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Thread: Huge problem in my mission, a damaged brush?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2012

    Huge problem in my mission, a damaged brush?

    So I have a huge problem in my mission right now that has pretty much broken it.

    I have always taken care to keep everything snapped to grid, with a few minor exceptions having their rotation not snapped to grid (but their position yes).
    The lowest grid size I have used is 11, but most things are at grid size 13.
    Every brush is snapped to grid as far as positions go. I tried to look for non-snapped brushes but didn't find any, so there is no issue there.
    The MONO console spat out this error: "Apparent cell cycle in portal_traverse_scene (cell 3562, center 29.500002, -313.5, 308.75)" along with some others, but due to the X coordinate of this one being so horribly weird, I have decided to check out that spot. And there it was indeed, the thing that caused everything to blink into blackness for some reason.



    This solid brush has a small black triangle at exactly the location that is referenced in the Dromed error report.
    Something seems to be wrong with that spot.

    So I saw this and thought: "all right, so this brush is causing the issue, is it? Let's delete it then"
    But when I deleted the brush, everything went to hell. I deleted it and optimized and suddenly all broke down. I only saw wireframes then, and objects were for no conceivable reasons "not in the world" despite clearly being in an airbrush. Removing this one solid brush containing the faulty cell destroyed everything.

    So... I honestly have no idea what to do now. This brush NEVER caused any problems before and I really don't know why it does because it is properly snapped to grid and it has always worked fine before.

    If anyone wants to take a look at it, I have uploaded the mission file on filedropper:
    http://www.filedropper.com/solblcbabp32
    And here's my custom gamesys:
    http://www.filedropper.com/jarlcustom

    EDIT:
    Well, I have replaced the corner-apex pyramid with a cube and suddenly, all the errors are gone. Here's the updated mission file + gamesys in a zip:
    http://www.filedropper.com/solblcbabp

    This is what I did:


    But if I remove this and try to place a corner-apex pyramid there again - yep, you guessed it, it gets borked again!
    This is causing me frustration to no end. Will I have to put an ugly block that doesn't fit to the architecture on this spot, just to prevent a bad cell?
    Last edited by JarlFrank; 20th Mar 2017 at 19:57.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Instead of using a corner apex pyramid I suggest making the wood brush large enough to stick out as far as you want and then use air wedges to cut off the same wood. This will effectively shave off the corners so that they wrap around the corner.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Glad you got it back from the brink. I only one input as I myself am learning brush work, are you highlighting unsnapped brushes then hitting snap highlighted? Friendly warning if you do this, be sure to use lowest grid size previously used in your mission otherwise the smaller details will snap to the bigger grid. I hope someone knows about this issue, and can recover, but this is why I save my missions if I so much as sneeze it's a new 0000# file.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by gamophyte View Post
    Glad you got it back from the brink. I only one input as I myself am learning brush work, are you highlighting unsnapped brushes then hitting snap highlighted? Friendly warning if you do this, be sure to use lowest grid size previously used in your mission otherwise the smaller details will snap to the bigger grid. I hope someone knows about this issue, and can recover, but this is why I save my missions if I so much as sneeze it's a new 0000# file.
    Yes, I've done that, my lowest grid size is 11 and I used the highlight function at that grid size and found not a single unsnapped brush.

    I have now toyed around with that problematic area again.
    Fellow DromEder DevAnj looked at it too and determined that the solid wedge should be the problem, not the corner apex pyramid.
    Further experimentation by me revealed that this wasn't true. I tried removing all the wedges and replacing them with a cube trim instead - nope, world won't even render, get red errors.
    EVERYTHING I tried except for blocking off the offending cell with a solid ended up borking the mission up even further.

    Frustrated, I thought: it looks ugly this way and besides, if anything I do at that spot taffs up the mission, how safe is it to continue building while this issue persists?
    So I decided to try something I haven't tried yet: playing around with brush drawing times.
    I put all the big air brushes I'm building the mission in to the beginning: 1, 2, 3 etc.
    I saw that one of them was timed "0" and thought that can't be right, so I set the 0 to a 1. I also made sure to put all the other large air brushes to the beginning, too.

    Now everything works fine, the problem in this area is gone. Huh. I don't understand why but I sure am happy about it!

    Edit:

    Haha, of course I was wrong. It still gets me the error now that I optimized a few times. Damn!
    Last edited by JarlFrank; 21st Mar 2017 at 16:48.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Haha, of course I was wrong. It still gets me the error now that I optimized a few times. Damn!
    I'll open the MIS and take a look around. BRB

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2012
    Update: literally ANYTHING I do in that spot other than adding the solid square block in the second screenshot in the OP causes the optimization process to fail entirely.

    If I add another wall there, for example, it all gets borked up. Anything, anything at all, ruins this spot. I'll probably just leave my hands off it but it drives me nuts regardless

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: Argentina
    Maybe move the entire map, say, X: 64 Y:64 Z:0 units away from the current area? (I put this number so it doesn't mess with the textures). It sounds silly but Dromed is Dromed, so you never know

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Yeah I couldn't figure out too much, I optimized three times, and then deleted cube place another pyramid clones from one of the other corners and now get these and black planes littering the map.



    This might be due to many cells affecting each other, even if not near each other. You may not see this if your streets were more cramped. I can see all of your complex architecture from far away all in the same window. The round windows in the inn (I think that's what it is) could stand to be objects to save on cell complexity. I'm not sure how viable it is to continue from this point though, that's up to you. Again I'm not an expert so someone else might be more helpful.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: Argentina
    Hey I've had that "apparent cell cycle in portal_traverse_scene" error in my last FM. My solution was to close Dromed, check the area affected and re-build it. I also avoided too many solid brushes intersecting each other and that did the trick.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Once I took a look around there was cylinders galore. I would use objects wherever you can to reduce this. I am not so sure it has anything to do with that spot, as much as it breaking the camel's back. Again though, I hope I'm not giving bad information. I think Larry and Yandros are better at this sort of thing, I just thought I would see if I could help. If you do want to start replacing cylinders with objects I wouldn't mind helping make those objects.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2012
    Hah, I finally fixed it for real now. I removed all the corner apex pyramids at this building, elongated the wedges, and cut off the overhanging parts with air wedges. Now the error is gone - so maybe the corner-apex pyramids were causing way too many cells. I'll remember that for later and change my method of building this kind of trim to not using corner apex pyramids anymore!

    As for the cylinders - I could replace some of the pillars with objects, yeah. That would help cut down on brushes and cells and make the whole thing a lot tidier. I'll check out the object repository for any useable pillars first.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    That's good to hear!

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