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Thread: Do optional settings to make a game easier really ruin it?

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by TannisRoot View Post
    Why not play Zelda then?
    You're offering to buy me a couple of Nintendo consoles and a bunch of games in a series I have absolutely zero nostalgia for?

    But seriously, please tell me why it would be terrible if the Souls games had optional ingame systems that explained the ways you can make them less frustrating to play for those who are less skilled but want to get into the genre. I still haven't heard an answer to that beyond "git gud", "read guides" and "it's not meant for you".

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by 242 View Post
    From trophy stats in PSN. Sometimes trophies for completed hardest mode show only 1% or less. I was surprised too.
    I'm not sure if that is a good measurement to go by, since a lot of people who get games don't actually finish them on any difficulty. Plus, that's just one platform.

    I'm about to make the same fallacy, but only 35.5% of people who own XCOM 2 on Steam have finished the game on any difficulty.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2014
    What exactly needs explaining?

  4. #54
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Buccura View Post
    I'm not sure if that is a good measurement to go by, since a lot of people who get games don't actually finish them on any difficulty.
    And most likely they didn't finish those games because they thought they were waaay to easy ....

    Thank god for a difficulty setting in Prey. After an hour, I switched from normal to easy. If that had not been possible, I probably would have stopped playing. I like what I saw so far, and I want to see more. But not at the cost of hours of frustrating shooter gameplay.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
    But seriously, please tell me why it would be terrible if the Souls games had optional ingame systems that explained the ways you can make them less frustrating to play for those who are less skilled but want to get into the genre. I still haven't heard an answer to that beyond "git gud", "read guides" and "it's not meant for you".
    Read this thread: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144074

    And it's not an odd one out. There are tons of people who are more than happy to offer advice and encouragement to new players if they only ask. It doesn't have to be the game that does that. And it fits with the designers' goal of making Dark Souls a communal experience.
    Last edited by Starker; 6th Jun 2017 at 03:32.

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2014
    Again, Souls has an easy mode. You can summon up to three white phantoms in DS2 and DS3. Summoning can easily break the game. Any boss can be cheesed with this strategy. You can get infinite summoning items by helping other players in their worlds, and doing so will additionally allow you to learn bosses and areas at no risk because you lose nothing if you die as a white phantom in someone else's world.

    I don't understand the argument that summoning is only for advanced players. Most advanced players are less likely to summon because they are handicapping themselves on challenge runs.

    Additionally, getting summoned as a white phantom is almost always the quickest way to farm Souls because you can infinitely run the boss as long as you haven't defeated the boss in your own game. Since bosses are the most valuable source of Souls, you can become hilariously overleveled with this strategy.

    Furthermore, online you can get hints from messages on the ground as well as see bloodstains around deathtraps. This spoils a lot of the fun of exploration, but it's certainly very good for new players looking to avoid common pitfalls! There are spells to reveal more messages and whole covenants dedicated to noobs, "Way of the White" as well as the blue phantoms.
    Last edited by TannisRoot; 6th Jun 2017 at 09:57.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2015
    Responding to the thread title: Yes and no. Some gamers are never going to appreciate challenge unless forced to experience it. Why make things hard? It's inconvenient. You can lose progress. You can get frustrated. Stuck.
    ...Because challenge is integral to game design and gameplay, and where a lot of the engagement, brain stimulation through gameplay and fun comes from.
    On the other hand, newbies to gaming, those with a disability, or those just not very good at games (with no desire to get good) are going to have an easier time with a handicap. Should games compromise for them? Well, should 18-rated movies have PG versions made that remove mature content and make the plot easier to follow? Should mature literature have child-friendly versions published? That's a compromise. Watering down of the original vision. With videogames, it's a lot simpler as it isn't that difficult or cost-intensive to implement difficulty options, but nonetheless it's a compromise. Ultimately though, it's not a big deal as long as the difficulty options do their job properly and appeal to all players of varying skill levels (which they often don't).

    I've always been conflicted on the subject. The hardcore in me says it's vital to not compromise the original vision and classic challenge design principles, and not make people lose sight of the value of challenge(which has already happened thanks to modern games,generally speaking). Without adequate challenge most games just aren't fun, your brain isn't being engaged and game systems aren't working in tandem, unless the game offers something else just as stimulating via the gameplay (which I'm not sure is possible). The fair moderate in me says there's little harm in it, it's easy to implement without being much of a resource drain and it lets those play and have fun where they wouldn't have otherwise.

    But seriously, please tell me why it would be terrible if the Souls games had optional ingame systems that explained the ways you can make them less frustrating to play for those who are less skilled but want to get into the genre. I still haven't heard an answer to that beyond "git gud", "read guides" and "it's not meant for you".
    Half the fun is learning to overcome the challenge yourself, and then the satisfaction when that is achieved.
    Part of the problem is not skill levels, but patience levels and willingness to learn. If one is impatient then "it's not for you" is a good answer.

    Also, Dark Souls Dark Souls Dark Souls. It ain't some new art. Classic Japanese game design through and through. But yes, it's the only modern example and what is contemporary and very popular (deservedly so) so carry on.
    Last edited by GMDX Dev; 6th Jun 2017 at 19:04.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    I'm thinking there's two different categories of difficulty options & features, those that compensate for varying player skill, and those that streamline the gameplay or alter the way you approach the game. The first category would include things like varying health, weapon damage, accuracy, amount of loot, probability of detection by the enemy, etc. The second category would include things like Vita chambers, quest arrows, disabling re-spawning, skipping bosses, turning off puzzles. I don't see any reason to object to the first category, even if they allow people to play lazy on lower difficulty settings than they could handle. But when you introduce options from the second category, you're potentially changing the game experience, and it's reasonable that some developers wouldn't want to do that. For example, disabling re-spawn in SS2 really changes the experience.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Location: Wisconsin
    Did difficulty settings ruin System Shock or Thief? There's your answer.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Edmonton
    Mario Kart 8 on Switch has a mode where your kart can't drive off the rails. It was the only thing that convinced my wife, who never plays video games, to give it a try. If you haven't grown up playing games, they can be really intimidating (apparently), so easy mode was a great way to introduce her to the game, and it didn't take long at all before she decided to turn off all the assists. So thanks to Nintendo's foresight, I am now multiplayer gaming with my SO for the first time in our relationship.

    As long-time gamers we (us forumites) I think sometimes take for granted how obtuse and unintuitive gaming can be for nongamers, so I support all easy modes as long as they're optional and actually fun for whoever wants to use them.

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