Well I'm glad that that's cleared up.
Well I'm glad that that's cleared up.
Anything after Plato's cave allegory can suck my balls!
I'm a huge fan of the original film, but I don't know how you can just dismiss the sequel. Both films are great to me, but IMO Aliens is the better movie.
I dont get why people get so grrr about it.
Terminator 2 did the same thing (taking a horror series and moving things in a more action direction) and yet you never hear people complaining about that. I for one am a fan of the first more than the sequel of that but im still fine with the second.
Alien used a B movie subject and came out as a work of art. Terminator was just a B movie.
Don't agree at all. Total masterpiece.
I dare you to watch Alien and Terminator today and tell me they hold up equally well.
IIRC Terminator starts with some goofy robo tanks rolling over human skulls. That was a tired symbol even then. You won't find a lapse like that in Alien.
But anyway, you asked why some people have a problem with Aliens, whereas Terminator 2 was universally beloved. And I named a reason. This has nothing to do with whether you or I liked Terminator. I liked it as much as any kid.
I realize everyone has different tastes, but IMHO Terminator is just an above average popcorn flick that has trouble standing out in the sea of 80s action movies. I wouldn't even rate in the top three Schwarzenegger movies.
Alien is the standout film of its genre and a genuine classic.
The alien was designed by one of the wierdest surrealists of the last millennia. The terminator is a big metal skeleton with a gun.
Alien holds up a little better, but I still view Terminator as a classic, at least in the Sci Fi field. It suffers a bit because of the 80s fashions (Linda Hamilton's hair, dance club scene) and because it was more driven by special effects (which of course look horribly dated now). But it's definitely a landmark film, and I wouldn't compare it to other 80s B movie stuff like Commando or Escape From New York or Scanners (I like those movies too, but not in the same way).
So where does the original Predator stand in all this? Another fun movie, but undoubtedly a level or three below the two movies being discussed.
Last edited by Brethren; 15th Mar 2017 at 10:28.
I have a particular fondness for Predator. I certainly prefer it over Terminator 1 or Alien 1, but I'm not a big "horror" guy anyway; those movies fall a bit flat for me. An alien species whose cultural predilections not only exist, but are actually crucial to the plot? Heck yeah. I like the fact that their technology is just "good" - he's hard to see, not invisible. "If it bleeds, we can kill it." I dunno, the whole thing feels more grounded and less "magical" than the others. I mean, I like the big industrial space freighter and the android, but the Alien itself doesn't seem fussed with any basic laws of physics/chemistry, and of course time travel is just kind of bleah in T1.
Slasher villains always wear something to hide their true face, but the Terminator wears an actual face to cover his artificial identity. And that as (at that point in time) it had not been done before made this movie very unique. Unlike your B movies with only half half plots, the Terminator's is fully fleshed out.
It also features fantastic scenes like the part at the bar, the police station shoot out, when he shows up at her place, the bit where she calls in to her parents hideaway cabin but the Terminator got their first and killed her parents and speaks with her mothers voice. Just a brilliant movie. And note that I re-watched this about 2 months ago. Still holds up. I'd also note to advise to be sure to watch a version with the original sound effects in there. In newer versions they fucked up the shotgun sound effects for some odd reason.
I far prefer it over Alien any day. That is just my opinion though. Note that I am a HUGE slasher horror fan, though this movie lacks some of that whilst having some of the other slasher aspects like seeing through his eyes, whilst seeing him talk as well (very uncommon in slashers besides Nightmare on Elm street) and unlike Alien you have stuff happening right from the get go, where as in Alien it's not until a fair bit in.
All that said, that is just my opinion. I'm not claiming I'm right, but just telling it as it is for me. And for me Terminator 1 is better.
If this was out of Terminator 2 and Aliens I'd have a very hard time picking which is the better flick. Both are fantastic equally in my eyes.
I just watched the opening to The Terminator on youtube. I'd say it's still a fairly powerful scene, even with special effects that are over 30 years old. I wouldn't dismiss it as just a bunch of goofy robo tanks by any means.
Any votes for Robocop?
I don't know, they all seem kind of pulpy action/horror movies to me in retrospect. I wouldn't really say any of them has more "class" than Robocop. And personally I prefer it that way.
Actually, let me go even further and throw in The Thing for good measure.
Btw, holy hell is Robocop violent. I had almost forgotten how brutal it is.
Last edited by Starker; 15th Mar 2017 at 14:17.
RoboCop is fucking rad. Way funnier and more subversive than alien or terminator or predator (which has literally zero subtext beyond sort or vague failure-of-masculine-ideal sort of shit). Paul Verhoven is safe.
Eh, Alien did a few things that the others didn't. While all of these movies succeed as entertainment, Alien manages to thread in reproduction as a weapon, structures an entire sequence (from the moment they enter the Space Jockey ship and you subconsciously realise they're descending through an alien womb, and they find the eggs, and later the alien erupts out of Kane's chest) as symbolic of a fertilisation cycle, rummages your psychology for an incredibly personal fear of your own body being violated (regardless of your gender), and puts all of this together with a slow, atmospheric buildup that plays each part against the other in a way that cumulatively magnifies all of them to very powerful effect. This is to say nothing of its bleak views on corpocracy or the ridiculous amount of skill with which every constituent part of it was constructed.
T1 was a pretty good genre hybrid of slasher movie plus science fiction-y elements, Predator was a decent survival romp, and Robocop did the corporate capitalism commentary with black humour well, but they're all adjuncts to the kind of movie Alien was. And I say this as someone who prefers both Aliens and Terminator 2 to either Alien or T1 because I'm an unabashed action movie fan.
Last edited by Sulphur; 15th Mar 2017 at 14:42.
Aside from a few duds, I would rate most of Schwarzenegger’s action movie output on the same level. I personally liked Predator, Total Recall, and T2 better than Terminator. Maybe even True Lies and Eraser. But I won’t argue that any one is objectively better than the other.
I didn’t think much of Robocop on first watch as a teenager, but I can appreciate it more now because the social commentary underlying the high concept is mostly still relevant. But it doesn’t really stand out in its genre. And it is undeniably 80s.
I don't understand how you can rate Alien 2 over Alien 1 though. Not even the same league IMO. But, just my 2c.
Alien is maybe more artsy and students would probably love to study it for their thesis, but if I'm going by which movie I've watched more often and just enjoyed more in general, it would have to be Aliens. Guess I can't say exactly why, because they are two very different films.
I did rewatch The Terminator a few nights ago after talking about it here, I still say it's a classic. I just can't give it B-movie status, it seems better than that. It's a fairly serious movie, with no camp or one liners (with one exception), but I suppose it depends on how you define B-movies.
There is actually a few memorable lines in The Terminator:
* Come with me if you want to live
* Fuck you asshole
* Your terminated
* Cop 1 - How do I look?
Cop 2 - Like shit boss
Cop 1 - Yo momma
* In technical terminology, he's a loon.
A few that spring to mind .
And it's definitely not a B movie. To call it B-Grade is an insult to the movie. B-Grade is Friday the 13th, Halloween, the later sequels to Nightmare on Elm Street (more so after the 3rd movie), Candyman etc etc.
Or for some sci-fi examples - Critters, the blob, Predator 2 (1st movie I wouldn't class as B-Grade), the last starfighter (good movie regardless). I was going to say The Thing, but that movie is just legendary.
Last edited by icemann; 17th Mar 2017 at 13:30.
Same feeling here. Hence why I love the sequel.
This is all opinion at the end of the day. 1 person will love A & C, another will love B & D.