TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 118

Thread: Manchester Terrorist Attack

  1. #26
    This has nothing to do with Islamophobia or xenophobia. It's not about white supremacists or white racists. It's not about whether our own homegrown Christianity is better than other religions. The struggle is between humanitarianism and retarded old backwards religions that want us to turn away from universal human rights, equality, fraternity and liberty. How the fuck can a modern human being support religion in any form ?
    You're demonstrating a fairly massive ignorance of what is actually in many religions. Do you know why women had property rights in the middle ages and witch burning didn't take off until the Renaissance era? It's because the Church was one of the most progressive institutions in the world at the time. Similarly some of the Eastern religions have promoted peaceful lifestyles.


    What you are attributing to "religion" is simply true of Literalist Abrahamic religion. and now extinct pagan sects that were tied to tribal identities.



    I don't understand why it is exactly the left-wing political parties that keep defending religion. Religion is not a hobby. Religion is the biggest conservative power in the world. Religion is the enemy.
    Because those left-wing political parties hate Christianity more than they do Islam, and on some level see Islam as a useful ally.


    But back to the original point...I've linked this a lot, but it is worth repeating: http://www.cracked.com/article_20186...-believes.html





    The Myth: Women Were Treated as Cattle

    Europe during the Middle Ages is right up there with Taliban-ruled Afghanistan in the Top 5 Places It Would Suck to Have a Vagina. Women were horribly oppressed and were treated as second-class citizens -- their only responsibilities were to cook, clean, and squeeze out (male) babies on demand.

    The Reality:

    Up until about 200 years ago, Europe was a largely agricultural society. And the funny thing about back-breaking and often dehumanizing labor is that it has a weird way of equalizing people -- when literally every member of the family is out busting his or her ass every morning just to fend off the very real threat of starvation, gender roles and sexism suddenly don't seem all that important. Thus, when it came to household responsibilities, women and men were equals by default, since the women had to do all the same bullshit their husbands had to do. So should time travel ever become a thing, never tell a medieval peasant woman to go make her husband a sandwich, because she'll probably cackle her plague-breath all up in your face before snapping you in half like a twig.

    And the story wasn't much different in the cities. If dad owned a shop or a tavern, his daughters were the ones helping out. Sometimes a daughter would actually take over the family business and run it herself if her father became unable to, something that wouldn't really happen until much later in modern society. Women also generally ran the taverns in the Middle Ages -- in fact, women once ran England's entire beer industry. It's not quite clear when that changed, but we have to assume that at some point men realized they had allowed women to become all powerful by letting them be in charge of both beer and vaginas.


    Women who weren't busy running taverns or growing crops to survive could join a convent, which may not sound all that impressive until you realize that this gave them access to education in a time when that was extremely rare -- nuns could read and write in an age when the most powerful kings couldn't. And if they stuck with it long enough to become the abbess of a convent, they were in a position of power very similar to a male lord -- only, you know, maybe even a little higher, seeing as how they technically reported directly to the King of Kings and all.
    Caveat is that it's fairly clear when that changed: it changed after the Renaissance saw secular nobility become the dominant force over shaping social values and promptly rolled back many of the civil rights that had existed when the church dominated social value.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 23rd May 2017 at 13:09.

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Europe has made their bed, let them enjoy sleeping in it.
    You really are an absolute dick.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Lille, France
    My condolences to the families who have lost their children and parents.

  4. #29
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    "Suspected terrorist attack".

    Yup, someone brought a nail-bomb to a children's party by mistake. Too bad it went off. He didn't intend to. Probably an honest mistake. No way we can say if this was a terrorist attack or not.

    Also no speculation who is responsible. So many different people and factions who have blown up innocent people with pressure-cookers with nailbombs inside them over the last years. We have absolutely no idea who did it. No idea at all.
    Yeah, that's the problem with media these days. Not enough speculation. They shouldn't wait for official word about what the investigation yields, they should just print what they guess happened!

    Seriously, Gryz.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    The best thing to do when crazy things happen is to go crazy right along with it.

  6. #31
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by SD View Post
    If precedent is any indication, this was probably an attack by Islamists, and it was probably perpetrated by someone who was born here, not immigrants.
    Born in Manchester, apparently.

  7. #32
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    Yeah, that's the problem with media these days. Not enough speculation. They shouldn't wait for official word about what the investigation yields, they should just print what they guess happened!

    Seriously, Gryz.
    "The children of Manchester are pulling pieces of other humans' flesh out of their hair and people are worried about following proper procedures of reporting news".

    (I didn't come up with that).

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn
    "We can mourn the dead, despise ISIS and maintain proper procedures of reporting news at the same time. Don't spread the idea we're not capable of complex thought."

    (I didn't come up with that either).

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    "The children of Manchester are pulling pieces of other humans' flesh out of their hair and people are worried about following proper procedures of reporting news".
    What happened is of course sad and tragic, but it's still not a reason to forget the facts. Whenever something like this happens, all the terrorist organisations crawl out of their holes and claim responsibility for the attack, even if they have nothing to do with it. Daesh may or may not be behind the Manchester terror strike, we can't say that for sure yet, but I think it'd be really stupid to give them free publicity without checking the facts first, because that's exactly what they want.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Thor is making the mistake that many people make. They mix the cause of terrorism (in this case the (exteme) ideas taken from Islam) with the fix (ban all immigrants). That's no good. It won't help much to ban all immigrants. Someone who wants to cause harm could just get a vacation-visum for 3 months. Or enter illegally via Greece. Or marry a cousin in Europe. Whatever. And, if you want to keep up the appearance of impartiality, you can't say "let's ban all muslim immigrants".

    But what to do then ?

    I think the first step would be to stop considering religion as something innocent. Stop thinking of it as an individual spiritual experience. We've taken away a lot of the power of the christian churches during the twentieth century. And if you didn't know any better, you'd think that christianity has always been about old people going to church on Sunday morning, singing a few songs to praise their lord, and reading a chapter from their own fairytale-book. But that's not what religion is about. Christianity has not always been like that.

    Religion is a political force. It's goal is to acquire power, dominance, wealth, influence. Christianity went out into the world to convert everybody to become a christian. Some forces in Islam are doing the same thing today. Everybody bend for Allah, submit yourself to Islam law. Or else you are a heathen and you deserve no better than to die. This is politics. This is power-play. This is a war. I consider myself left from left. I don't understand why it is exactly the left-wing political parties that keep defending religion. Religion is not a hobby. Religion is the biggest conservative power in the world. Religion is the enemy.

    And again, for the majority of followers of religion, it's not like that. They are not aware. They are not responsible for what others do. You can't blame them individually. But the ideas that they get implanted in their heads do matter. Look at Indonesia and what is happening there. Islam forces are trying to turn the country back to the middle ages. Look at Turkey. Look at how Saudi-Arabia is spreading Wahabism in Europe.

    This has nothing to do with Islamophobia or xenophobia. It's not about white supremacists or white racists. It's not about whether our own homegrown Christianity is better than other religions. The struggle is between humanitarianism and retarded old backwards religions that want us to turn away from universal human rights, equality, fraternity and liberty. How the fuck can a modern human being support religion in any form ?
    Yeah, going after terrorists isn't good enough. Can't stop at radical Islamism either. Not even a war on all of Islam, that won't do. It's got to be a war against all religious people, to eradicate all religion! Why not just nuke the entire planet Gryz? Since obviously the root of the problem is HUMANS!

  11. #36
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    Yep. Even if we don't have religion, we'll find something else ostensibly good to use in horrifying ways, don't you worry.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    At this point I've become somewhat cold to this kind of thing, because the only thing we're going to get out of this is sanctimony as everyone rushes to show off how much they care.

    Europe has made their bed, let them enjoy sleeping in it.
    fuck

    you

    tony

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia
    It'd be interesting to see if he would have thought the US had 'made it's bed' when the Gallianists were running around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Caveat is that it's fairly clear when that changed: it changed after the Renaissance saw secular nobility become the dominant force over shaping social values and promptly rolled back many of the civil rights that had existed when the church dominated social value.
    This is about the most simplistic reading of that period of history possible. There was the Reformation and the numerous wars of religion during this period and none of it was particularly secular. We tend to think of Protestants as the kinder gentler Christianity now, but they were the ones stripping the paint off churches for being too colourful. By our standards they basically represent fundamentalist religious insurgency, with the added bonus of the doctrine being almost roll-your-own for a while there. (although looking at a good chunk of US religion today all of this is less surprising really)

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Draggy the Dragons house
    Hey Muz, you still making films and such?

  15. #40
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    Yeah, going after terrorists isn't good enough. Can't stop at radical Islamism either. Not even a war on all of Islam, that won't do. It's got to be a war against all religious people, to eradicate all religion! Why not just nuke the entire planet Gryz? Since obviously the root of the problem is HUMANS!
    I asked: But what to do then ?

    I am a child of the seventies. In those days people had this idea that everything was slowly going to be better. The idea was: lets get rid of income-inequality slowly, so that the poor become less poor. So that the poor have time to do more than just survive. Get everybody educated. Have free and good education for all children. Raise our children to be smarter. More open-minded. Be free-thinkers. Teach them about the world. About other people and other cultures. Teach everybody about history. When the general population is educated, smart, open, enlightened even, then we will see less hatred, less oppression, less fighting, less war.

    That was the idea.

    I think just hoping for that won't work. Capitalism has won (think the capitalists). And ultra-capitalism and economic globalization is doing its work for 27 years now. Income and wealth inequality is growing again. There is less money for public education. Privatization of public means doesn't do us a lot of good. It looks like everything has to be "for profit", or else it is considered useless. And religion is crawling out of the garbage dump back into society. Now I don't like Christianity, but at least they stay low profile here in Europe. (USA is another story. Not a single atheist amongst 535 members of congress. That's a sure sign something is not right). But Islam is very obviously trying to spread its influence all over the world. Very noticeable in Islamic countries. Turkey and Indonesia are new members. But life in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan has been getting worse for decades. And Saudi-Arabia has terrible since forever.

    Maybe we should treat religion like we treat smoking: you're allowed to fuck up your own life, if you really want to. But you are not allowed to fuck up your children's life.

    So you can go to church. But you can't bring your kids until they are 21 years old. Special schools (catholic schools, islamic schools, even jewish schools) are forbidden. All schools must be public schools with no religious curriculum. Just one hour per week lesson in different world-views, religions, philosphy, etc. No brain-washing, no indoctrination. Children get a chance to grow up unbiased, and make up their own minds when they are 21.

    A bit like smoking weed in my country. You are allowed to smoke it. You can grow a few plants for you own usage. You can carry a few grams for you own usage. But you're not supposed to encourage others to smoke. You can't produce in large amounts, you can't sell to others, you can't do advertising. You wanna mess yourself up, fine. But don't spread your dumb attitude.

    I'm sure half the planet would hate such a policy. Because they are brainwashed believing in their own spaghetti-monster. And they were told they have to brain-wash their own children too. Or even worse, they are told to spread their religion to the heathens. Or even kill all those heathens (if they would get the opportunity).

    But in the end, there is a simple fact: there is no god. All religion is without foundation. It's all bullshit. But how do we get rid of it ?

    Got a better plan ?

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Draggy the Dragons house
    Yes, I do. But you need to send me $9.95 to hear about it.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    You’re not going to get rid of religion. It seems to be inherent to human nature. Cultures that developed in complete isolation from each other developed different religious beliefs and practices, but every culture adopted some form of religion.

    While it is true that the percentage of atheists and other non-religious people has increased over the last half century or so, most of that increase can be traced to the adoption of state atheism in the Soviet Union and China, and most of the worlds atheists are in China. The persecution of religion came and went over the lifetime of the Soviet Union, but religion always bounced back after the state lightened up. In China, eliminating religion was one of the goals of the cultural revolution that killed 30 million people. Since then, the Chinese state has continued to persecute organized religions and generally suppress the open practice of religion. If they liberalize, religion will probably bounce back there too.

    I think state atheism has the same negatives as state religion.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 210x200x64
    Prayers sent to my English brothers and sisters.

    Sliding off topic a bit...

    Now I'm a Christian but I don't do church but I tend to tow the party line so to speak. The rules and suggestions are spelled out and pretty simple to understand. They're just really hard to do sometimes. Here's where a lot of people go wrong and why a lot of people hate capitalism.

    1) God owns it all. You are just a steward of a tiny piece of it.

    2) God does not need your money. I think a lot of preachers haven't figured this one out. He made you in His image. God is generous. Just look at this nice big ball we ride on and up into space where (and of course this is when my cat jumps on my shoulder like he's a 16 pound scarf....one second...) it appears we have an endless supply of wonder to compel us to move forward, to learn, to seek and yes to struggle. Too much struggle is bad. Too little is even worse. God wants us to be generous because it is good for us to be that way. Generous people are liked, they're happy. They tend to prosper. They know how to SERVE. Service is the key to prosperity. You serve enough people well and rewards will come your way. Service mingled with generosity is the key. There's nothing wrong with piling up cash as long as you're doing both. Many a good business do the two. Now we can move on to the next point where many a business does not. But, many many people are greedy enough to let them.

    3) Many get behind the prosperity eight ball because they don't practice this one suggestion from God. It's not a salvation issue. It's just biblicaly dumb. Proverbs 22:7....the borrower is slave to the lender... Now you're behind the eight ball and it is hard to serve two masters. Broke people have a hard time being generous. Now sometimes life or God if you will, just deals you a shitty hand. But most people are behind because "they want it." "I work hard, I DESERVE a new X" No you don't quit yer whinging. You're like a kid in the food mart screaming for a box of Lucky Charms when mom is saying Corn Flakes.

    Trust me here. Visa, Discover, Master Card and AmEx, Well Fargo..... have a better plan for your money then most of you. Budget every month. Live on less than you bring home and stay away from consumer debt.

    People get out of school (with kilo bucks of debt) go buy a new car (more kilo bucks of debt) and then park it in the driveway of their new house (really more kilo bucks of debt) and wonder why the fuck they're not wining. Hey stupid! You might look good but you've got nothing left at the end of the month because Wells Fargo had a better plan for your money than you...'cause see...THEY'VE got it all! But it took two to tango. Greed on both parties part. Debt is the most successfully marketed product in the world today. So learn to delay pleasure and get it when you can afford it.

    There's nothing wrong with capitalism or religion. It's just many don't know how each is supposed to work. Or they know and are selfish enough to not follow the plan correctly...looking for a shortcut. There are no shortcuts. If it's worth doing, you've got to put in the time, the effort...you have to struggle a bit. I've been doing it for 50 years and I'm doing great and I never once fucked anybody over to get here. If you manage God's stuff well, he'll usually give you more to manage.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Indianapolis, IN
    this was probably an attack by Islamists, and it was probably perpetrated by someone who was born here, not immigrants.
    But the guy's parents were probably immigrants. Just like the Boston Marathon bombers. Just like Omar Mateen who shot up the gay club in Orlando. Just like Khalid Masood, who attacked the British Parliament.

    So, the parents just "come here for a better life" as people like to say. But then their children grow up and murder us. The obvious response is to stop immigration now, so we have fewer second-generation immigrants murdering us.

    I keep thinking Islam is going to cross some line that wakes you guys up, but apparently 12 year old girls getting a faceful of hot shrapnel wasn't the line. Oh well, you'll get another chance soon enough.

  20. #45
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    You’re not going to get rid of religion.
    I am afraid you are correct.
    But waiting until everybody gets enlightened is gonna take forever. Especially if religions are very active in keeping their nonsense alive, and spreading it even.

    It seems to be inherent to human nature.
    Religion is strongly linked to stupidity, cluelessness and ignorance. The higher educated a population is, the less religious it becomes. Claiming that religion is inherent to human nature is the same thing as claiming that shitting over your own shoes is inherit to human nature. There's this process of improvement, education, science, enlightenment that humans have been going through over the last millennia. We just need to find a way to include all of humankind into this process.

    The persecution of religion ....
    I'm not suggesting we persecute religion. That's the same as punishing stupid people for being stupid. Or trying to enforce prohibition. Or trying to make everyone stop smoking. Not gonna work. But we can try prevent it from spreading. Just like we don't allow children to drink or smoke. Make sure children do not consider "The Great White Bearded Guy, Up In The Clouds" to be anything else but a ridiculous idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyFoxx View Post
    The rules and suggestions are spelled out and pretty simple to understand.
    Dude, you do realize that Gods do not exist. And thus that their rules and suggestions have no extra value over any other rule-set that someone wrote down. Right ?

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    At this point I've become somewhat cold to this kind of thing, because the only thing we're going to get out of this is sanctimony as everyone rushes to show off how much they care.

    Europe has made their bed, let them enjoy sleeping in it.
    More like America made the bed for Europe. Europe just accepted it like a good whore.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Indianapolis, IN
    I don't see how America forced Europe to take in millions of migrants. Why are Poland and Hungary different, with their strong fences?

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Orange Grove
    Sensless violence. Murder, mayhem, and survivors suffering probable long term mental/emotional issues. Awful. Sickening.

    So many fingers pointing to all sorts of things as causes. The cause is evil. Pure and simple. Evil.

    The solution? I don't have one, at least that wouldn’t just breed more evil in a different form.

    My reaction is to keep alert, stay away from huge venues, “get in and get out quickly” from banks, stores, malls. One goal of terrorism is to make people like me “stay away”. It is working, to some extent.

    I sincerely hope that from this point forward there are zero terrorist attacks in Europe, or elsewhere for that matter, but I fear that will not be the case. Expect more of the same. ISIS is at war with you and pretty much the rest of the Earth. Their sleeper cells are cells of one person. Even if it proves that this guy acted alone and had zero contact with ISIS, he was very likely inspired by their extreme radical approach. Really what difference does it make if a person acts on orders or acts on inspiration? The end result is the same. Dead people.

    Depressing, unnecessary, evil.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    I keep thinking Islam is going to cross some line that wakes you guys up, but apparently 12 year old girls getting a faceful of hot shrapnel wasn't the line. Oh well, you'll get another chance soon enough.
    And no doubt you'll get a chance to show that you are a complete prick again too.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Indianapolis, IN

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •