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Thread: T2 FM - Breathing Corpses (06 May 2017)

  1. #101
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2013
    Location: Somewhere in a city of iron
    Quote Originally Posted by Kin View Post
    I searched the folder with the zip FM files but i am not sure wich one is the mission
    You should just have to open the T2FM-BreathingCorpses[MULTI].zip and then open the MOVIES folder and the file is named B23.AVI

  2. #102
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Where's the key to the chest with the fire talisman?

  3. #103
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2013
    Location: Somewhere in a city of iron
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    Where's the key to the chest with the fire talisman?
    It's in the brazier down the tall bridges between the nave and the library
    If you are looking for something else, check out the spoilers I've added at the bottom of the first post, you should fond everything useful in there

  4. #104
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: WearyTaffer
    Great mission! It seemed simple at first, but the deeper I went-the more I realized just how huge and interesting the whole place is! Lots of T1 Bonehoard style fun!

  5. #105
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2010
    Thank you FrenchDecay! What a fantastic mission it was! Now I'm just waiting impatiently for your next mission....

  6. #106
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchDecay View Post
    It's in the brazier down the tall bridges between the nave and the library
    If you are looking for something else, check out the spoilers I've added at the bottom of the first post, you should fond everything useful in there
    Thanks!

    There's a couple things I couldn't find in the first post. There's 2 chests in the area with the Talismans that I can't open (I have the 4 talismans, but there's 2 extra chests).
    I haven't been able to find the First Icon either

  7. #107
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2013
    Location: Somewhere in a city of iron
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    Thanks!

    There's a couple things I couldn't find in the first post. There's 2 chests in the area with the Talismans that I can't open (I have the 4 talismans, but there's 2 extra chests).
    I haven't been able to find the First Icon either
    The other chests in the Talismans area can be opened with regular lockpicks
    The First Icon is in the room past the Rotten Sun place, you need to cross the hammer shadow and get up the large stairs and then back to the small blue shrine. It'll be here if you have frobbed the fake icon in the nave

    Other than that, thanks guys again

  8. #108
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Thanks!

  9. #109
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2015
    Location: Germany
    I enjoyed the FM in the recent days and tried to solve the last puzzles - thanks to the spoilers I found the attic key (creates a shortcut to the tomb of the Saddlers dynasty) , retreived the rotten sun and the true iconic hammer and found out that the locked door next to the grave of the envious skeleton (take a look look at my previous posts) was just a back door for leaving the tombs.

    There is only one last thing to do - opening the Saddler´s tomb. To be honest, I retreived the Saddlers bequest by using Azal´s famous elevatoring technique, but this is rather a cheap way of playing.

    I know that there are three cursed generations of the saddlers family. Also there is a room right over the Tombs warm embrace containing frobable statues of the saddlers and I assume, this is the key for solvin the riddle. Do I need to frob the statues with a certain item, like the hand of the saint?

    I totlly enjoyed your mission, now a playtime of totally 4 hours. The missions architecture reminded me somehow to a mix of the bonehoard and of "Return to the Cathredral", just like you wrote in the readme file.

  10. #110
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2013
    Location: Somewhere in a city of iron
    Quote Originally Posted by Thinking Robot View Post
    I enjoyed the FM in the recent days and tried to solve the last puzzles - thanks to the spoilers I found the attic key (creates a shortcut to the tomb of the Saddlers dynasty) , retreived the rotten sun and the true iconic hammer and found out that the locked door next to the grave of the envious skeleton (take a look look at my previous posts) was just a back door for leaving the tombs.

    There is only one last thing to do - opening the Saddler´s tomb. To be honest, I retreived the Saddlers bequest by using Azal´s famous elevatoring technique, but this is rather a cheap way of playing.

    I know that there are three cursed generations of the saddlers family. Also there is a room right over the Tombs warm embrace containing frobable statues of the saddlers and I assume, this is the key for solvin the riddle. Do I need to frob the statues with a certain item, like the hand of the saint?

    I totlly enjoyed your mission, now a playtime of totally 4 hours. The missions architecture reminded me somehow to a mix of the bonehoard and of "Return to the Cathredral", just like you wrote in the readme file.
    Good job and thanks! Now in order to open the Saddler's tomb properly, you just need to write down which generations were cursed (there are 4 of them) and write down the names of each member of the family, no need to frob any of the statue at all. Then you just frob their coffins to enter the code (you just won't see the odometer but the result is here)
    As this puzzle can be tidious, I left a way to get in there without actually solving it. I'm pretty sure you can climb up there by stacking crates and the sturdy chair I didn't hear about Azal's technique, what is it

  11. #111
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2015
    Location: Germany
    Thanks!

    http://www.greywool.com/azal/

    Here is Azal´s site - it makes fun to poke around there, you can find it in the tutorials section. Yes, I got up there by stacking all my potions and holy water bottles to get up there...

  12. #112
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Orange Grove
    I am probably about 75% through the game? I cannot tell, since it just keeps expanding. I'm really trying my best not to cheat and look at spoilers.

    I love hearing myself do the insane VO work. I also have to give proper respect and admiration to the other VO talent. It's all good. My parts are one of the skulls and also the guy that makes you build the hammer, locks you in, and lets you out... Funny too, since I have not yet been able to do that yet...

    Great job French Decay. It was a pleasure to provide some of the VO work for this FM. My little part pales in comparison to your imaginative game play. Great puzzles. Pretty hard difficulty, even in "wimp" mode. Keep it up. All the best in whatever you do in the future. You've got some valuable talent.

  13. #113
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2016
    Location: Blundering through the shadows
    @bjack My respect and admiration to you as well. I particularly like what you did with the skulls, and I thought all of them were very distinctive. Great job all round!

  14. #114
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2013
    Location: Somewhere in a city of iron
    Thanks a bunch! The voice actors provided top notch tracks throughout the whole mission

  15. #115
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Just finished. 3 hours, 33 minutes, 33 seconds. No joke:



    So this was...hmmm...completely mind blowing. The best undead mission I've ever played, and now on my top 10 missions of all time

    I'm so honoured to have been part of this too.

    I played Iron Heart right before it and was impressed, but this is a whole other level. I'm really hoping for many, many more from you French Decay

  16. #116
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Having a blast with this so far! Thanks for the great mission.

    One thing that may be a bug: I found a ladder that I could pick up and put in my inventory. However, if I drop it, I can essentially place it anywhere and then climb it. Is this the intended use? If not, this breaks basically any puzzle where you're not supposed to be able to get up somewhere high until later...

  17. #117
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    That's a bug, Nick It'll be fixed in the next version, so have fun with it for now

  18. #118
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2013
    Location: Somewhere in a city of iron
    @Azaran Thanks a lot Azaran! What an heartwarming comment, and what an awesome coincidence on the time spent in the mission I can only hope that my next projects will be as pleasant for you as this one!

    @nicked Thanks a bunch for playing! It's indeed a bug, it was fixed in the latest version I just uploaded, now there won't be any flying thief lurking around the tombs

  19. #119
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany

    I have completed playing the mission some days ago, but had to cool down a bit before writing about it. The playing experience went from being very interesting in the first half of playing to developing an urge to toss it away in a major part of the second half of playing. It became better again afterwards, but it was a pretty rough ride part of the time.

    In the beginning, everything was well. Strange things happened almost as soon as the mission started, maps showed me where to go (or at least I thought so...), and riddles and puzzles began to slowly crop up. New undead kept me (and my sword) entertained as well. Parchments and other mysterious texts were scattered about, and the dead thief found not too far from the entrance made me think about what he was doing here and where his friends might be. Large rooms, many of them with a different look, connected with passages, fuelled my curiosity as well.

    But then the mazes wouldn't end. The maps proved to be only of limited use, because the majority of places weren't on the maps. More and more connections between the parts didn't make things easier, for the human mind is not endless in terms of storage space. And the riddles kept cropping up - but not their solutions. Most of the puzzles obviously needed some object brought to a special (and far away by now) place, but most of the time, I had no idea what could be of use in a certain place. So I kept running around in circles, writing several pages down to be at least partially capable of navigating in the huge maze, and once I reached something special, I blindly tried to use that "something" with just everything I had in my inventory. Standard behaviour if one does not understand the logic (if present) of puzzles. Six hours later, confusion, frustration and even boredom was all that remained. And reading the forums didn't make things easier, especially because I seldom have fun playing some game by just reading the walkthru, applying it, and then being done with it. The last nail for the coffin were all the babblings about the rotten sun written onto walls and some parchments. After a while, I didn't read them anymore, because they seemed to be [insert swear word or foul language here] only.

    Luckily, there were just enough things left keeping me interested in the mission, but I was very close to abandoning it there and never touch that thing again. But then, the mist began to clear slowly, and after some more hours, I completed the mission.

    I would say that two things were almost unbearable for me: The lack of useful maps (at least most of the time), and puzzles of which I could not make head or tail of even after several minutes of thinking. That combined with an extremely huge maze can either be a challenge for players... or a recipe for disaster. So, if you create another mission with a large or even huge mission once again, please think about making the layout less confusing - e.g., by having fewer branches in rooms or corridors, by creating distinct looks for different sections (as you did, for example, with the "Warm Embrace of the Tomb" compared to the areas surrounding it), and by refraining from making it all too large. (And thinking that you mentioned the map was much larger initially... oh no, I better don't think about that...)

    Furthermore, what about giving the player more maps? You don't have to do that right at the beginning. For example, the thieves split up to explore parts of the territory on their own, as one mentioned in his last (written) words. What if each of them had a (rough) map of his surroundings with him, one that he himself made? Or maybe one would mention where he lost his map, and Garrett could track that map down. You could even combine these ideas and then provide some variation by having the maps easily accessible on easiest difficulty level, but in some remote locations on the higher levels, and with a more or less elaborate description (depending on difficulty level) of where to find them.

    You could as well do something similar concerning the puzzles (although a major part of my problems with them was that I had to travel vast distances in the huge confusing maze in order to try any newfound object on something else I had discovered easier). Maybe one of the thieves or the Hammers could provide some kind of oral or written help, depending on difficulty level.

    Then, maybe, the mission would appeal to more players, for I firmly believe that I'm not the only one who experiences severe mood shifts when mazes turn out to be too complicated and/or confusing, and puzzles just seem to have no understandable solution. "Maze handicapped players" could then play on easiest difficulty, while those born with perfect navigation skills would start on higher difficulty levels right away, and have fun with that.

    Overall, though, the mission was far from being as bad as the last sections of my post might suggest. I am relieved that I made my way through instead of giving up, and at last, I was rewarded near the end.

    Thus, I am interested in what you may bring to us in the future, but on the other hand, I will be a bit cautios as well, then. And thank you for creating (and updating) "Breathing Corpses"!


    And now for something completely different.

    You asked whether the movies didn't play correctly for players. I noticed that while the movie played from beginning to end without any severe problem, it was displayed differently when using the movie player of Windows 7, compared to watching it in-game. Win7 displays it correctly, but in the game, the movie is squeezed together horizontally if "crop movies" is switched off in NewDark. The game then adds some more vertical black space to the right and left of the movie, in addition to the black bars already present in the video. If "crop movies" is on, on the other hand, the things displayed in the movie have correct proportions again (and there are only the black bars already present in the movie file), but then the upper and lower part of the movie are cut off.

    I think I read something about a similar problem concerning the movie in "Waterfront Racket", but can't find much about it in the thread now. Maybe just my imagination.

    Another thing that is unusual with the movie is the sound's sampling rate, which is 48 kHz. With sounds in-game (not in the movies), there have been problems with that and higher sampling rates; rates of 44,1 kHz and below were OK even with Thief 2 v1.18. Maybe downsampling the sound part of the movie could help for the people experiencing crashes when the movie should be displayed.

  20. #120
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2013
    Location: Somewhere in a city of iron
    Quote Originally Posted by baeuchlein View Post
    I have completed playing the mission some days ago, but had to cool down a bit before writing about it. The playing experience went from being very interesting in the first half of playing to developing an urge to toss it away in a major part of the second half of playing. It became better again afterwards, but it was a pretty rough ride part of the time.

    In the beginning, everything was well. Strange things happened almost as soon as the mission started, maps showed me where to go (or at least I thought so...), and riddles and puzzles began to slowly crop up. New undead kept me (and my sword) entertained as well. Parchments and other mysterious texts were scattered about, and the dead thief found not too far from the entrance made me think about what he was doing here and where his friends might be. Large rooms, many of them with a different look, connected with passages, fuelled my curiosity as well.

    But then the mazes wouldn't end. The maps proved to be only of limited use, because the majority of places weren't on the maps. More and more connections between the parts didn't make things easier, for the human mind is not endless in terms of storage space. And the riddles kept cropping up - but not their solutions. Most of the puzzles obviously needed some object brought to a special (and far away by now) place, but most of the time, I had no idea what could be of use in a certain place. So I kept running around in circles, writing several pages down to be at least partially capable of navigating in the huge maze, and once I reached something special, I blindly tried to use that "something" with just everything I had in my inventory. Standard behaviour if one does not understand the logic (if present) of puzzles. Six hours later, confusion, frustration and even boredom was all that remained. And reading the forums didn't make things easier, especially because I seldom have fun playing some game by just reading the walkthru, applying it, and then being done with it. The last nail for the coffin were all the babblings about the rotten sun written onto walls and some parchments. After a while, I didn't read them anymore, because they seemed to be [insert swear word or foul language here] only.

    Luckily, there were just enough things left keeping me interested in the mission, but I was very close to abandoning it there and never touch that thing again. But then, the mist began to clear slowly, and after some more hours, I completed the mission.

    I would say that two things were almost unbearable for me: The lack of useful maps (at least most of the time), and puzzles of which I could not make head or tail of even after several minutes of thinking. That combined with an extremely huge maze can either be a challenge for players... or a recipe for disaster. So, if you create another mission with a large or even huge mission once again, please think about making the layout less confusing - e.g., by having fewer branches in rooms or corridors, by creating distinct looks for different sections (as you did, for example, with the "Warm Embrace of the Tomb" compared to the areas surrounding it), and by refraining from making it all too large. (And thinking that you mentioned the map was much larger initially... oh no, I better don't think about that...)

    Furthermore, what about giving the player more maps? You don't have to do that right at the beginning. For example, the thieves split up to explore parts of the territory on their own, as one mentioned in his last (written) words. What if each of them had a (rough) map of his surroundings with him, one that he himself made? Or maybe one would mention where he lost his map, and Garrett could track that map down. You could even combine these ideas and then provide some variation by having the maps easily accessible on easiest difficulty level, but in some remote locations on the higher levels, and with a more or less elaborate description (depending on difficulty level) of where to find them.

    You could as well do something similar concerning the puzzles (although a major part of my problems with them was that I had to travel vast distances in the huge confusing maze in order to try any newfound object on something else I had discovered easier). Maybe one of the thieves or the Hammers could provide some kind of oral or written help, depending on difficulty level.

    Then, maybe, the mission would appeal to more players, for I firmly believe that I'm not the only one who experiences severe mood shifts when mazes turn out to be too complicated and/or confusing, and puzzles just seem to have no understandable solution. "Maze handicapped players" could then play on easiest difficulty, while those born with perfect navigation skills would start on higher difficulty levels right away, and have fun with that.

    Overall, though, the mission was far from being as bad as the last sections of my post might suggest. I am relieved that I made my way through instead of giving up, and at last, I was rewarded near the end.

    Thus, I am interested in what you may bring to us in the future, but on the other hand, I will be a bit cautios as well, then. And thank you for creating (and updating) "Breathing Corpses"!


    And now for something completely different.

    You asked whether the movies didn't play correctly for players. I noticed that while the movie played from beginning to end without any severe problem, it was displayed differently when using the movie player of Windows 7, compared to watching it in-game. Win7 displays it correctly, but in the game, the movie is squeezed together horizontally if "crop movies" is switched off in NewDark. The game then adds some more vertical black space to the right and left of the movie, in addition to the black bars already present in the video. If "crop movies" is on, on the other hand, the things displayed in the movie have correct proportions again (and there are only the black bars already present in the movie file), but then the upper and lower part of the movie are cut off.

    I think I read something about a similar problem concerning the movie in "Waterfront Racket", but can't find much about it in the thread now. Maybe just my imagination.

    Another thing that is unusual with the movie is the sound's sampling rate, which is 48 kHz. With sounds in-game (not in the movies), there have been problems with that and higher sampling rates; rates of 44,1 kHz and below were OK even with Thief 2 v1.18. Maybe downsampling the sound part of the movie could help for the people experiencing crashes when the movie should be displayed.
    Now that's what I call complete feedback
    Thanks for playing and taking the time to explain in detail the flaws of BC; now I was expecting someone to point out these issues, maze-like places and spread puzzle pieces are something some people like and other dislike. I think it shows that this type of FM is not something I'm really confortable with, I had to rethink the locations of many objects many times and beta-testers helped a lot making the map less tidious. I don't think I will replicate such a complicated layout in the future so you don't have to worry about that, I can't promise anything about puzzles being more intuitive though! What can I say, I have a twisted sense of logic

    So to put it bluntly, map design, level layout, puzzle design and texts were the flaws?

    Also thanks for the link on that technical issue, I'll make sure to fix cutscenes in my next projects!

  21. #121
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Location: Germany
    Not trying to indicate that the mission was 'easy', but to me the puzzles made perfect sense - and I was able to solve them on my own.
    Actually only the presence of the dead Priest and the other corpse puzzled me for a while before I figured what they are there for.
    And luckily: I always frob everything, which is way I had the right tools at hand when needed.
    So, I'd say that you (FrenchDecay) are perfectly comfortable to create yet another such mission in the future.
    But yeah, the hughe size was a little bit of an issue to me as well, as there were certain areas I just could not memorize how to get there.
    Anyway: similar missions like that would be highly appreciated.
    A tip in the readme telling people to take NOTES (!) should help everyone one out who has little time per day in case a lot of backtracking will be required.

  22. #122
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Location: Cape Breton Nova Scotia Canada
    I had a great time with this. I spent five hours trying to find every thing I could. Excellent!

    The T2FMshort-Midnight.zip. Its telling me to enter the password to open the archive. In lieu of reading everything in the thread, can anyone help me out?
    Last edited by Ravenus1; 9th Apr 2017 at 01:11.

  23. #123
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2013
    Location: Somewhere in a city of iron
    Quote Originally Posted by gnartsch View Post
    Not trying to indicate that the mission was 'easy', but to me the puzzles made perfect sense - and I was able to solve them on my own.
    Actually only the presence of the dead Priest and the other corpse puzzled me for a while before I figured what they are there for.
    And luckily: I always frob everything, which is way I had the right tools at hand when needed.
    So, I'd say that you (FrenchDecay) are perfectly comfortable to create yet another such mission in the future.
    But yeah, the hughe size was a little bit of an issue to me as well, as there were certain areas I just could not memorize how to get there.
    Anyway: similar missions like that would be highly appreciated.
    A tip in the readme telling people to take NOTES (!) should help everyone one out who has little time per day in case a lot of backtracking will be required.
    Thanks and that's actually a good idea, I think I'll add that hint directly in the download page rather than the readme

    @Ravenus1 Great to hear! Ok, about that archive, here's a hint : If you used all the mortuary coins correctly, then you must have unlocked the Iron Heart city (the old city-like place from my former mission), go there and pay attention to the your surroundings. Make sure that your computer is bright enough and that you play in the dark lest you will miss it

    Straight-up solution here : When looking through the tall windows in the room with many weapons, look at the building with a red zombie and a tinman patrolling, through the window of that building is a wooden board who is lit by a dynamic light. It reads "6"

  24. #124
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Location: Cape Breton Nova Scotia Canada
    That is straight up the coolest. Thanks

  25. #125
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Orange Grove
    I hope this has not been asked, if so then sorry. Anyway, there is a hall with a statue with a bowl in front of it that contains a fire arrow. At the end of the hall is a room to the left with a healing fountain and a room to the right with 2 caskets and a Zombie hiding place. I dispatched the zombie and frobbed the yellow wall and hear a click, but cannot figure out what it does. Does anyone know what that switch does, iif anything? Thanks!

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