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View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
85. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    17 20.00%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    21 24.71%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    39 45.88%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    0 0%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    8 9.41%
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Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #6101
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    You tell me. You supported the exact same concept when Obama proposed giving money directly to the rich, corporations,and the banks via "stimulus" and "bailout".
    You know better than this. Bush began the bank bailouts and Obama continued them because to not do so was economic suicide at that time. The money given to the automotive and banking industries was paid back with interest and the stimulus was for things like first time home buyers to stimulate the housing market and slowly all this worked. The deficit was even being reigned in before this latest crap which overwhelmingly favors the wealthy and you know it. Seriously? What? You expect we all forget after a few years? You think we can't see what is in front of our eyes now? What the hell? Exactly how stupid do you think we are? Are republicans so used to fooling rednecks in their party that you think you can pull that shit with us?

  2. #6102
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Not satisfied with freshly fucking over the USA, the Orange Baboon throws gasoline on the faint possibility of peace in the middle east.

    Decades of careful efforts in world peace, environmentalism, public health, income equality, science, human decency - undone by a single, demented narcissist, with the gold-encrusted fists of a few kleptocrats shoved up his capacious arse and operating his foul, lying mouth.
    Last edited by Nicker; 5th Dec 2017 at 16:09.

  3. #6103
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Well, at least some people are happy:



    Seriously, he's even holding up his pinky.

  4. #6104
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen

  5. #6105
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen


    Next piece of the puzzle, the STORM is coming soon! Hurrah for the good people of this world.

  6. #6106
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    "The President's decision is an important step towards peace ...". In other words, expect more riots, bombings, shootings, etc. in that city after this. So much peace I can hardly stand it. Oh, and btw, this article had me nearly peeing my pants (the beaverton: in before the Onion):

    https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/12...s-part-mexico/

    (Lmao!)

  7. #6107
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    A horrible decision, but at least we can stop pretending the US is an impartial peace broker. It's time for somebody else to mediate, who isn't so influenced by a pro-Israel lobby.

  8. #6108
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    "We have achieved an unprecedented level of peace in the Middle East. We've convinced them to despise us more than each other."

  9. #6109
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    If he had also said and east Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine I might have admired the balls of it. It might be a kick in the pants to both to just draw a damn line already. As it is it's just a sop for his evangelical base that would as soon cause armageddon so they can see Jesus. I kind of want them to see him too. Somebody is in for a big surprise. I just don't want them taking the rest of us with them.

  10. #6110
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Someone should make a version of "Left Behind" where all the believers are sucked up in a Rapture, and the world is far better for it.

  11. #6111
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    There would certainly be less hypocrisy. Nothing left but us honest devils then.

    Damn I would like to read that. Get on that ASAP will you Pyrian?

  12. #6112
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    A more truer version of the story would be about a bunch of hardcore evangelical Trump voters who live through the Rapture, and find themselves totally shocked that they were Left Behind. They end up coming to the conclusion that the only reason they didn't gain God's favor is because they weren't big enough assholes, and end up accidentally ushering in the end of the world after trying to lynch Jesus, because they didn't take too kindly to some uppity commie dune coon running around telling them they're not living right.

  13. #6113
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    It's times like this that the forum needs a Like button.

  14. #6114
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Seriously. Why in hell aren't you two writing this? I would buy twenty copies to hand out as Christmas gifts.

  15. #6115
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    That's better than my idea, which is to nuke the Holy City into a glowing puddle of radioactive glass and tell the contenders... "There! Now nobody can have it."

  16. #6116
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    *Anything* is better than that idea.

    How about this, lets pull out of there and just let it be, lets focus on our own countries.

  17. #6117
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Trump? Honestly I'd rather he was focused on the Middle East. If he's going to make a mess, he might as well start somewhere already messy.

  18. #6118
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I'd rather he not be. Crappy tax plans, and poorly thought out executive orders can be rolled back fairly quicklike, with only a minimal amount of damage done. The insult done to our allies can be forgiven once the next president arrives. Fucking around in the Middle East will only serve to net us problems that'll take decades and spilled blood to solve.

  19. #6119
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Crappy tax plans, and poorly thought out executive orders can be rolled back fairly quicklike...
    I'm not so confident of any of that. The democrats are unlikely to get the Senate in 2018, and 2020+ is a crap shoot. The Republicans are continually determined, however bumbling, to roll back assistance to the poor, and deliver ever more money to the wealthy. The former is going to get a lot of people killed, the latter is a snowball effect where wealthy oligarchic donors just have more money to corrupt the process. And then there'll presumably be another big economic crash, doing real damage to livelihoods worldwide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Fucking around in the Middle East will only serve to net us problems that'll take decades and spilled blood to solve.
    "net"? For it to "net" us problems, it has to be worse than the default, and what we've been doing so far has, err how should I put it, not been generating progress.

  20. #6120
    Eh. Maybe so, but it's funny you use that as your example when I am citing a guy who was notoriously bullish on Gold and managed to call the support level for Gold pretty accurately. Armstrong actually is an economist, and one of the ones with the best forecasting record in the business, hence the reason I cite him. He was calling for indexes to break away to 23,00 and beyond (23,700 is a key target number) this time last year when most of the rest of the field was predicting that we'd be in a depression by this time due to how much of a disaster Trump was going to be.

    And no, example doesn't mean too much to me. Americans in general have a very poor understanding of currency due to not having to ever deal with it aside from Airport FX kiosks. Only with that poor understanding of currency is it possible to seriously believe in Goldbuggery. Gold is a commodity asset exactly like any other and should be analyzed similarly.

    Anyway another link: point of this isn't so much an "I told you so" but more to illustrate that there's some areas where I know damn well what I'm talking about. This column is phrased much more PC but read what he's saying closely and you'll see some of same things being said that I did when assessing US military capabilities. Most notably he points out that US military superiority in these conflicts is based on the spurious assumption that the US will have air and EW superiority.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/09/us-c...arns-rand.html



    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    I'd rather he not be. Crappy tax plans, and poorly thought out executive orders can be rolled back fairly quicklike, with only a minimal amount of damage done. The insult done to our allies can be forgiven once the next president arrives. Fucking around in the Middle East will only serve to net us problems that'll take decades and spilled blood to solve.
    Sheesh...you guys have an incredibly short memory. This unconditional support for Israel isn't something uniquely horrible to Trump, it's part and parcel of US foreign policy for the last three decades at least. To me it's a bit telling that the worst aspect of Trump's presidency is the one where he's been the most consistent with establishment neocon policy objectives.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-0...usalem/9234736

    It goes a lot deeper than rhetoric as well, if you look at the sum total of US arms trading/trafficking and military activity in the region whether covert or public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post
    You know better than this. Bush began the bank bailouts and Obama continued them because to not do so was economic suicide at that time. The money given to the automotive and banking industries was paid back with interest and the stimulus was for things like first time home buyers to stimulate the housing market and slowly all this worked. The deficit was even being reigned in before this latest crap which overwhelmingly favors the wealthy and you know it. Seriously? What? You expect we all forget after a few years? You think we can't see what is in front of our eyes now? What the hell? Exactly how stupid do you think we are? Are republicans so used to fooling rednecks in their party that you think you can pull that shit with us?
    No, that's complete bullshit that the economy was going to implode immediately if we didn't do that. I haven't googled this now but if you look around there's an article written by a former IMF official who explains exactly why. TLDR version (i'm going off of old memory here) is that they could very easily have managed this in party by restructuring those large bank's operating divisions into a number of smaller shops which not only would have significantly reduced the "giving money to the rich" aspect of it but eliminated too big to fail banks as well as their corrupting influence on politics.

    And let's be real here. Governments around the globe borrow every single year with absolutely no intention of ever paying off their national debts. So what is the difference? If you think giving the money back to the people is wrong and it is better going out the back door for political contributions, then sorry, I oppose that.

    Here's a radical new idea: it's entirely possible to have ZERO income taxes. Not only did Rome do that for the first 500 years of its existence (they just printed what was needed) with minimal inflation as a result, but the United States had zero income taxes and only indirect taxes up until 1913.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 9th Dec 2017 at 21:11.

  21. #6121
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Here's a radical new idea: it's entirely possible to have ZERO income taxes. Not only did Rome do that for the first 500 years of its existence (they just printed what was needed) with minimal inflation as a result, but the United States had zero income taxes and only indirect taxes up until 1913.
    I want to respond to the rest in time, but I gotta address this...

    Rome didn't need income taxes during its first 500 years because they had slave labor doing all the heavy lifting. Having a work force that doesn't have any other choice but to work for free is an incredible cost saver.

  22. #6122
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    No, that's complete bullshit that the economy was going to implode immediately if we didn't do that. I haven't googled this now but if you look around there's an article written by a former IMF official who explains exactly why. TLDR version (i'm going off of old memory here) is that they could very easily have managed this in party by restructuring those large bank's operating divisions into a number of smaller shops which not only would have significantly reduced the "giving money to the rich" aspect of it but eliminated too big to fail banks as well as their corrupting influence on politics.

    And let's be real here. Governments around the globe borrow every single year with absolutely no intention of ever paying off their national debts. So what is the difference? If you think giving the money back to the people is wrong and it is better going out the back door for political contributions, then sorry, I oppose that.

    Here's a radical new idea: it's entirely possible to have ZERO income taxes. Not only did Rome do that for the first 500 years of its existence (they just printed what was needed) with minimal inflation as a result, but the United States had zero income taxes and only indirect taxes up until 1913.
    I'm not going to go into a lot of detail because it would be wasted on you but we DID go into a worldwide recession and if there was no bail out it would be much worse. Warren was for what you say and so were a lot of other democrats but only after the crisis was over which is the way to do that and not stir in some gasoline and hope it doesn't explode during the worst part.

    Also LOL about Rome. The currency they printed was on gold and silver during that period. Think about that. They were capturing a lot of territory and taking a lot of that in. I don't think that is a good plan for the US. Neither is a basket of carrots to the rich and no stick to make them do right. They won't. They will do what is best for THEM with this windfall. You seriously think increasing the debt so much to line the pockets of the rich will make no difference? Nevermind. I don't want to even hear the bullshit. It has already been pointed out the small amount to the middle will end soon and that will be the only benefit to the economy because that section will spend the money and help the economy. The rich won't.

  23. #6123
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Yup. Roman success was based on EXPANSION. When the empire stopped expanding, it eventually collapsed. Similarly the Colonial and Industrial booms were based on human then machine slavery and the expansion of markets and commodity supply. Also on the apparent ability of the earth to absorb the ever increasing effluent of more people and more manufacturing.

    Today our economies are still based on expansion but are reaching the limit of available raw materials, markets for goods and the ability of the environment to absorb our total effluent. For example, to sustain auto manufacturing at current levels, people in the developed world need to buy a brand new car about every 7 to 9 years, easily two to three times the useful life of a car.

    But investors expect constant and significant increases in return on investment so companies resort to generating demand, deferring costs but environmental dumping or offloading manufacture to unregulated economies or creating illusory by creative bookkeeping. None of these are sustainable.

    And yeah, as the options for extracting profit from new markets, new commodity sources and slave populations decreases, the impetus for the rich to start robbing their fellow citizens increases. Which is precisely what we are seeing.

    Unless we can develop models for steady-state economies, based on zero expansion, minimal return on investment and stable populations, we are going to hit a very big wall... a yuge wall.

  24. #6124
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Sheesh...you guys have an incredibly short memory. This unconditional support for Israel isn't something uniquely horrible to Trump, it's part and parcel of US foreign policy for the last three decades at least. To me it's a bit telling that the worst aspect of Trump's presidency is the one where he's been the most consistent with establishment neocon policy objectives.
    Sheesh... you don't know much about negotiating. Demand more than you need then settle for what you wanted, thus appearing conciliatory.

    Talking tough and supporting the "right" of Israel to claim Jerusalem has been the past policy. Never acting on this has also been past policy because to actually act on it would cause an unnecessary descent into worse violence.

    All Trump has achieved is to further delay the eventual and inevitable, two state solution. Trump is a fucking idiot with no understanding of history, general or specific. Why are you still defending him?

  25. #6125
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Apparently, Obama has been the most conservative spender since Eisenhower: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...-barack-obama/


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