends on things like whether information can be considered to have value (in the sense of the relevant statutes).

    The way I see it, collusion definitely happened, it just isn't illegal.

  9. #5834
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Collusion may not be specifically a crime but the things one does in order to collude and the benefits one gets from colluding... those may well be criminal.

    Mueller isn't investigating collusion. He's investigating the other stuff resulting from the collusion.

  10. #5835
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Fuckin' !Trump Dump!










  11. #5836
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    Collusion may not be specifically a crime but the things one does in order to collude and the benefits one gets from colluding... those may well be criminal.

    Mueller isn't investigating collusion. He's investigating the other stuff resulting from the collusion.
    Right, it's not the nebulous and legally undefined things like "collusion" that interest investigators, it's the concrete things that are definitely crimes, like lying on security forms.

  12. #5837
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Um... I've looked into this and I can't find anything that says collusion is a crime (except in antitrust law in very specific cases). Though, as a layperson my understanding of US law is inadequate to say the least. From what I gather, what were possibly violated were election laws, but even then it depends on things like whether information can be considered to have value (in the sense of the relevant statutes).

    The way I see it, collusion definitely happened, it just isn't illegal.
    The Trump campaign was free to discuss their various agendas with anyone they want, including foreign governments. Trump had every right to meet with all these Russian dignitaries to discuss what he intends to have happen if he wins the presidency. Provided the meetings were documented, and everything discussed was above board, it's perfectly legal.

    But to meet with Russian dignitaries to discuss ways to help them secretly influence the election in his favor? Yeah, that's a violation of election laws. If the Trump campaign knew the Russians were hacking into various Democrat's email server, and were more than happy to use the information gathered for their own benefit? That might open them up for some espionage charges.

    Though for the moment, all this is hearsay. There's tons upon tons of circumstantial evidence lying about. Plenty of lies, misdirections, undocumented meetings, too convenient parterships, and whatnot. That's enough to suggest a motive, and justify an investigation, but nothing yet that screams THEY'RE GUILTY! Suspicious circumstances are just that until proven otherwise, and they'll have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker
    Mueller isn't investigating collusion. He's investigating the other stuff resulting from the collusion.
    I think he still might be investigating collusion, though he's also looking for evidence of obstruction of justice.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 23rd Sep 2017 at 23:51.

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