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Thread: Being immigrated in France what can happen to me if Marine Le Pen wins the elections

  1. #101
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvester View Post
    For example, the 32 hour workweek was described as an actual proposition of Mélenchon.
    The only reasonable thing one could do with the 35 hour week would be to abolish it altogether. To even consider reducing it further is utterly preposterous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Well, officially you all still are, and may yet still be, depending on who does what when and why.
    Not a chance. The Tories are about to win a landslide majority with a manifesto promise to exit not just the EU, but the single market altogether. That ship is sailing over the horizon.

  2. #102
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Yeah, I guess you're all fucked.

    But don't worry, I'll send you letters from the first world on occasion, talking about how great everything is.

    ...at least until we do the same thing, opening up the playing field for a Chinese century. Pax Zhong-Guo, here we come!

  3. #103
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    But don't worry, I'll send you letters from the first world on occasion, talking about how great everything is.
    Don't bother, we'll probably have to pay import duty on them.

  4. #104
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    We all know where unpopular import duties lead.

    Maybe France will be on your side this time!

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvester View Post
    The Dutch news doesn't tell me everything.
    That's probably the most important lesson of these past election years. Media can't be trusted in isolation and you have to work to get good info, especially on these subjects. Obviously I don't include fake news and shit like that, but I now go to a much larger range of news channels and papers than before, including outside my political bubble, and it was very enlightening to see the way candidates were favored over others and the subtleties of the mechanics of propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    I am in favor for a Federal Europe, united we're stronger and happier.
    Me too, but before we can do that people need to realise the EU we've been sold for 70 years has nothing to do with such a vision.
    Last edited by raph; 26th Apr 2017 at 07:55.

  6. #106
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher View Post
    We all know where unpopular import duties lead.
    Ha. The British are too inert to do anything about that.

    At the moment, anything I buy from outside the EU worth more than £12 attracts 20% import VAT, and - wait for it - an £8 Royal Mail "handling charge".

    So if I buy something marked on the customs form at a value of £20, it costs me a further £12, and that's before you factor in shipping costs.

    Now that we're leaving the EU, I can look forward to being extorted on things I buy from the continent in this manner too.

    It is thievery, pure and simple.

  7. #107
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Is it really thievery when the party losing the cash not only gives their blessing to the purported thieves, but actually insists they behave like that and don't allow them to act otherwise? Remember some of those sellers may be terrorists. Or Poles. Or terrorist Poles. (You gotta watch out for the ones obsessed with molotov cocktails.)

    Right, right, French bread. Uh. Speaking of terrorism, is there a chance any surprise even could bump the election to LePen? Both Trump & Brexit benefited from a last minute BS bump, Trump with the Comey statement (investigating Hillary) and Brexit with the freed up money for the NHS business.

  8. #108
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Girl with the Patreon Tattoo
    Certainly but I think that a nice scandal over a well-loved politician or an UE entity would work even better.

  9. #109
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: uk
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    It is thievery, pure and simple.
    The £8 or the VAT?

    At the moment if you buy something from within the EU you have to pay whatever the VAT is in the country it was sold from, there's no paperwork to fill in and you don't have to pay any customs processing charge to the courier.
    So depending on what you're buying, where from and what it costs you may actually pay *less* tax on it if it comes from outside the customs union depending on whether the £8 royal mail charge is more or less than the difference in VAT.

    If the VAT bothers you that much you can always get the sender to fill in the CN23 incorrectly, it's the receiver's responsibility to make sure it's correct...

  10. #110
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    SD - Funny you mention that since there’s a debate going on right now about whether the US should apply a 20% border adjustment tax combined with a corporate tax rate reduction to 20%, as a way to normalize taxes paid by US companies importing and exporting to/from the EU and European companies importing and exporting to/from the US, without the US adopting a VAT.

    One thing I never understood about the TTIP negotiations was how the incentives and disincentives resulting from different tax policies could be left off the table.

  11. #111
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Here's Krugman talking about VATS and border adjustment taxes:

    https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-step-wonkish/

  12. #112
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    To whoever said Macron was the best candidate... Yeah, no, he's the worst of the worst. A wolf in sheep's clothing. He's also the most right-wing of the bunch. Le Pen is mostly irrelevant, she's just there to serve as a stepping stone to get her opponent elected with certainty, as has been explained multiple times here. And she's the most left-wing candidate with Mélenchon. Well, not her personally, but her program and her electorate most definitely. You people seem to have it all backwards. On the left you've got the working class, on the right the ones who exploit the working class. It's not that hard to figure out.

    Granted Le Pen is a millionaire born in a rich family, who's never had to work a day in her life and who got to where she is now through nepotism, so I can see why you'd get confused. But whose fault is it, if the working class is defended by a racist bourgeoise? The so-called "left" stopped defending workers' rights around the Mittérand era. Too much trouble. Leave those ideas to the FN, that way anyone who tries to tackle those complex issues will automatically be likened to a fascist. Same goes with the EU really. Why bother with that can of worms? Just give it to the FN, and voilà ! Wanting to leave the EU becomes the equivalent of being a Nazi.

    Anyway, in normal circumstances, she wouldn't stand a chance. But against Macron? That incompetent, arrogant moron just handed her the biggest opportunity of her life. Whoever's elected now, we're screwed. We'll have the most hated government and president in our history, an ungovernable country with protests everyday and an indefinitely renewed state of emergency. It will just be different groups stirring shit up, depending on who's elected: labour movements with Macron, antifas with Le Pen.

    We can all thank the media for this wonderful conundrum we find ourselves in.

  13. #113
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinatedzombeh View Post
    The £8 or the VAT?

    All of it. If I buy something in one territory, and pay all applicable sales taxes upon it within that territory, it is utterly ridiculous that I then get hit a second time merely for bringing that item across a wholly arbitrary line in the dirt.

    I would eradicate all tariffs and duties tomorrow, and the world would be a much better place for it. Free trade, imagine that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manwe View Post
    To whoever said Macron was the best candidate... Yeah, no, he's the worst of the worst.
    If you ever needed more evidence that Macron is the best of the bunch...

  14. #114
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: uk
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    All of it. If I buy something in one territory, and pay all applicable sales taxes upon it within that territory, it is utterly ridiculous that I then get hit a second time merely for bringing that item across a wholly arbitrary line in the dirt.

    I would eradicate all tariffs and duties tomorrow, and the world would be a much better place for it. Free trade, imagine that.
    Generally sales tax on exports is 0, the buyer pays the relevant sales tax in the country they're in (The VAT you're moaning about) + whatever duties are applicable (presumably 0 since you're not moaning about them) + a fee to whoever brought it through customs and paid the VAT to HMRC on your behalf, if you don't want to pay the £8 then go and pick it up from HMRC yourself.
    If you think £8 is the end of the world try living on an island.

    I'm unsure what any of this has to do with elections in France though.

  15. #115
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    If you ever needed more evidence that Macron is the best of the bunch...
    While I hate to give support to Manwe, Macron is far from the best of the bunch. The whole array of choices, as with most choices in politics, were a shit sandwich. Fillon was basically using the public's money to share out among his family, Mélenchon talked a nice bit of socialist passion, but then inserts the occasional bit of rhetoric which is so nuts, it just makes you worried about what he could do if in power (oh, and he wants France out of the EU), Le Pen is, well Le Pen, Macron is basically mister no-soul-I'm-going-to-carry-on-with-the-whole-neoliberal-destruction-of-worker-rights-to-feed-the-rich. Hamon seemed OK I guess, but Mélenchon's posturing seemed to go over for all of the tiresome reasons which are sweeping the globe right now (whatever sounds the most anti-establishment wins) and ripped Hamon's base from under him. The remainder I'm less sure of, as I don't get a vote, and am too busy to look into everyone.

    Right now, I'm of the opinion that Macron is still better than Le Pen (but then again, so is a plastic turd with googly eyes on it), but he's by no means a good thing.

  16. #116
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Lol, Marine Le Pen promised she would celebrate her victory in a Portuguese Restaurant if she were to win, what the heck? to shut it down later...

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    (oh, and he wants France out of the EU),
    Oh come one, how can you continue spreading these misrepresentations all the time, people. Being in favor of a renegotiation of the treaties is not the same as wanting out. The only way you can negotiate is if you're ready to go all the way if need be, and leave the table (Plan B) but it's the nuclear option, France is too big for this to happen. This would force the hand of everyone, especially Germany who's been riding this super sweet deal for the last 70 years, what with the Bundesbank being all powerful on exchange rates, on how the ECB should be structured and ran. It's time to stop this crazy unlimited expansion to the East to include countries that are not ready to be members, so that multinationals can blackmail the richer ones to adopt lower wages and worse conditions or else see their businesses go abroad. It's time to stop dictating all this austerity disaster that's slowly asphyxiating entire countries and fattening a handful of leeches' pockets. Look at Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, you want France to be next? You want kids to emigrate en masse because there are no jobs and no money at home? It's a sucky deal that works just for them, and it's time to stop pretending it's all right because it's screwing over everyone else.

    That's the Europe we've got. I don't want to leave the EU, but I think it has more to offer than that. France has an inflated opinion of itself, but it's the only country capable of forcing a renegotiation of this scale, though that's only if we want to. We'll see again in five years.

  18. #118
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    in almost every French channel in the tv and radio i hear all the time "Marine Le Pen", the media might want her to win with so much propaganda.

  19. #119
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    The troubling stat I saw was that 81% of the people that voted for Le Pen did so "de conviction", and only 58% for Macron (the rest just voting for him "par default"). Add that with this "boycott the vote" business, and I think if that catches on it's clear people not voting would be Macron voters, and right there is Le Pen's path forward.

  20. #120
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    ...the media might want her to win with so much propaganda.
    There's a lot of talk about what the media wants, but what each media channel absolutely requires in order to continue existing is ratings, and colorful extremists are just so much less boring than bland centrists.

  21. #121
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by raph View Post
    That's the Europe we've got. I don't want to leave the EU, but I think it has more to offer than that. France has an inflated opinion of itself, but it's the only country capable of forcing a renegotiation of this scale, though that's only if we want to. We'll see again in five years.
    Hey, I agree - if I got it wrong about Mélenchon, then I apologise - bear in mind that I'm watching the news with French as a second language, so I may have misinterpreted stuff.

  22. #122
    Ah, my bad I thought you were native French from your location... Well the thing is, unless you followed his meetings or read his programs it was nigh impossible to see what his position on Europe really was because both media and opponents constantly compared him to Le Pen and Asselineau and their Frexit bullshit.
    The last week before the 23rd was particularly bad as they latched on that now (in)famous Bolivarian alliance, pretending his goal was to ditch the EU to join Iran and Russia and Cuba and Venezuela in a great marxist partnership. With the ill-timed protests in Venezuela, no wonder people got scared...

  23. #123
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by raph View Post
    Well the thing is, unless you followed his meetings or read his programs it was nigh impossible to see what his position on Europe really was because both media and opponents constantly compared him to Le Pen and Asselineau and their Frexit bullshit.
    Mélenchon and Le Pen have the exact same stance regarding the EU: vague, evasive, full of contradictions and extremely dishonest. It can be summed up as "let's renegotiate the EU treaties" or "let's change the EU", which is what every party and politician has been promising to do for the last twenty years, and is absolutely impossible in practice. It's also a very nationalist, aggressive and dictatorial stance. Basically they want to impose the will of France on the other European countries, because you know, fuck democracy. In that sense, you could say they are very pro-EU.

    The only candidate proposing to leave the EU, serenely and peacefully, through article 50, so that we can have our own politics without imposing our will on anyone, is Asselineau. And he's been proposing that for 10 years, he didn't wait for fucking Brexit to happen. All the anti-EU rhetoric of Mélenchon and Le Pen was pilfered from his analyses and conferences.

  24. #124
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Lille, France
    I will vote and not for Le Pen, she's a real danger for our nation, see how the FN mayors rule their city, it's a financial, cultural and social catastrophe.

    I'm afraid about abstention that will favor Le Pen.

    Comics in french that said it all :


  25. #125
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I'm still reeling from the bare-faced cynicism of Le Pen ditching FN to try to scoop up Fillon supporters because she knows she is done.

    While I'd still prefer him over Le Pen, I'm not looking forward to going through another Tony Blair presidency. The first one was bad enough.

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