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Thread: The Dark Project - Unreal Engine 4

  1. #26
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Similar projects on moddb have been taken down.

  2. #27
    Registered: Sep 2004
    that's why I'm saying "usually".

  3. #28
    Thank for all replies,

    Seems It will not make sense to continue to this Project because they will shut me down in any case.
    I take a break for a while, after I'll try to find team and think about a new Thief Inspired game.

  4. #29
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Yeah it's too bad. I've often fantasized about having us fans be able to purchase the IP. Consider it sort of good because now you don't have to do all that work The original missions were very tightly designed, just adding desk to that area in training broke the design, unless you created new areas the player would find having mantled unto the upper ledge off the desk. Not to leave out, the design of some of the mission were some of the best in gaming history, hard to emulate (not sure if there is a easy inport method or not). I really appreciate being able to see that keeper area so beautiful though, so thank you.

  5. #30
    Registered: Aug 2009
    That mod is just different enough from Thief that it could pass. You can keep what you have until now, and take into a different direction afterward, instead of recreating the whole game

  6. #31
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Southquarter
    Looks great, well done! An indie game in the spirit of Thief would be definitely very welcome here. Should you need a 2d artist, let me know.
    There are/were such games in the making, but I think apart from The Dark Mod nothing was released.

  7. #32
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by dawnstream View Post
    It will not make sense to continue to this Project because they will shut me down in any case.
    as I've said, as long as there is no money involved, and your product requires the original game to work, you should be quite safe - this is pretty much how every source port or engine clone out there operates. so make sure to slap a giant red REQUIRES A LEGAL COPY OF THE ORIGINAL GAME sticker onto everything publicly available, and you will be allright. probably.

    anyway, the first thing to worry about should be whether you actually can put together a team of people capable of completing such a project with no money involved - most projects bite the the dust simply because there is too much work and too few people, not C&D letters.

  8. #33
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Probably true, but I think even just what he's completed to date would be shut down if he released it publicly.

  9. #34
    But that disclaimer makes no sense, as it's UE4 and it doesn't require any of the original games. Noone would fall for that. It's better to make something of your own, and I hope Dawnstream manages to do that

  10. #35
    Registered: Sep 2004
    well that's the point, the product needs to require the original game (files) to run to be considered fair use. just like ZDoom, T2X, XL Engine, EDuke32 etc. in this case, only the sound files would be required (as everything else would be recreated from scratch), so he pretty much has to make ownership of the original game a requirement one way or another (as there is no way he'd get away with redistributing the original Thief sound files).

    anyway, as I was saying, his first problem will be finding (and keeping around) enough skilled people, no matter what he decides to make - don't underestimate just how much work such a project would be. even with about half a dozen of very dedicated workers, he will still be looking at years of work.
    Last edited by voodoo47; 27th Apr 2017 at 18:21.

  11. #36
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Oh my... This looks incredible! I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do with this. The legality of distributing this is obviously an issue, however.

  12. #37
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2016
    The simplest solution, i would think, is to go down the Dark Mod route. Instead of a reboot, a Reimagining; Different character name, location/mission names, etc. Build a world around your work; City name, district names, that kind of thing. And don't call it Thief anything. Names off the top of my head here... Rogue's Shadow, Shadow of the Rogue, Shadow Walker. I'm no writer or lawyer. Just my 2 cents.

    Love what you're doing though! If you ever need a beta tester let me know

  13. #38
    Registered: Oct 2016
    Location: The Warp
    Agreed. From what you've shown you have talent, and with a team you could probably produce something really good (so long as you don't go the Thief 4 route of trying to pander to a general audience and going "LOOK AT US, WE'RE DARK AND GRITTY! DON'T YOU PEOPLE LIKE THAT? DID WE MENTION WE'RE GRITTY? AND DARK? AND WE HAVE DLC THAT WANTS TO BE MICROTRANSACTIONS WITHOUT EXPLICITLY BEING MICROTRANSACTIONS?" in everyone's faces.

  14. #39
    Registered: Aug 2001
    I agree, if this would require the original game for the sound files, it should be okay legally speaking. And for a truthful remake you would have to use the original sounds. So first you need to install your legal copy of Thief, and then this remake which will pull the sound files from it. Hopefully this comes to fruition.

  15. #40
    Registered: May 2004
    I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt requiring the assets would make it fair use and okay legally. Even if you don't use a single asset from the game, you'd still be making use of the characters, locations, etc. And fair use applies for things like commentary, criticism, parody, etc. In any case, it would depend on the judge's decision.

    Realistically, I think the only options are to either get a license or hope that Squeenix turns a blind eye, which companies sometimes do (partly because it's costly to pursue people who don't have a lot of money and partly because it instils "brand loyalty").

    Edit: here's an article I found that talks a bit about this:

    Layers of Protection

    Games aren’t all about code. Just because you wrote your clone or fan game from scratch does not guarantee that it is legal. The intellectual property contained in a video game is truly vast. For instance the copyrights alone may include (but are by no means limited to):

    Audiovisual display
    Sound recordings
    Voice recordings
    Background drawings
    Sprite drawings
    Musical compositions
    Source Code
    Object Code

    Furthermore, you have trademark, trade dress and unfair competition claims in the original work to worry about, including:

    Game name
    Company name
    Character names
    Character appearance and clothing
    The game’s look and feel
    Game packaging

    And last but not least, you may even have some random claims out of left field by game actors/SAG members, including:

    Name and likeness
    Privacy rights

    If you use any of this in your “clone” game, you may draw unwanted attention and create a legal risk for yourself. The Tetris Company has relied on several of the above-mentioned rights, including "look and feel" under both trademark and copyright law, to enforce IP rights against games that closely resemble its product.

    Furthermore, the risk of legal action isn't limited to clones of video game products. Creating a video game clone of board games, card games, and the like could create just as many problems. One famous example is the suit brought by Hasbro against the developers of Scrabulous, a well-known Facebook application.

    As far as programming and code goes, commonplace commands are exceptions to the general rule of copyright protection. This is notable only because the most frequent argument I’ll hear concerning a person’s clone or fan game is that the “code is different” or that they “created the game from scratch”.

    Unfortunately, the law doesn’t really care, and is not on your side here if you relied on or used any of the other elements noted above. Even if you create the images, sound recordings, etc. from scratch, if those same components are clearly derived or ripped off from the original game, all your hard work may mean absolutely nothing from a legal perspective.
    Last edited by Starker; 30th Apr 2017 at 18:48.

  16. #41
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2016
    WOW you caused me to come out of lurking for many years, this is amazing!!!

  17. #42
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt requiring the assets would make it fair use and okay legally.
    when in doubt, google it - and you will find out that there are many, many comprehensive mods, fan updates, overhauls for games that replace up to 90% of the original files (textures, music, objects, levels, even executables and dlls) out there, and they haven't been C&D'd. they have one thing in common - they do nothing unless you already own the original game.

  18. #43
    Googling doesn't replace knowledge of the law, or reading EULAs for that matter. And every license agreement in the world states that you can't disassemble, reverse-engineer, copy, distribute, create derivative works, etc. without permission. Even a translation constitutes derivative work, not to mention messing with game files. Just because corporations don't take action right now, it doesn't mean that you're not infringing their copyright laws. It's stupid to invest so much time and effort in your work, knowing it can be taken down any minute. And really, that kind of attitude, where you think everyone is much dumber than you, and they probably won't notice – someday you may be surprised how small that group of people is.

    Also, this discussion is kind of irrelevant now, as Dawnstream already made his mind. I hope he makes a great game; so far we can be sure it will have a great art style

  19. #44
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    Im going to get rid of NewDark right now.
    No more DDS, PNG textures or even subtitles for us to enjoy.

  20. #45
    Registered: May 2004
    It's so legal a raven has to drop new builds in the middle of the night.

  21. #46
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    I don't know what is not being understood. The owners are people, people who purchased it to make profit, UE4 is new enough to compete with their own releases. They are not bots that can be exploited with a loophole. It's not about selling the old game for the purchasers of the IP, it's about selling something to main audiences for profit. Trust me, this is a badass thing I wish could come out, but DarkMod route is best.

  22. #47
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    I'm not sure either party would really care. It's an anonymous patch that makes the game run better, thus leading to more sales. Who would even sue who? There are no losers in this deal. But voodoo47 probably knows more.

  23. #48
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Eidos/SE can sue whoever they want, whenever they want. It's not like murder has been committed and the police are going to come knocking on your door.

  24. #49
    Registered: May 2004
    GOG can use NewDark because the author in its readme actually allows its use, IIRC.

  25. #50
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Think about that for a second. You're saying Le Corbeau has the right to tell GOG they can legally use a hacked Thief.exe?

    Permission is granted to any party that has obtained the legal rights to sell the original (v1.18 or
    earlier) game, such as GOG and Steam, to include this update, as long as they also have been granted
    permission by Eidos/Square Enix to do so.
    Last edited by Brethren; 1st May 2017 at 13:37.

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