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Thread: Manchester Terrorist Attack

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe

    Manchester Terrorist Attack

    Fatalities confirmed following Ariana Grande concert at the Manchester Arena.

    Explosion in the ticket foyer.

    Eyewitness estimates 20-30 casualties, many of them children.

    Grim.

    EDIT: NHS sources stating it was a nail bomb, yet to be confirmed.

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    A car plowed into 20 some odd people in Times Sq today too. I haven't read the latest news but I gather it wasn't terrorism, just a really troubled guy going on a rampage. Still makes it part of a bad day.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    Dema, that was four days ago.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    19 confirmed dead so far, 50 injured.

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Oh, combination of not getting US news, my friends only talking about it now, and the fact I'm a day ahead of the US as it is. Rotten week then.

    I don't know if there's much to talk about after a terrorist incident except to remember the victims. It's one of those issues where it's always very sad to see that it still happens.

  6. #6
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Really SD? Confirmed bomb? The BBC never says anything. It's like they want to keep us in the dark.

  7. #7

  8. #8
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    "Suspected terrorist attack".

    Yup, someone brought a nail-bomb to a children's party by mistake. Too bad it went off. He didn't intend to. Probably an honest mistake. No way we can say if this was a terrorist attack or not.

    Also no speculation who is responsible. So many different people and factions who have blown up innocent people with pressure-cookers with nailbombs inside them over the last years. We have absolutely no idea who did it. No idea at all.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: 1, Rotation: 0
    What's the point of writing such crap, Gryz? You're better than this.

  10. #10
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    I don't know about the BBC, I don't watch their news very often. But in the Netherlands some media have a tendency to try and avoid calling things like they are. All the time. I'm tired of that. If you ever want to make progress, improve the world, you should start calling things what they are.

    I'll give you an example. When the cartoonist at Charlie Hebdo were murdered, our media did their utmost best to not show a single cartoon from Charlie Hebdo that was about Islam. None. While that was the core of the issue. They all stood at the front yelling "je suis Charlie". But when it really matters, when it is about something as simple as "we will not let others tell us what we can laugh about", they bended their heads. In the wrong direction. Too careful. Too scared.

    The biggest mistake is that it seems they do this against "populist sentiment". Don't feed the populists. But by being so obviously politically correct, so obviously trying to not take sides, trying to be impartial, they actually do take sides. Or make it very much look like they take sides. The wrong side. And the "simple plebs" does see this. And they will start trusting main-stream media less and less. By being so careful they do actually encourage the general public towards the "populists".

    Last night, at 2:00 CET, the BBC was still not calling it a terrorist attack. While there were already reports mentioning a nail-bomb. Why the reluctance ? It irritated me. That's why I posted my post.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by hopper View Post
    What's the point of writing such crap, Gryz? You're better than this.
    Nah, it's just a bit of satire in regards to the usual laughable media's coverage of these events. Otherwise more people might start thinking that things like immigration play a role these events and they can't have that (though I'm jumping several steps ahead here).

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    (though I'm jumping several steps ahead here).
    No shit.

    So far, there's no information yet on who the bomber was, let alone that he was an immigrant - in all likelihood, he may well be, but as of now this is not confirmed. As such, claiming that he is right now is simply irresponsible.

    The Borussia Dortmund bus bomber turned out to be someone completely unexpected too.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn
    Here we are.

    Now we know (more).

  14. #14
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by N'Al View Post
    As such, claiming that he is right now is simply irresponsible.
    Irresponsible ?
    Irresponsible to whom ?
    Irresponsible to Isis ?

    Are you suggesting we have a responsibility to not accuse the innocent until guilt has been proven ? Are you suggesting we have that same responsibility towards Isis ?

    I'll make it simple. I feel no responsibility towards Isis. I'll accuse them of doing horribly stuff whenever I feel like accusing them. If it turns out it wasn't them (a chance of 1 out of 10), I'll take back what I said. But I won't even apologize. They've done enough already that they deserve no sympathy at all. No politeness. No common decency. They deserve nothing.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn
    For someone who's so keen on 'calling things what they are' you are awfully keen on just making shit up before it's verified.

    This has nothing to do with sympathy or politeness or common decency. This has all to do with what is fact and what is not. At the time of your previous posting ISIS' involvement was NOT yet fact. Pretending otherwise is not 'calling things what they are', but simply lying.

    Now that we know they're involved, I'm all for calling them the shitbags that they are, no problem.

  16. #16
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    This is fact:
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/8...093377/photo/1

    Maybe indeed we should postpone our judgement about this. Like reasonable people. Honoring the law and the ideas behind modern judicial systems. Maybe Isis had a very good reason to bring a fragmentation bomb to a children's party. We don't know yet. Indeed we should wait for the police investigation. Hear what Isis has to say about the this specific case. Give them a chance to defend themselves. And then we'll wait until a judge has ruled about the case. And then maybe wait for the appeals. And then we can finally say what we think. Because if we respond too hastily, that would be irresponsible. Yep.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    I'm not really up to date with all the terrorisms, but how many have really been proven to been non-immigration (at least the explodey ones)? I mean, technically it's irresponsible to misinform, so saying "suspected terrorist attack" (or highly suspected might be better) is like the most technically correct way to phrase it (within like the first day or something). It's just that at the same time when it's confirmed a little later, the only possible response to pretty much all of these cases (like this one) is: "No shit."

    But yeah, tradeoffs. Want to be seen as holy and non-discriminatory by the gesture of letting pretty much anyone in your country? Swallow occasional swarm of innocent, senseless deaths. It's a transparent trade-off that politicians and obviously most people here are willing to make.
    If I, for instance, would be a country leader, I would just go with showing respect in other ways, such as minding my own turf... maybe participate in specific cases where it makes sense. Kinda like Switzerland and some other eastern europe countries. Glad I don't live in one of these overly multicultural terrorism countries, although it seems like we're slowly being forced down that route as well, because EU.

    An off-note: It's proven over and over again that global homogenization is a non-trivial process and it seems that forcing it does not bring much good. Maybe it will happen naturally, but it will probably take a while. Maybe it will never happen, as these inherited cultures have such a strong "will".
    Last edited by Thor; 23rd May 2017 at 10:37.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn

    Manchester Terrorist Attack

    @ Gryzemuis:

    If you're implying that I suggested any of that, then here's another fact for you: you're a bleeding idiot.
    Last edited by N'Al; 23rd May 2017 at 10:39.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    If I, for instance, would be a country leader, I would just go with showing respect in other ways, such as minding my own turf... maybe participate in specific cases where it makes sense. Kinda like Switzerland and some other eastern europe countries. Glad I don't live in one of these overly multicultural terrorism countries, although it seems like we're slowly being forced down that route as well, because EU.
    FYI, Switzerland has one of the highest percentages of migrants in the world. Just sayin'.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    Mentioning Switzerland wasn't the most illustrative example. But the takeaway is that Switzerland doesn't let just anyone in their country, specifically countries, whose cultures (or facets of them, anyway) are opposing on some fundamental levels. In other words, you won't see arabic people all over the place and hence you won't have terrorism all over the place. Tradeoffs.

    I don't suppose saying that I have nothing against arabs fundamentally and I am well aware that most of them are reasonably peaceful will convince the minds of those, whose greatest fear is to appear "racist", that I am, in fact, not that. To those people I can only say, that if you or your loved ones die in a terrorism attack - don't tell me you didn't ask for it on some level, because you did when you prioritized the image of being polit-correct (or however you can even call this) over that miniscule chance of being a victim yourself.

  21. #21
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Thor is making the mistake that many people make. They mix the cause of terrorism (in this case the (exteme) ideas taken from Islam) with the fix (ban all immigrants). That's no good. It won't help much to ban all immigrants. Someone who wants to cause harm could just get a vacation-visum for 3 months. Or enter illegally via Greece. Or marry a cousin in Europe. Whatever. And, if you want to keep up the appearance of impartiality, you can't say "let's ban all muslim immigrants".

    But what to do then ?

    I think the first step would be to stop considering religion as something innocent. Stop thinking of it as an individual spiritual experience. We've taken away a lot of the power of the christian churches during the twentieth century. And if you didn't know any better, you'd think that christianity has always been about old people going to church on Sunday morning, singing a few songs to praise their lord, and reading a chapter from their own fairytale-book. But that's not what religion is about. Christianity has not always been like that.

    Religion is a political force. It's goal is to acquire power, dominance, wealth, influence. Christianity went out into the world to convert everybody to become a christian. Some forces in Islam are doing the same thing today. Everybody bend for Allah, submit yourself to Islam law. Or else you are a heathen and you deserve no better than to die. This is politics. This is power-play. This is a war. I consider myself left from left. I don't understand why it is exactly the left-wing political parties that keep defending religion. Religion is not a hobby. Religion is the biggest conservative power in the world. Religion is the enemy.

    And again, for the majority of followers of religion, it's not like that. They are not aware. They are not responsible for what others do. You can't blame them individually. But the ideas that they get implanted in their heads do matter. Look at Indonesia and what is happening there. Islam forces are trying to turn the country back to the middle ages. Look at Turkey. Look at how Saudi-Arabia is spreading Wahabism in Europe.

    This has nothing to do with Islamophobia or xenophobia. It's not about white supremacists or white racists. It's not about whether our own homegrown Christianity is better than other religions. The struggle is between humanitarianism and retarded old backwards religions that want us to turn away from universal human rights, equality, fraternity and liberty. How the fuck can a modern human being support religion in any form ?

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    I don't really know how to solve a problem that's already matured. I don't care for this issue that much (don't have this problem in my country).
    I'm more about not letting problems like that to mature in the first place.

    Although I think a ban would still reduce, maybe even neutralize terrorism, because those alternative ways to get in a country could prove to be enough of an obstacle. But who knows. Also maybe there could be alternative methods to a "ban", like an interview with a lie detector. It's a pain in the ass, but probably better than nothing. Have we even seen the results of a ban to know that it won't help?

    Religion can be used for good, but yeah it's a political force just like anything else. Btw, media is a religious force too. The narrative and the "side picked" is already predetermined and everything that follows is only to convince your belief of this side and they're not going to flip their narrative. Not most of the media anyway. It's just a less fairy-tale approach, because that shit simply doesn't fly anymore with the technological revolution.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    If precedent is any indication, this was probably an attack by Islamists, and it was probably perpetrated by someone who was born here, not immigrants.

    The solution to things like this will not involve excluding people from the country because they have dark skin, but will include preventing young native Muslims from becoming radicalised.

    Someone more cynical than myself may observe that the biggest promoter of radical Islam happens to be that oil rich nation on the Arabian peninsula with whom our leaders are falling over themselves to do multi-billion dollar deals.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Hehe, true that. It's an overwhelming task. For the rest of the countries it's best to just keep to themselves.

  25. #25
    At this point I've become somewhat cold to this kind of thing, because the only thing we're going to get out of this is sanctimony as everyone rushes to show off how much they care.

    Europe has made their bed, let them enjoy sleeping in it.

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