TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 58

Thread: Make Thief great again

  1. #26
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    chk772: UW:A is not a Warren Spector game, and so far, his only role in it seems to be in an advisory capacity. Thankfully, most of it seems to be a Paul Neurath / Tim Stellmach design.

    In my opinion, UW:A will live or die by Otherside's commitment to deep environmental simulation: turning game physics into gameplay, and a living dungeon ecology. If they can deliver on these promises, that will be something that has never been done systematically in a non-indie computer RPG. It has been present as window dressing and in various scripted ways, but not in a thorough fashion allowing for emergent gameplay and interesting choices&consequences. Deep simulation and emergent gameplay are state of the art stuff, just not state of the art graphics. This is precisely the point: the game industry has neglected to develop outside graphical fidelity, and even regressed in comparison with early 1990s games. Ultima Underworld, for its relatively early 3d engine, holds up very well as a complex dungeon exploration experience, and is full of small features which are missing from modern CRPGs. The promise of building on that foundation and going forward is why I am a backer at the $100 tier - I would like to see that kind of innovation take off in CRPGs again.

    What does worry me is that while Otherside hyped these aspects of the game in their Kickstarter campaign, the recent campaign updates have been quiet about them, and instead focused on art direction, factions and (to a lesser extent) their love for the lizardmen language. Which was a fine piece of innovation - for 1991, in Underworld 1. It is possible the sim aspects are there, just not mentioned. Honestly, I am feeling they might have underestimated the budget they needed to realise their vision.

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Well, the next update should be about gameplay. Also, the vertical slice is close to finished, so we'll get to try the next iteration out ourselves.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Pennsylvania
    Anyone playing Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild? It trusts the player to be intelligent and figure things out, and it allows for a lot of creative problem-solving.

  4. #29
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    So what you're saying is... Nintendo should make the next Thief game?

    -It's-a me, Garrett!

    -Sorry Garrett, the loot is in another castle.


    (because I'd be completely fine with that.)

  5. #30
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    It's dangerous to go alone, take this blackjack.

    Seriously though, Weasel, that seemed like kind of a random comment. Care to expand on that?

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Pennsylvania
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    It's dangerous to go alone, take this blackjack.

    Seriously though, Weasel, that seemed like kind of a random comment. Care to expand on that?
    I guess it would have made sense to quote the things I was responding to. Earlier in the thread, people said:

    Quote Originally Posted by marbleman View Post
    To attract the "next generation of players," games have to be made simpler. Making a game like old-school Thief is not economically viable now.

    The only hope we have is modding. From the fans for the fans. Mad respect to all the FM authors who still create missions for a game that is more than 15 years old
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrebo6 View Post
    I think that most publishers just seem to really underestimate the new generation of gamers.
    ...
    Not every one under 30 is a complete moron that can't handle a game that does have all the action take place via a 3-second cutscene or press button to win with no complexity,boring level design and dumbed down mechanics.
    ...
    There are plenty of people out there who have no problem with that kind of complexity in their single player experiences.Look you are never going to draw in or keep the gamers with the attention spans of a gerbil who only play games like COD,Madden,other annually released generic schlock,or MLG types who only maybe multiplayer or MOBA's you are never gonna bring those people in.
    I just noticed that Maxrebo6 did mention Zelda briefly.

    My point is, I think there is hope that Thief can someday return as a game / franchise for intelligent players, with scenarios that make (or at least let) players use their brains to figure out how to accomplish their objectives. I know plenty of other games have been doing so along the way, but maybe if people see that Nintendo can do it with a franchise as big as Zelda, anyone can do it. (I still enjoyed them, but most of the recent Zelda games had been holding the players' hands too much.)

  7. #32
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-from-pc-games

    Edit: Oh, hey that was posted in the UW forum. I thought I saw it here somewhere.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2009
    Location: Pawtucket,Rhode Island
    The New Zelda is proof that game that don't think the player is a moron can and do work.I think Nintendo hit the sweet spot with Zelda and it shows why until recent years which including some stumbling on their part,why Nintendo was able to revive console gaming after the collapse and that they still know how to make great games.I think Zelda was in the sweet spot in not holding the players hand but not being sadistic about.I having a nothing against Dark Souls and have been meaning to give those games a serious try which requires doing some research into character builds then learn the game.I might actually be able to get pretty good it since,slow and methodical is how I tend to play. But that is one end of the spectrum and super hand holdy games are one the other and I find the best games including a lot of classics from the golden age tend to fall right in the middle and strike a seemingly perfect balance.

    What would you all consider as the time frame of the Golden Age of Gaming both PC and Console

    For me I would say its starts in either 86 or 87 and ends sometime in the early to mid 2000's but it really hit its stride starting 90 and all they way to around 2007 which is kind of when things started to go in the wrong direction with some exceptions.

    I really want some classic game design concepts to make a comeback one example being Thief,Goldeneye and Perfect Dark's additional objectives has you increased the difficulty instead of most modern's games version which is enemy's become damage sponges and you have the endurance of wet paper,actual optional and out of the way objectives,secret areas that reward exploring your environments and soaking in the game world.Not to mention almost everything about the original Deus Ex and the work done by modders on many different games that made incredible changes that feel like they were always there.I also wouldn't mind a return of 3D platformers,which hopefully Yooka-Laylee will be start the trend of.What other classic game styles or design choices from the golden age do you wish would make a comeback.


    Speaking of Zelda,I have got to say that in my opinion its the best 3D game since both Ocarina and Majora's,I did of course like Wind Waker,Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword but I think the release made some very much necassary improvements and It make me hope they give Skyward Sword the same treatment because in could really use it.The 2D/Portable Games have been really good except in my opinion Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.Not bad games mind you but I have never had the desire to play them again unlike every other game in the series.

  9. #34
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2018
    Hope I'm not too guilty of necromancy here....

    Playing through Thief 2014 just now and finding it a slog. Moments of brilliance but mostly a bad story, generic visual design and just a really boring experience unfortunately.

    So I think for thief 5 (or hopefull, a PROPER thief 4), the main thing that needs to happen is for the developer to drop the AAA mentality.

    Ditch the cutting edge graphics, aim for simplicity and style. I think a cel shaded, or oil painting styled look would work well, and would (if done right) save on processing power and provide us with larger levels again. Things don't need to be cutting edge to look good.

    Anyone play Gone Home? Classic walking simulator for better or worse, but that game somehow looked and felt more Thief than this reboot did.

    Next big thing, SIMPLIFY! Don't add mechanics to the original, if anything strip things back. Less tools, no fancy takedowns. Just you, a blackjack, (a jump button), and some basic arrows (broad head, water and rope would do it for me).

    Take a leaf from the recent Hitmans book. Dump us in a big level outside a structure and put the thing we need in the middle of the structure. Then just leave us to it, to get in and out wherever and however we choose.

    Last ones are obvious. Write a good story and bring back Stephen Russell.


    Be more Indie.
    Last edited by ewan; 11th Jan 2018 at 18:32. Reason: Crap spelling!

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    One of the biggest downfalls of Thief 4 was trying to cater to as wide an audience as possible, rather than appeal to a niche, which can still be profitable when done right. Even those who like Thief 4 and/or used that as their jumping on point are part of a niche group of gamers, and I maintain that a good portion of Thief 4's sales were because there still weren't that many games on the new consoles. If it came out now, especially with games like Dishonored 2 already out for current gen comparison, it would not sell nearly as well. Plus, the game is largely forgotten now in the popular conscience of the gaming community.

    I understand a profit needs to be made, Square and EM are businesses in the end and they have to make money. But I feel like games like Thief should get the treatment that films under Fox's Searchlight branch gets, which caters to more niche crowds with films that cost less and can still turn a profit without needing to attract as much an audience as say, the latest Marvel movie. That's what they should do with properties like Thief. Be willing to spend less.

  11. #36
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2018
    I 100% agree there. Thief isn't Dunkirk, it's more Blue Ruin. It feels like the more they added to thief 2014, the more the experience got diluted. The bank heist DLC has been my favourite (albeit short) mission so far, because the plot wasn't involved and there Was less
    linearity. Just a building, some guards and an expensive trinket to steal.
    The most throwaway level in the game for the developer has ended up being the closest they got to a good thief game.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by ewan View Post
    I 100% agree there. Thief isn't Dunkirk, it's more Blue Ruin. It feels like the more they added to thief 2014, the more the experience got diluted. The bank heist DLC has been my favourite (albeit short) mission so far, because the plot wasn't involved and there Was less
    linearity. Just a building, some guards and an expensive trinket to steal.
    The most throwaway level in the game for the developer has ended up being the closest they got to a good thief game.
    That and the Baron's mansion are the two high points of the game for me, as it's the closest it comes to really feeling like a Thief game. If the rest of the game was more like that and had less things like the rooftop chase sequence, it would be a really solid stealth game. The ingredients are all there but they just rarely ever use them right.

    I also always say the story would be so much better if it was just about Garrett and Basso's shinangians. Their moments were the best parts of the story. Well, except when Garrett was all "It's who I am". Even I skip those parts, and this game is a big guilty pleasure of mine.

  13. #38
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2018
    Just finished the baron mission. Great first half! And then the fire stuff kicked in. The musicmade it sound like I should be having an epic escape, but I just kept running into walls! So it was kind of tragic.
    Bumming about doing side missions to put off the final mission now. I like the side missions well enough! They'd be nicer as parts of the main missions though. I feel like they could have ditched the city hub and just rolled all the side missions as optional quests into the main missions.
    Also, good shout on the story. I usually get really into my game stories, but I really don't care about these characters.

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by ewan View Post
    Just finished the baron mission. Great first half! And then the fire stuff kicked in. The musicmade it sound like I should be having an epic escape, but I just kept running into walls! So it was kind of tragic.
    Bumming about doing side missions to put off the final mission now. I like the side missions well enough! They'd be nicer as parts of the main missions though. I feel like they could have ditched the city hub and just rolled all the side missions as optional quests into the main missions.
    Also, good shout on the story. I usually get really into my game stories, but I really don't care about these characters.
    The Baron's mansion really does sum up Thief 4 as a whole. Every time it starts to really get good, it undercuts itself. The architect's mansion, while small, was a lot of fun to sneak around and steal stuff from, but then it forces you into that shitty rooftop sequence is another example.

  15. #40
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Apologies if this has already been posted else where but I think this guy sums it up pretty well:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqwDGXxLhU

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: Denmark
    I don't belive the "we have to make easy games that hold your hand all the time to be commercially successfull" statement... Take Dark souls or bloodborne as examples... While niche games the have managed to be commercially sucessfull even with their very punishing approach to gameplay.
    Someone mentioned "The hitman model" in another thread... Cheap/free base game with missions and areas dynamically being made available by an update team for the hooked players to purchase, lots of social features for coupeting with friends on missions etc. I think that could be an interesting model for a thief game (which is already very very mission based).

  17. #42
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by ewan View Post
    Bumming about doing side missions to put off the final mission now.
    Yeah, after the mansion you've seen the best the main story has to offer. The last 2 story missions are real clunkers.

  18. #43
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2018
    I think the thing that made the original Thief games great was that you were vulnerable. You weren't some superhuman with divine powers, you're just a normal person with normal abilities. (aside from the mechanical eye, which really wasn't that useful anyways. And even that had a perfectly logical explanation in the setting.) That is why I couldn't get into Dishonored, I felt like some god that could run around and do anything, and Thi4f is guilty of that as well with the whole "focus" mechanic. When I recently played through Dishonored again, I did a ghost run with no powers except blink, and only because the levels were designed with blink in mind. It did feel a lot more like Thief. If a Thief 5 was going to be made, I think that stripping Garrett back to his bow and his blackjack would be a good start to making it better.

  19. #44
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommyph1208 View Post
    Someone mentioned "The hitman model" in another thread... Cheap/free base game with missions and areas dynamically being made available by an update team for the hooked players to purchase, lots of social features for coupeting with friends on missions etc. I think that could be an interesting model for a thief game (which is already very very mission based).
    I was thinking this too! I reckon that'd be a great way of re-introducing the game to a wary fan base,
    Giving us a low cost of entry and also giving the game many release points to help advertise.

    Also, xStevienx, totally agree with that last point. I'd even strip away some of the tools from the original games. I'd have blackjack, broadhead, water and rope arrows and lockipicks. Thief 4 had linear levels with over complicated mechanics. I want simple mechanics in a complicated level.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    Quote Originally Posted by xStevieNx View Post
    I think the thing that made the original Thief games great was that you were vulnerable. You weren't some superhuman with divine powers, you're just a normal person with normal abilities. (aside from the mechanical eye, which really wasn't that useful anyways. And even that had a perfectly logical explanation in the setting.) That is why I couldn't get into Dishonored, I felt like some god that could run around and do anything
    But you didn't have to use your 'powers' in either Dishonored game; in fact, there was an achievement (can't remember which game) for not using those powers. Besides, Dishonored 1 & 2 were more like the original Thief games (and here I'm referring to only TDP and TMA because imo TDS and Thi4f were travesties) in regards to stealth and immersion factors. TDS was a farce that almost literally led you by the hand from point A to point B (boring) and Thi4f was, well, just not Thief (I pretty much hate reboots). I still say the Dishonored games were what TDS & Thi4f should have been. EM/SE tried to pander to such a broad audience that they totally ruined the last two games. I can only hope they're done trying to revive the Thief series and will leave it to Arkane to continue to create games that I consider to be true successors to Thief.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Location: Wisconsin
    Both Dishonored games had an achievement for this. In Dishonored 1, "Mostly Flesh and Steel" requires you to not purchase any powers or abilities, but stick with the default Blink for the entire game (outside of the tutorial, the water lock in "Return to the Tower" is the only point in Dishonored 1 where Blink is necessary). In Dishonored 2, "Flesh and Steel" requires you to refuse the Outsider's Mark, which locks you out of having supernatural powers for the entire game.

    Generally, I only ever acquire the powers that improve my stealth capabilities and ignore everything related to killing and assassinating. That way, the Dishonored games feel a lot like modern Thief games.

    I also agree that the Dishonored series is a better successor to the Thief games than T14, especially because they were all designed as "immersive sims." You're dropped into a nonlinear environment with at least one primary goal to achieve, and you're pretty much free to go wherever and do whatever you like in order to accomplish that goal. Rather than rely on scripted events, enemies and objects reacted based on the actions you performed (think of the "sources and receptrons" system in DromEd), thus allowing for emergent gameplay. To put it another way, while other games tell you, "Find the solution we intended," immersive sims tell you, "Make your own solution."

    TDP, TMA, TDS, D1, and D2 all followed this design formula; T14 abandoned it in favor of scripted action sequences that it thought would make the game more appealing. Even when T14 was brave enough to give you a nonlinear environment (e.g. the side missions), you were still limited in terms of how you could move through and interact with that environment, which prevented it from ever reaching the level of an immersive sim.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    T14?

    edit: oh, I can't believe it took me this long to realise where the "14" came from! I also can't believe that it's already been four years since the release.
    Last edited by Tomi; 18th Jan 2018 at 21:06.

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    Quote Originally Posted by xStevieNx View Post
    I think the thing that made the original Thief games great was that you were vulnerable.
    I don't think that vulnerable is the best word to use in this case. I'm hardly an expert Thief player like a lot of people here, but even I find it a bit too easy to take advantage of the enemy AI in the original Thief games. Beating most enemies in a fight is fairly easy (especially if you choose to use all the gadgets and special arrows that you find), and running away or escaping a dangerous situation can sometimes be as simple as jumping on the kitchen table. Getting spotted often just felt a bit annoying rather than dangerous in the original Thief games, whereas the saving-your-ass-gameplay was implemented in a much better way in Dishonored and New-Thief in my opinion.

    As for Dishonored (I've only played the first one + the DLC), I really liked it, but I had much more fun when I tried playing it in assassin-style - there was something about the stealth gameplay that just didn't work for me. I also think that I would have enjoyed it more without Blink and the other powers. They might have been cool if they had been used sparingly, but it felt like the whole game was built around them.

  24. #49
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2018
    That's me just completed the last two levels. You guys weren't lying! It was a total slog.

    That ship was almost a neat idea, some decent sneaking happened there.

    The boss fights though! Why did those happen?! I found myself going lethal in the end just to get it over with.

    Really dissapointed overall. Loads of potential with the mechanics, the engine and even the look of a lot of the game.
    But the story was bad, and badly told. The characters were weak and annoying (Garrett included). The menus were too fussy, the inventory was too busy. Upgrade trees were unnecessary and the levels just felt so railroaded.

    I should comment that I got a new HDR TV and the graphics really are terrific even four years on. For the 20th anniversary they could remake the dark project on this engine and it would be magnificent.
    They won't though. I think we won't see thief or deus ex for some time.

    Maybe Nightdive Studios can wrestle the IP off of square!
    Last edited by nickie; 27th Jan 2018 at 14:06. Reason: It's against the law to misspell Garrett. :)

  25. #50
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2018
    Hi everyone, I'm a newbie here (and for that matter in all the Thief related discussions) so if I comment/say something that's already been answered or sounds stupid to the more avid posters, please don't kill me EDIT: I noticed I had so much to say I divided this into two sections.

    THIEF

    I've been playing Thief since 1998 and been a huge fan of the franchise so I'm very familiar with all of the games - with DromEd and DarkLoader (but not The Dark Mod, tried some crappy version way back). I was insanely hooked on The Dark Project the first time I played it, I think it was a demo of the game, and I suppose my messed up sleeping pattern is partly due to the long countless nights of playing that game over and over again. Everything about it was perfect at the time - and it still holds up. So when I learned of Thief Gold with few extra missions in it I was stoked. More countless sleepless nights playing Thief

    I've seen everyone put Thief 2 on the pedestal and while I think it is in many was an improvement to the first one, I still like The Dark Project/Gold better and I wouldn't call it the "best Thief game". What I loved about Thief 2 was the visual improvements and how the game itself was so much longer or at least felt like it - but I wasn't and still am not the biggest fan of the story or for example of the character of Karras. All hail the mighty Stephen Russell for the funny/crazy voice he did and bringing the character to life - but I think the writing could've been a bit better and the whole character overall. Also I felt they went a bit too far on the technological side with all the gadgets and all - compared to The Dark Project that had a more medieval vibe to it which was more to my taste. I did like to play most of the missions tho, the story just didn't feel as good as it could've been.

    Now to the point: perhaps I should consider myself lucky that I was "warned" of both Thief 3 and 4 before I could get my hands on the game. Personally I've really grown tired of watching how people are easily influenced by some people's first reactions (and how the band wagon effect takes off and misleads everyone) even when they haven't played the game. I just kinda wish people would ignore everyone else and think for themselves. Now as these guys start playing the game, they are "already disappointed" so they are looking for all the flaws in it - and that must be a horribly disappointing experience, no matter what you're playing. But if you try to look it in a positive way like "I'm gonna just focus on the positive and do my best to ignore the negative" the whole experience will be way more satisfying.

    I always aim to be like that: everytime I hear someone bashing about some game or movie or whatever, I make a mental note to myself not to judge the game or have any prejudices and actually be more open-minded than I would've initially been (had I not heard of the bashing). So with that mindset, I started playing Thief 3 - and instantly realized it was different. Ofc after 1 & 2 it feels at first irritating that they would start changing things: why fix something that isn't broken? But then I felt the similarities and with the graphical improvements and the overall mood and core mechanics it became the good old Thief experience despite the little differences. But I haven't really opposed changes as long as the core remains intact. And I felt that game was still a Thief game. Infact, I really liked the 3rd person option - as an option it wasn't a problem.

    Perhaps that - and the fact that I had hoped for a new Thief game for so long - had made me more open-minded to the new Thief game. Knowing it was 2014 and not 2000, I knew even before I saw any clips of the gameplay that it would be clearly different. That's just how it goes: times change, things change, people change. It would've made no sense to release a copy of the first two games after 14 years.

    I loved the visual side of almost everything I saw: to me all this talk about Garrett being a "batman/emo" character seemed weird because to me everything Garrett has done in the first three games - the physical feats, him lurking in the shadows, his behavior - is pointing to that direction, that he has to be something like that. Even the emo (actually gothic) side, making those eyes black, it makes more sense than not to: he has to be as dark as possible. It really didn't bother me that much even though I would've maybe gone even further with the eyes (more like looking paint than some eyeliner). And the face mask also made sense as well as his overall clothing. It was just more realistic.

    The story wasn't bad either - I think Erin was a welcome change I'd been waiting for since the first Fan Missions I played (Calendra's Cistern?) and the character could've been developed and used more in the whole game (see what they did with Dishonored 2 - Choosing between Corvo and Emily?) Maybe not that far but having her included more as the other Thief backup/sidekick would've been great. He's had help before.

    And now to the bad stuff that everyone else has also noticed:

    YOU CAN'T REPLACE STEPHEN RUSSELL AS GARRETT. PERIOD.

    If the guys responsible for this are Jean-Christophe Verbert and Steven Gallagher (as this article suggests https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...voice-actor-2/) then shame on them. That was a HUGE mistake and also a sign of arrogance and disregard towards the whole Thief gaming community. Feels as though they just wanted to forget the old fans and bring in the new audiences (=the cash!).

    Not to mention the restrictions of the movements: the fact that you can't JUMP at will, for God's sake! That was the first big disappointment in the whole gaming experience. Suddenly you couldn't go everywhere, you can't even shoot a rope arrow to any wooden surfaces. Using the rope arrow has been one of the main things since the first Thief games, you can't just go changing that. I probably don't have to list everything that's wrong with the mechanics but all of it becomes painfully clear when you play the game. Yeah, they definetely messed up big time with quite a few things.

    I also really disliked this character the "Thief-taker general". Even his name sounds stupid. Who would actually name a character like that? With some ridiculous crossbow thingy in his hand. Oh, unless it was a subtle implication to Dishonored ripping off Thief (didn't Corvo have the crossbow thingy). Then it's a clever play with words. But still: his lines, his whole appearances, even the voice - and I'm not blaming the voice actor here. I think that character overall was a mistake. Also, Basso the Boxman didn't look anything like the Basso I had envisioned in my head - thinking about an aged Basso from Cragscleft Prison and Running Interference. Why did they have to make everyone look like fat drunks?

    Things that (in my opinion) should have been added: Keepers, Pagans and Hammerites - or at least something similar group of characters that could've been relatable for us long-term taffers. They just are very essential to the whole Thief experience. I don't know if it was a copyright thing or what but if not, they could've easily made a game that's an standalone sequel with enough elements to please the fans of the old franchise. It would've been a win-win scenario storywise. Imagine this: from the moment Garrett meets Erin as a child in the ending of Thief 3 (is this confirmed?), he's become a Keeper. The kid grows up in his care and obviously turns to her thieving ways, reminding Garrett of his former self. This, the need to protect her - and maybe some drama with the Keepers - would bring him back to the art of Thievery. Or maybe send him a way for years - which brings us to the beginning of the game. He's been away for quite some time.

    There was so much material that could've been made better use of. Sigh.

    But like with everything, I tried to find the good - and I did find it. The story had good sides to it, the characters had good sides to them, even the mechanics had good sides to them - and everything got improved when I went to the menu and turned a bunch of options off. As I played on, at some point I forgot about the new mechanics and simply delved into the dark stealth experience that Thief has always been, lurking in the shadows, suprising unaware guards with knockouts, running on rooftops. There was still a lot of good in it. For example lock-picking with no visual helper, just the vibration on my controller telling me the sweet spot, I really liked that.

    And, even though I hate to admit this, the new voice actor did a decent job. A perfect way for the studios to redeem themselves in a new Thief game would be to bring the two together: bring in an older, more experienced (maybe former) Thief character that's voiced by none other than Stephen Russell. To have these two meet and shake hands in someways would be some sort of satisfaction. Of course the ideal would be to go straight back to Russell but I don't know if that would work considering they already released one game with another voice actor. Besides it would feel a bit weird after him already having a crucial role in Dishonored 2. Of course if it was possible, then sure! He is the original Garrett.

    DISHONORED:

    I haven't really looked into the matter so don't kill me if I'm asking something that everyone knows: does anyone know who was running Thief the Circle the Thief fanmission/art/literature/software site up until 2010 when he started as a level designer "on an unannounced project for ZeniMax Media/Bethesda Softworks" as a certain Arkane (Bethesda Softworks, a ZeniMax Media company) game comes to mind?

    http://www.thief-thecircle.com/#topnewspost

    Seeing most of the site's fanmade games were made for Thief 2 that had a more victorian/steampunk vibe and how the fanmade stories took off, I can't help but think that at least this one person was/is involved with Dishonored that clearly borrows/steals from Thief 2. As someone who's played both Dishonored 1 and 2 (and I love the visual side of the latter), I get the feeling of playing a game that was built on Thief the same way a lot of the DromEd fan made missions were.

    For me Thief is something sacred so I can't give Dishonored points for being original. I can give some points to them developing _something_ original from the building blocks of the Thief franchise, but if it was up to me, the whole Thief influence thing would've been way more underlined than it has been. Or rather: they would've created a more unique, more original game that doesn't borrow so heavily from one certain game. I know it has influences from other games as well but as a taffer who's been playing since day one, I can spot all the things that are similar and to me it's just too much.

    So: Dishonored rips off Thief and Thief 4 returns the favor by ripping off Dishonored. So, when I first played Dishonored 2, I wasn't really surprised to see they had once again ripped off Thief. I felt like I was visually playing a direct sequel to Thief 2. Even the beginning of the first level feels like the Life of the Party mission of Thief 2 and the overall feel of the city borrows heavily from the early missions of Thief 2 (e.g. Running Interference). And now when you have the option to not use magic, it's basically a Thief game. Having a little pistol on the other hand really doesn't change it.

    But I'm relatively new to the series, let's see if it grows on me. However, I doubt I'll ever change my mind about them ripping off Thief.

    Bottomline:

    I don't believe in burying any franchise that's good or has some clearly good qualities in it. Just because you made a few mistakes along the way, maybe even big ones, doesn't mean you can't correct them later. New people, a new generation, will find it - and time gives you new opportunities to correct those wrongs you've made in the past. Of course there's the chance of something bad coming along the way but that doesn't mean they're all bad or that they don't have some really cool parts in them that can't be later on cultivated and made into something really good.

    In my humble opinion: for the new Thief game to actually make sense and work, the creators of the new Thief game should be

    1. As invested in the game as the original developers were back in the first two games.
    2. Take a good look at Thief 4 and see every aspect they failed at and never repeat those mistakes.
    3. Take a good look at what Arkane has done visually and with the mechanics in Dishonored 2 and actually realize: "they did what we didn't/couldn't. They actually made a decent 'Thief' game with several lovable elements we failed to create. So we must do all that in order to make an actually decent, high-quality, unique, REDEEMING and GOOD Thief game - and yet bring back the good old Thief with some new flavor". I think the medieval vibe of the new Thief is the wiser choice: no point in going to that Thief 2-vibe as it's been made known by Dishonored.

    Lastly:

    I'll compare this to Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back was and still is probably the best Star Wars movie to date. Nothing changes that and it has held up for decades. And after the band wagon effect of the prequel bashing, people probably kind of lost faith in the Star Wars movies. Then The Force Awakens came and it was a positive surprise to some, a big disappointment to others. But then came ROGUE ONE. And we suddenly realized there still was the potential of making something actually good today that would please the older fans and would still appeal to the younger audiences. The ideal win-win scenario than both brings the cash and ALL the fans is actually possible.

    I sincerely believe that goes with the new Thief game as well.

    PS. Sorry for the very long first post.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •