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Thread: Quick and Dirty Thief 3 Gold "Swimmable" Water?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: May 2015

    Quick and Dirty Thief 3 Gold "Swimmable" Water?

    The Thief 3 Gold mod has transformed Thief 3 from a mediocre experience to something actually worth playing for me. One of the items on the mod authors "not likely to happen" list is the ability to swim in deep water.

    This of course makes sense, as it would be a lot of work to add in a similar system to Thief 1 and 2, wherein we could dive under water, have a breath meter, etc.
    However we could work with the system already in place to provide something that is at least less jarring. The most memorable cringy experience for me was jumping off the docks in Thief 3, only to plummet to the depths as though the "water" weren't even there, and getting insta killed on the geometry far below, immersion totally gone.

    So how about we do a few map edits instead, maybe bring the geometry below the water line up far enough so that garret can walk/run on it with only his neck/shoulders visible above the water line. Maybe we could even add in a movement speed modifier and a swimming sound effect for added immersion.

    This wouldn't really add all that much to gameplay, but it would add quite a lot to immersion, imagine being able to jump into the water of the docks and "swim" along to reach another section, emerging to blackjack an unaware guard from behind

  2. #2
    The third person view and Garrett animated model ("body awareness") would make any of this even more jarring and immersion-breaking.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    The third person view and Garrett animated model ("body awareness") would make any of this even more jarring and immersion-breaking.
    That's why you don't use third person, and set the platform/water height so as to submerge/obscure most of Garret's animated model under the water line. Pretty simple in concept, and not as jarring as you may think, but I don't have much experience with the editor. All I know is it would be a heck of a lot more immersive than it currently is, and a heck of a lot easier than crafting a full system like in Thief 1 and 2.
    I mean, who really uses third person mode in Thief 3? Is that really a valid argument or are you just looking for any possible reason to be pessimistic?

    The only real hurdle here is the water. Thief 3 appears to have 2 types of water, the first is shallow and lighter in color/translucent so as to identify that Garret can walk through it. The second is deep and darker as seen on the docks. Is it even possible to have an area with that darker color water at around neck height on Garret without some hardcoded engine flag killing him off? Is it the opaque/deep water that kills Garret or is it the height of the fall to the geometry below that kills him?
    Last edited by mikjames; 3rd Apr 2017 at 13:50.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    anything thief 3 engine related should be done on newdark t2 in my view

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    anything thief 3 engine related should be done on newdark t2 in my view
    What? You want to remake the entirety of Thief 3 in NewDark? That would be entirely counter productive and even more work than implementing a complex swimming system into Thief 3.
    I'm guessing you didn't read the op, we are discussing altering the deep water areas of original missions. By adding a platform ~5 feet below the water's surface you could create the appearance that Garret is swimming.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    Quote Originally Posted by mikjames View Post
    What? You want to remake the entirety of Thief 3 in NewDark? That would be entirely counter productive and even more work than implementing a complex swimming system into Thief 3.
    I'm guessing you didn't read the op, we are discussing altering the deep water areas of original missions. By adding a platform ~5 feet below the water's surface you could create the appearance that Garret is swimming.

    the hub area and parts of map are already done and fan missions have been released using them,its way better,also sounds/voices and textures for people have already been added to the t2 fan mission

    thief 3 engine was counter productive

    and i am sure over time more will come out in section like t3 was made,its not able recreating t3 but giving us cannon level design to have more fan mission made

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    the hub area and parts of map are already done and fan missions have been released using them,its way better,also sounds/voices and textures for people have already been added to the t2 fan mission

    thief 3 engine was counter productive

    and i am sure over time more will come out in section like t3 was made,its not able recreating t3 but giving us cannon level design to have more fan mission made
    Some of us just aren't interested in most fan missions. I like the original games and storylines, with full briefing videos, voice acted conversations etc. Most fan missions only have a text intro and few voiced npc conversations, and I don't really have much patience for sifting through hundreds of fan missions to find the few that are the complete package. Besides that I really prefer to play campaigns over single missions.
    As a result very few fan projects (i.e T2X), make the cut for me. I'd much rather play The Cabal rather than Thief's Rising for example, even though Thief's Rising has expansive maps, it lacks intro videos and in game context sensitive npc conversations.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2014
    Location: Dunwall
    I donīt think this is actually necessary. There isnīt much water in Thief 3 in general and it would be too much effort for to little gain.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: May 2010
    It would be nice to see swimming garrett in thief 3, only if it's possible.
    My first thief experience was 3, even I didn't know garrett could swim before at that time,
    Instant drowning accident was a most ridiculous memory I ever had in thief 3.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by User 205 View Post
    I donīt think this is actually necessary. There isnīt much water in Thief 3 in general and it would be too much effort for to little gain.
    Raising the height of the ground beneath the water line is "too much effort"? I'm glad FM authors don't have that attitude.
    Implementing a full on swimming/diving/breath meter etc like in the original games would certainly be too much effort, that's why I titled this thread "quick and dirty".
    The fact that there aren't a lot of deep water areas in Thief 3 is what makes this method even easier to implement.
    Anyways I'm not one to argue on and on, if you don't like the idea/don't understand the concept of the implementation that's fine. The idea is here for anyone who wants to apply it, assuming there aren't hardcoded engine limitations that insta kill Garret as soon as he touches the deeper water.

  11. #11
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    You might get more response to this proposal in the Thief III Editor's Guild. I don't know how often they wander over here to ThiefGen.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    i played t3 to 100% on each day ,fan missions are all that keep me into thief anymore

    and as someone else posted not much water in t3 and it wouldent add much to game

    even rope arrows wont work well in t3 as not much is wood to stick things into

    t3 in my views was nothing more then better graphics,everything else is better in older thief games

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